FuNkDrSpOt

iTrader: (5)

My '97 Ex civic has warped a 2nd set of rotors in less than 12k miles so I think something might be going out on it. I need new pads anyways so I was just thinking of doing a gsr front and back conversion

I have a couple of questions of what I should look for when I go to buy the swap from a person or shop

1) I know there are serial #'s to tell me what car the brakes belong to....what are they?

2) Are there any serial #'s to tell me what year?

3) Is there anything I should be looking for ( ex: areas that are normally bent, areas that can go bad that I should visually inspect, etc)?

4) What's the avg price of a FULL swap ( inc. prop valve, MC, parking brake lines etc. )?

Big ups to anyone who takes time to answer my questions, I'm just a guy making sure I dont get scammed.

SuperSlow

you can always just look for pics of the calipers online. there are several in the archives from DIY IIRC. Plenty of pictures on ebay.

I doubt that it is the brakes that are actually causing the warpage. 99% of the time it is because of improper and uneven torque on the wheels.

Anyway, if you are set on doing the swap, you really will not need both front and rear. you have discs in the back already, changing to gsr there will make 1% difference.

Anyway, I have seen gsr f+r (usually with trailing arms) go for 4-500. mc for 100-150. You should be able to get just the fronts for 150-200.

GL.

FuNkDrSpOt

iTrader: (5)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SuperSlow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you can always just look for pics of the calipers online. there are several in the archives from DIY IIRC. Plenty of pictures on ebay.

I doubt that it is the brakes that are actually causing the warpage. 99% of the time it is because of improper and uneven torque on the wheels.

Anyway, if you are set on doing the swap, you really will not need both front and rear. you have discs in the back already, changing to gsr there will make 1% difference.

Anyway, I have seen gsr f+r (usually with trailing arms) go for 4-500. mc for 100-150. You should be able to get just the fronts for 150-200.

GL.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I dont have disc in the back but I understand what you meant to say.

Does the MC make any noises or anything before it goes out?

JasonGhostz

The main concern is to identify the parts as appropriate for use. Several models use the same Brake Components, regardless of Year, Make, Model, etc.. Here's a thread that lightly glosses some identifying characteristics of the Rear Brakes.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1564833
Here's a link to a parts listing for the major Brake Components of the 99-00 Civic SI...
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1625394

The GS-R's Front Caliper Piston is slightly larger than what you're currently running. However, the Rotors are the same size as your 97 EX (262mm Diameter). If you want "GS-R" Brakes for the Front, all you need to do is swap Calipers. Unless you also swap out your BMC for a larger Bore, this will effect your pedal feel markedly...

I think swapping out your Front Brakes is unnecessary for you... The rears, that might be another story.

Trailing Arm Bushings - A lot of used assemblies have their bushings either cracked or rotted. You can get replacements, but you need a press to swap them out (OEM/Mugen type), and/or a Torch/Grinder (Energy Suspension type, which some people recommend AGAINST).
Traling Arms - Unfortunately, there's really no way to tell if they are "perfectly straight" without putting them on. Sometimes the end connection points are slightly skewed, but can't be seen as such with the naked eye. This can be remedied by swapping from the Spindle outward, but is a lot more work, and can cause a lot more problems.
Rotors - These can always be resurfaced, as long as they're within spec. However, some Assemblies are so old/rusted that taking off their retaining screws becomes a MFPITA.
Calipers - Rust is a bitch. If you see rust in the threaded holes for the Banjo Bolt and/or Bleeder Screw, it is very likely that you also have rust in your Caliper Bore. If this is the case, you might be better off buying reman'd ones, returning your rusted-out cores for the rebate. I've spent the last 10 months (on and off) restoring my current assembly. Then again, I'm taking my sweet-*** time, and I've spent a lot of time loafing around...

For the Rear...
The TAs, Hubs, Rotors, Calipers, Pads, and Hardware are around $200 (as an assembly), but don't expect them to be in great condition. Parking Brake Cables are anywhere from $40-80 (used/new), and new Hoses (rubber) another $35. You may need to get a new BMC...

It really depends on the condition of the components you're buying, and what you're willing to run with.. anywhere from $250-700 to Eleventy Billion. If you spend more than this, it better be for some mint condition ****, or you better be working to get it that way.

You'll more likely feel it in your Pedal and Brakes before you ever hear anything... Just remember that you cannot touch your MC Hammer, and you might need to change the perspective of your MC Escher. Most MCs will use a microphone to make their noise.

Find out the cause of the problem BEFORE you spend a single cent on any swaps. Are you getting uneven Pad wear? Is it isolated to a single side? Does your Steering Wheel pull to one side when you apply the Brakes? Are your Knuckles bent? Do you have ABS (not necessarily related, but will determine how you go about your Drum/Disc conversion)? You shouldn't spend money on an upgrade before getting everything else in good working order..

Anyway, GL, and let us kno ho it go!
JasonGhostz

Targa250R

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FuNkDrSpOt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My '97 Ex civic has warped a 2nd set of rotors in less than 12k miles</TD></TR></TABLE>
You probably just need to learn how to use brakes properly.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was just thinking of doing a gsr front and back conversion</TD></TR></TABLE>
As opposed to brakes from, say, RS, LS, SE, and GS Integras - which all have the exact same rotors and calipers as the GSR?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1) I know there are serial #'s to tell me what car the brakes belong to....what are they?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Forget serial numbers. You're apparently wanting the 17CL14VN front calipers, regardless of which car they came from. In addition, all rear calipers are the same for '90 and newer 9.5" rear discs.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">2) Are there any serial #'s to tell me what year?</TD></TR></TABLE>
It doesn't matter what year - just get 17CL14VN front calipers.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">3) Is there anything I should be looking for ( ex: areas that are normally bent, areas that can go bad that I should visually inspect, etc)?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Don't worry about bent anything, because all you need to do an Integra brake conversion are front calipers (your EX already has the same 10.3" front rotors as all '90-01 Integras except Type-R), rear hub assemblies, rear rotors, rear calipers, rear soft lines, e-brake cables, master cylinder, and proportioning valve. You don't need any control arms, trailing arms, or knuckles.

JasonGhostz

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Don't worry about bent anything, because all you need to do an Integra brake conversion are front calipers (your EX already has the same 10.3" front rotors as all '90-01 Integras except Type-R), rear hub assemblies, rear rotors, rear calipers, rear soft lines, e-brake cables, master cylinder, and proportioning valve.</TD></TR></TABLE>... & Rear Disc Brake Spindles!
There's still some debate as to the "necessity" of swapping out the PV...
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1446096

(for FunkDrSpot)
To this day, I've spent 10 months trying to get an OEM PN for the Rear Disc Brake Spindles, with no luck. They are typically sold as part of the TA assembly, and unless you want to fabricate your own Caliper Mounting Plate (like AEM's Disc Conversion Kit, a discontinued product), you'll absolutely need this part.

The Spindle is what makes the OEM conversion possible. You don't need to use the TAs to which they're attached, but you will DEFINITELY need the Spindles. Doing this swap from the Spindle outward will give you one less potentially bent part to deal with (the TA), but some have had trouble removing it.

Furthermore, unless you get your car high on a lift, you might have trouble getting the leverage you need to remove the T50 Torx Head Bolts and Nyloc Spindle Nut to do so (DO NOT USE IMPACT TOOLS)... and if you strip them Torx Bolts... MFPITA at least you still have the 8 from your Drum Brake Spindle. The Bolts that mount the Caliper to the Spindle are the same Thread Pitch as the Torx Bolts, and, with a Locking Washer (or 2), might be an appropriate length. The Stress Grade, however, may or may not be the same.

Other than that, just take your time, especially if this is for a DD. There's not a whole lot of everyday-use-performance drop-off by sticking with your Drums. GL!
JasonGhostz

FuNkDrSpOt

iTrader: (5)

Jason, you're my hero.

If there was a 'rep' button, i'd add to yours. Thanks a lot, thats the depth of info that I was looking for and none of the info-less sarcasm I've come to expect on this site sometimes

Again, thanks.

JasonGhostz

No prob on the help, Doc.. I think Targa was just a little late on the button, but he was basically saying the same thing.

I remember what it was like when I first started my project. I did a LOT of reading & searching before I ever posted a question, seeing all the Flamers & Haters & Anti-Noobians...

But anyway, just be sure to figure out what's causing your Rotors to warp, before doing any upgrade work. You can imagine how frustrating it would be to do all that work and still have to deal with that problem.

Hmmm... a vouch thread... Well, I think anyone who searches my posts will find that I rarely do one-liners, and if anything, I'm much too verbose than most people are patient. My previous employment required a clear and unabiguous style of technical writing, and my current job requires the same, albeit more with speech than text...

Thanks for the . I appreciate your appreciation!!
Keep us in the loop as to how things go, and GL!!
JasonGhostz

Targa250R

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JasonGhostz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Furthermore, unless you get your car high on a lift, you might have trouble getting the leverage you need to remove the T50 Torx Head Bolts</TD></TR></TABLE>
A simple way to remove the Torx bolts without stripping them would be to use a manual impact driver (the kind you hit with a hammer - the same tool you'd use to remove rotor screws) with a square-drive Torx bit socket attachment.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But anyway, just be sure to figure out what's causing your Rotors to warp, before doing any upgrade work. You can imagine how frustrating it would be to do all that work and still have to deal with that problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yep, a bad wheel bearing or poor braking technique will just cause future braking vibrations.

JasonGhostz

Here's another link to the Write-Up I did that lists the OEM PN differences between the 99-00 Civic 2DR EX 5MT non-ABS (EJ8) and the 99-00 Civic SI (EM1)...
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1625394

In the least, you can use it as an ad hoc checklist for your Rear Drum To Disc Conversion. The best thing to do is to open up 2 browsers to a place like slhondaparts.com or hondapartsdeals.com, setting the parameters of one browser to your current vehicle, and the other to the 99-00 Civic SI. You can *ALT-Tab* between the two, and see how things line up for their various system components. I think you'll need a different BMC than what you currently have, and potentially other things (since we don't know which 97 EX you have)... Check it, homie!

... Targa250R's suggestion of using an Impact Driver (hand-held) is a great one!! You'll need an impact-ready extension, as the Torx Bolts are recessed about 2" deep from the inside of the TA. You can also prep it by dripping 3-in-1 oil into the threaded holes to help loosen up rust.

Less than a year ago, I knew nothing. But I've learned how to learn, and now I know a little more than nothing...
JasonGhostz

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by A.W.A &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yesterday, I could not even spell "STUPID"... Today... I am one!!</TD></TR></TABLE>