THEJDMWAY

Hello All~

I'm looking to do a small project. I'm undecieded. EK or EG? The EK Looks bad A$$. But the EG is sweet too?@#$%^
Is Their a reason to choose 1 from the other?
The Plans for the car is simple, Hatch/Gsr(maybe)/Turbo= A daily Driver for me.

I'm open to all the idea's/comments...

Thanks In Advance

jdm13733

i would go with the eg

z6hatchboy

search the forums bud, theres a bunch of the same question with pages of answers/ideas
*******look at my eg build, 2nd link in signature. Have had many complements on it


Modified by z6hatchboy at 8:07 PM 10/29/2008

Hill4589

Honestly i have an eg and prefer the EKs looks.

THEJDMWAY

I've done some search's but no true luck.
Hint ~ Limited access do to being a noob.

B18C5-EH2

I posted this here on H-T back in 2002 so a few things such as prices may be different, but you get the idea - begin copy/paste:

*Disclaimer***
I usually refrain from calling all 1992-1995 hatches EG, but for this thread I'm going to and FYI when I say EG I mean the 1992-1995 hatch. I also don't usually call all 1996-2000 hatches EK, but again for this thread I am because I don't feel like calling it EJ whatever.

***End of disclaimer***

Okay I figured I would go ahead and chime in with my thoughts on the whole EG vs. EK thing.

First of all I'm typing this up on notepad at work without access to H-T right now, so forgive me if I repeat something that has already been said in the debate. I'm pulling this from my head mostly since I cannot yet verify specs and whatnot, so if I'm off a bit I'll come back and fix anything I might have missed.

I also want to say that I like both the EG and EK hatches and in no way does anything I say in this post mean that I don't like the EK, but I like the EG better and here's why:

1. Cost. Initial cost of an EG is cheaper than an EK. I personally know of 10 or more locals here in GA that have purchased good bodied, running 1992-1993 hatches for $2,000 or less - I got mine for $300.00 after selling out the B16A that it had in it along with the HalTech stand-alone ECU in it too. Barring miraculous deals though, the EG will be cheaper than the average EK. The older the car is the cheaper the insurance is too.

For the price of an EK I can get an EG and swap in a decent motor like a SOHC VTEC, LS swap, or even a second-gen 170hp B16A for $1850.00 plus $200.00 or so for shipping from any number of importers.

Makes sense?

2. Weight. The EG hatches are lighter. This is a fact that you cannot dispute. I am very weight conscious, and I like knowing that my car with full interior will weigh the same as a gutted EK hatch - gutted EGs will always weigh less than gutted EKs. The amount that you let weight influence your buying decision is probably different from myself and others though. Remember though, lighter = quicker and better braking with less fade if both cars are modded equally.

3. Anything and everything from an Integra pretty much bolts into the EG - not so with the EK. In an EG the entire suspension and brakes can bolt directly up to an EG from an Integra. This gives the EG owner 1994-2001 to look for sus and brake stuff. The EK will take a touch of hodge podging in the rear because Integra rear LCAs do not interchange.

4. While we're talking Integra stuff, let's talk swaps. Swaps in the EG are simply easier. You can bolt any hydro-trannied B-Series into an EG and pretty much keep any USDM engine harness too - OBD1 or OBD2 harnesses will plug right up in the EG. Not so with the EK since they all have the long-*** engine harness that goes through the firewall. EK needs either to use the stock engine harness and add plugs and wires, or convert it all to EX-specs. The EG will use either the Integra mounts (timing cover side mount and front and rear Integra brackets are a must) and the rest can be stock Civic mounts. You will have to mix and match mounts for the EK. Again if you don't mind the extra effort, then go ahead.

If you're lucky enough to get a 1992 Civic or any 1993-1995 VX, Si, or EX then the wiring for a swap is super easy for any USDM motor and JDM motors aren't that hard either. My USDM B18C5 swap PLUGGED in and I did not have to wire one single wire because I run a re-chipped kenji P28 ECU.

5. EG is OBD1 while the EK is OBD2. Not a big deal? Well depending on where you live yes it can be a big deal. "But I can just buy a convertor harness and an OBD1 ECU in my EK, right?" Well not in certain parts of the country where emissions tests require a connection with an OBD2 scanner and it needs to communicate with an OBD2 ECU.

OBD2 limits the range of motors you can use. How are you going to smog a JDM motor? Damn you'll miss all those great deals on 1994-1995 motors and 1996-under JDM motors too! See what I mean? An EG allows you to run any OBD1 or OBD2 motor with either the OBD1 or OBD2 ECU if you like. Since the EG is OBD1 though, why bother? Can you say $1850.00 JDM SiR/SiRII second-gen 170hp B16A swap directly into a 1992-1995 hatch? Hell the price difference between the EG and EK is probably more than that!

OBD1 is more tuner friendly. Want to argue with that? Go argue with Hondata, Spoon, Mugen, Jun, etc. who all use the OBD1 P28 ECU to base their ECU stuff off of. Also to go OBD1 in an EK will cost a pretty hefty amount of loot. The jumper harness will be roughly $250.00 or so and a re-chipped P28 is about $300.00, right?

6. Lowering an EG is less hassles. I'm crazy, right? No actually with an EG you can lower it and choose a few cheaper front end camber correction kits. EKs require the purchase of all-new upper A-arms with camber adjusters in them. EGs can use the cheaper and just as effective upper "knuckle" kits that cost 1/2 as much. Plus the EK comes from the factory with almost full negative rear camber already - meaning after you lower it and you try to correct the rear camber you will need much more correction, and you're more likely to need to roll the fenders because EKs are more proned to scrubbing than an EG with the same exact wheel/tire combo.

How do I know? Because I've done plenty of lowered EG and EK alignments with the famous Rota/205-50-15 Falken Azenis combo, and the EKs are always the ones that scrub more which requires raising the car up or making it have more negative camber than Honda allows, which is -2.0 for the EK in the rear and -1.3 for the EG. This is from experience, not hearsay.

7. If you like a factory moonroof, rear disks, cruise control, and a 125hp SOHC VTEC motor then the 1992-1995 Si is your choice. EK never had anything better than a DX to offer. This doesn't mean much to most people though - myself included.

8. Black interior standard on many EG hatches. This is not so with the EK. Hope you like light grey only, because that's all you'll get. I personally love the hell out of the EG black interior. You like light grey or even bluie? The EG offers that too.

9. Stock seats in the EK sit you up too high and have absolutely no lateral support. For those who cannot buy seats, the EG has much better stock seats IMO in terms of hold and comfort. The EK style seats feel like Accord seats. While the EG seats might be uglier with the unibar headrest, they do support/hold better in the turns.

10. All USDM EKs had dual airbags. So what? Well if you remove the airbags for weight reduction then you'll have a gaping hole in the passenger side of the dashboard. 1992-1993 EGs had one airbag, making it as easy as locating a 1992-1993 dash to fill the hole where your airbag would have been. Airbag delete trays are available for the EK, but they are hard to find.

Let's talk body real quick, shall we? Most of this will be factual, but some of it will have my own personal opinion injected too.

1. Body parts and pricing. I called the local Honda dealer and asked them about list pricing on a bunch of common body parts for the 1992-1995 hatch, the 1996-1998 hatch, and the 1999-2000 hatch for comparison.

My list included:

Hood
Fenders
Bumper Covers front and rear
Headlights
Corner lenses for the 1992-1995 for fair comparison vs. the 1996-2000 integrated assy.

The 1992-1995 and 1996-1998 were only $2.15 apart, but the 1999-2000 was about $115.00 more than the 1992-1995 hatch stuff. Oh yeah and add in the costs of the 1996-2000 grille crap and it's easily over $200.00 to fix an EK type front end over an EG.

Once I get the comprehensive list faxed over I'll list the various parts and prices - these are normal list prices straight from Honda. I'm interested to see which parts costed more for each model and which ones were the cheapest.

2. The EG had no distinct exterior changes from 1992-1995 like the EK had. This comes in handy when looking for used parts because it gives you a total of 4 years to look through as opposed to just 3 for the 1996-1998 hatch or worse, just 2 years for the 1999-2000 hatch. The very distinct front end splits from 1998-1999 on the hatch may be a good or bad thing depending on who you ask. there are some who don't like the 1996-1998 front end as evidenced by the common 1996-1998 front end conversions to 1999-2000 specs, while some like the 1996-1998 style because they can use the JDM wrap-around bumpers. I personally like the 99-00 style better, but I must admit that the wrap-around bumpers look great with the SiR-type front lip in matching black.

3. The EG was available without side moldings in the CX and VX models which some may love, while all EKs had side moldings which some may not like.

4. The EG had a black strip that ran along the entire bottom of the car including the front bumper, side skirts, and rear bumper. Now I know this sounds picky, but I really dig that a lot. I'm all about flow, so the EG is better in this department IMO. Why? Because the EK doesn't have the black strip on the front or rear bumper covers, yet the side skirt is unpainted black plastic. Unless you paint the side skirts it looks weird IMO, but I'd still like a black trim all the way around the bottom like the EG has if you're running unpainted black side moldings. The 1996-1998 hatches with the SiR-style black front lip look killer, but then you get to the rear bumper cover and it doesn't flow well with the rest of the bottom of the car that's unpainted black plastic. 1999-2000 hatches pretty much limit you to buying a pre-painted Si front lip that you either have repainted, but then it doesn't match the black side skirts. In other words in order to make the bottom of the EK flow better, you'll be painting some stuff.

5. The 1992-1995 hatch has separate headlight and corner lens assemblies. The 1996-up has an integrated headlight and corner assembly. I will not even touch on the looks aspect, but I will say that it's easier to deal with rock chips in a 1992-1995 hatch when all you might have to do is replace a corner lens if a rock hits it. Not so for the 1996-2000 hatch. If you catch a rock on the very corner of the turn signal, you're buying an entire much more expensive headlight/corner combo assembly. Not a big deal to some, but after seeing a lot of broken corner lenses on 1992-1995 hatches those $40.00 fake visions look awefully better than having to buy an expensive-*** 1996-2000 entire headlight assembly.

6. The 1992-1995 Civic does not have a front grille in between the front bumper cover and hood, but the 1996-2000 hatch does. Looks aside, in the event of an accident the 1996-2000 Civic parts will cost more because you have the grille molding, and the grille itself to replace. Now in terms of looks I like the non-grilled 1992-1995 front better because it looks more sleek to me, but that's strictly my opinion.

How much do those grille parts cost?

1996-1998 - $76.00 for the grille, molding, and emblem.
1999-2000 - $131.00 for the same stuff

Now in terms of stock colors available, the EK or EG might have the upper hand depending on who you ask.

The 1992-1995 hatch came in:

2 different light teals - Tahitian Green and Aztec Green
1 darker teal - Paradise Blue-Green
Dark Blue - Harvard Blue
Dark Grey - Phamntom Grey
White - Frost white
Red - Milano Red
Lighter Blue - Captiva Blue
Black (Si only) - Granada Black

The 1996-up EK style hatch came in:

Light Green - Midori Green
Dark Purple - Dark Amythest Pearl
Better then EG black - Flamenco Black Pearl
White - Frost white, right?
Red - Milano and Roma, right?
Silver - Vogue Silver Metallic

So IMO it's a toss-up on which generation has the upper hand in terms of colors. The EG has the bad-*** blues and a pimp dark grey, while the EK has the love it or hate it green and a bad-*** Silver. I have had both Granada black (stock 1992-1995 Si black) and then Flamenco Black (had my 1992 Si repainted that color) and IMO the Flamenco is much better - that's the EK black.

The EK had the questionable Dark Amythest Pearl while the EG had 3 variations on teal. Some like these colors while others hate them.

Then again if a total color change is in your plans who gives a damn, right? I took my favorite O.E color from the 1996-up hatch, Vogue Silver Metallic, and repainted my 1992 CX that color.

Now if I had to list any plusses for the EK, it would probably go like this:

1. Newer so more quality hatches available with lower miles. If you have the loot and you want the newest car possible, the EK is for you. Get a super low mileage 2000 EK and don't worry about a repaint. Also there's less chance that you'll get a rusted newer EK then the older EGs.

2. The Civic Type R in Japan. Really cool JDM CTR goodies to make the EK better. O.E quality is unmatched, so those bad-*** CTR body parts like headlights, bumpers, lips, etc. are definately a plus.

3. EKs are less likely to be totalled in a not so major accident. Egs are older, cheaper, and thus less valuable to the insurance company, so in the event of a halfway serious accident you have a higher chance of getting to keep your EK. This comes in handy if you have a swap or a shitload or parts on the car that you'd like to keep from having to transfer onto another shell. I know that if my EG is totalled or worse, stolen my check will be not so great.

4. *IF* you are a JDM buff then the EK might appeal more to you. Why? Because there are more NEW JDM EK parts available than the EG. Plus the JDM EK parts really stick out above the EG parts. Like the headlights, side moldings, rear spoiler, and especially the JDM 1996-1998 wrap-around molding bumpers. The EG stuff is hard to find new, and although the used stuff is cheaper than the used EK stuff it doesn't look or perform much better than the USDM counterpart.

Example?

I wanted new headlights for my EG. I could not find brand new JDM plastic ones, so Igot USDM ones because they were new. I like the plastic ones better for weight, but I don't like the liklihood of them looking really used.


Overall when we compare mods and parts avaliability, the EG and EK are about the same. Most anything you can get in carbon fiber for an EG can be had for an EK too, and vice versa.

So there you have it. My discertation on the EG vs. EK debate. A little of my info was tainted with some opinions, but they were usually based on facts from what I've seen and experienced first-hand. In closing I'm still an EG guy for sure, but again I'm saying that I do like the EK. The EK might require more work and cost more, but to some people it's worth it.

If I had an unlimited budget I'd still build an EG based on my personal opinions in terms of styling, and of course because of weight. That's just my opinion though.

...End of copy and paste.


Modified by B18C5-EH2 at 8:37 PM 10/29/2008


Modified by B18C5-EH2 at 8:48 AM 11/3/2008

z6hatchboy

Awesome stuff .

1988_96hb

the only thing i can add to b18c5-eh2's post is that it seems like every eg ive driven's driver side seat belt has problems retracting while ive never seen ek's have that problem.

BryanM.

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1988_96hb &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the only thing i can add to b18c5-eh2's post is that it seems like every eg ive driven's driver side seat belt has problems retracting while ive never seen ek's have that problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>

My '92 and '96 have that issue...


Modified by mcvtec at 9:21 PM 10/29/2008

z6htch

Hey my seat belt is like that on my 92 cx hatch lol.

z6hatchboy

interesting, none of mine or ones i've ridden in has had that problem, which is only 4 though

jdm_sir2

You should by my car it's for sale! 96 EJ8

And heres some ideas you can do with it drop some vitara pistons and eagle rods mill the head and get urself a nice turbo like a GT28r or a gt2871r and up the boost like 15-16psi and you"ll have one hell of a bad *** car!

THEJDMWAY

WOW... That was such a great Review... Thanks for taking the time out and giving such great imput...
EG

Thanks again....

jdmeg6118

iTrader: (1)

I have had both"98 Dx "00 Si,"94 Ex and my current car "95 Dx

Which do i prefer??? The 92-95 Civic's for many reasons.

B18C5-EH2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1988_96hb &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the only thing i can add to b18c5-eh2's post is that it seems like every eg ive driven's driver side seat belt has problems retracting while ive never seen ek's have that problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The owners of "every" EG you've driven need to take their cars into a Honda dealership and have the driver's seatbelt/retractor replaced for free then. Honda doesn't mess around with safety. I had a seatbelt replaced in my 1992 Si HB because it would lock in randomly as if you were slamming on brakes, so they replaced the belt for free.

It was literally the ONLY time that car had ever been to a Honda dealership - free lifetime seatbelt replacement.

sintype

get them both.

Adnan5224

get the EG i used to have one wish i would have never sold it...EK would definitely be second choice....

Rok_Stok

I like the EG interior more, it reminds me of that period with Super Nintendos and Mortal Kombat.

kp

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1988_96hb &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the only thing i can add to b18c5-eh2's post is that it seems like every eg ive driven's driver side seat belt has problems retracting while ive never seen ek's have that problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've had that in a few cars I've owned regardless of car company. I find the build-up of skin oils (yeah kinda gross/wierd) sort of stiffens the belt considerably making it harder for it to go through the tight bend at the top. I have found it very effective to unbolt the belt at the bottom, pull out the entire belt and put a clamp at the top to stop it from retracting, grab a bucket of hot water and a good cleaner and scrub the hell out of the whole belt. Comes out clean and after a few days once it's softened a little, works like new.

Works for me.

EDIT: Ps. my 96 EK has this problem. Soon to be fixed.

THEJDMWAY

now the hunt is on.... eg here I come.... LOL


Thanks again for the great insite....

deadazleep

damn, glad i ended up with a 93 Si, didnt realize the advantages and disadvantages of both, but having had a 99 ej8 before i can understand everything in that comparison. I have yet to experience the seat belt issue but B18C5-EH2 is the lifetime replacement for only the 1st owner or for the the life of the car

95vxtealhatch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1988_96hb &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the only thing i can add to b18c5-eh2's post is that it seems like every eg ive driven's driver side seat belt has problems retracting while ive never seen ek's have that problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You can get the seat belt retractors changed out for free from the factory. I did it on my 95 vx and it cost nothing. Its mandatory that the factory replace "saftey" parts like the seat belts and buckles.

matt_honda95

IMO the EK looks better not as egg shaped but id go for the EG for the fact that they dont weigh much and OBDI , with a stock GS-R swap it would be pretty quick. And your planning to turbo, that thing will melt faces on a dialy basis.

i have a 95 EJ1 DX and i have the same problem when i take the seat belt off. harnesses are the way to go, but then you have to get seats and money is a problem.


Modified by matt_honda95 at 5:53 PM 10/30/2008

NOFX

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1988_96hb &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the only thing i can add to b18c5-eh2's post is that it seems like every eg ive driven's driver side seat belt has problems retracting while ive never seen ek's have that problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>
There's actually a TSB out for that on 6th gens too.

I've never had the problem, but when my boyfriend uses the same seatbelt it always ends up twisted around and clunking against the interior of the car the next time I go to drive it. Drives me nuts.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The owners of "every" EG you've driven need to take their cars into a Honda dealership and have the driver's seatbelt/retractor replaced for free then. Honda doesn't mess around with safety. I had a seatbelt replaced in my 1992 Si HB because it would lock in randomly as if you were slamming on brakes, so they replaced the belt for free.

It was literally the ONLY time that car had ever been to a Honda dealership - free lifetime seatbelt replacement.

</TD></TR></TABLE>
This man speaks the truth. :thumbsup:

As far as 5th gen or 6th gen for a daily, it's going to depend on personal opinion.

I'm not a big fan of 5th gen interiors, for example (there are much worse ones out there though).

I like 6th gen colors better. But 5th gens have some colors I like too, like Opal Green (but it's '92-'93 sedan only).

5th gens are more likely to rust, though this might not be an issue to you or might not be a common issue in your region.

I like being able to plug my scan tool into my '98 to read any codes. Well, actually, it's never thrown a code. But if I ever have a check engine light I like that I don't need to fish out a plug from anywhere. Then again, I'm a lot more into "stock"/OE than a lot of others. A USDM engine swap from the same approximate year (or newer) is fine for me.

I know B18C5-EH2 already mentioned it, but 6th gen hatches in the US don't really have much as far as power options. No moonroof. No power windows. No power locks. Hell, the CX came standard without a radio even. I could see the same happening for a 5th gen CX, but I haven't checked. Either way, the options are there in the Si.

That doesn't matter much to an option ***** like myself though. I like the 6th gen bodies enough that I would transplant any options I might want. It would make it that much more unique in the US.

6th gens in Canada had an optional passenger air bag tray. So you can always buy one of those from the internet if you choose to remove your passenger airbag. I like having airbags though.

To correct B18C5, the 6th gen red hatches in the US were all Roma. There were no Milano US hatches.

Midori was '96 only (only hatches).
Dark Amethyst Pearl was '97-'99 only (only hatches).
Granada Black Pearl was '96-'97.
Flamenco Black Pearl was '98-'00.
Frost White was '00 only.
Roma Red and Vogue Silver Metallic were available for all five years.

I read B18C5-EH2's post and based a lot of this off of his post because I'm ADDing badly right now. Tired.

I would still choose the 6th gen over the 5th gen though. Some of the main reasons for that would be I know more about 6th gens and there are more stock options available for them.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
A 5-lug conversion on an EG bolts right up from the ITR, but not so for the EK because of the rear longer LCAs. Bolt-on stuff makes the EG less headache-proned.

Modified by B18C5-EH2 at 8:37 PM 10/29/2008</TD></TR></TABLE>

Surely, you jest. The 5 lug bolts onto the EK just fine.

A non stolen USDM ITR 5 lug can be hard to get.
A JDM ITR 5 lug requires 36mm axles.
A JDM CTR 5 lug is the same as the USDM ITR 5 lug...it's the one you'll probably get. Easier to find/get than non stolen USDM ITR 5 lugs. They have the 32mm axles that all USDM 92-00 civics and 91-01 integras have.

That being said...the CTR's 5 lug actually bolts onto the "ek" better. The "EG" will require an alignment afterwards since the part on the spindle where the tie rods go is different from egs to eks. Since the CTR is an EK, the geometry is the same for USDM 96-00 civics.

Not that the OP is going to nessecarily do a 5 lug.

I think that EGs are nice...but not quite as nice as EKs. The interior on the EG is...gross. The EK has a much more refined interior.

The EGs are much more prone to rust. It seems like there are much fewer rust bucket EKs than EGs. I realize that the EK is newer...but a 96 is only one year newer than a 95.

The EG performance is better. The integra stuff does bolt on...but who cares about bolting on ITR RLCAs? That's not a big deal. The rest of the good DC2 stuff goes onto EKs also. Almost just as easily.

Eg parts are easily available in junkyards. This is not always true for EKs.

Integra engines are two motor mounts away from being bolt on in EKs. You can use all integra mounts on EGs
.
The EK's completely removable harness is REALLY nice. REALLY REALLY nice...especially if you're wiring in VTEC and knock and other stuff. Way easier.

Honestly, the OP doesn't seem like he's using the car for anything that would take advantage of the EG's performance advantage.

He's going to DD it. So it comes down to a very simple question:

Which one does the OP think looks better? Interior/exterior, etc.

The ease of swapping the EK is only incrementally harder than the EG. I've swapped a few of both. I'll be swapping one of each this weekend into next week. I'd say the difficulty delta is negligible.

I think the EK is just nicer over all. More refined...if there is such a thing in older civics. IMO, it looks 100X better too.