HondaFanatic708

Quick question... My B-series has adjustable cam gears and I am assuming that I should 0 out the advance/retard and then adjust valve clearance. Once the valve clearance is completed I can re-tune my advance/retard. Someone I don't really trust with cars told me I can adjust the valve clearance with the cams advanced or retarded. I kept insisting that it would throw everything off, he kept insisting that it wouldn't. Anyone able to back either of us up? Thanks for the help...

civic-si-2000

I just read about this in Honda Tuning. Zero them out first. Then advance/retard after the vavle job.

HondaFanatic708

Thats what I figured, like I said I wouldn't even trust the kid drivin' my car.

axhandler

It shouldn't matter because you adjust the valve lash when the piston is a TDC.

Edit: I take that back...When you advance/retard the cam you move the lobe ahead/behind TDC so it will mess with the valve lash.

However, if you make sure that you adjust the valves with the piston at TDC then it wont matter if the cam is advanced or retarded.

HondaFanatic708

Look at it like this. If they are not at 0 degrees when you adjust the valves then you are actually adjusting them to a slightly different spec. than you think since the camshaft will be advanced or retarded, ie the peek of the lobe would not be lined up properly. You may not have issues since it will only be slightly off. I personally wouldn't adjust lash with cam gears tuned. If you do then you could be limiting the power potential in the motor and could cause some internal issues. Remember these are INTERFERANCE motors. But hey if you feel comfortable cutting corners because it SEEMS alright, then be my guest. I will zero mine out every time.

JDMlyfestyle

^^^^^^ guy knows his ish

HondaFanatic708

Thanks bro, I do my best to be a walking, talking Honda dictionary. I do know a lot but I still don't know ****, if you know what I mean. I don't think I will ever be done learning about the details involved in tuning these motors. But my knowledge grows exponentially thanks to Honda-Tech. If I had 3 hands they would get . Way to go!!!

axhandler

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HondaFanatic708 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Look at it like this. If they are not at 0 degrees when you adjust the valves then you are actually adjusting them to a slightly different spec. than you think since the camshaft will be advanced or retarded, ie the peek of the lobe would not be lined up properly. You may not have issues since it will only be slightly off. I personally wouldn't adjust lash with cam gears tuned. If you do then you could be limiting the power potential in the motor and could cause some internal issues. Remember these are INTERFERANCE motors. But hey if you feel comfortable cutting corners because it SEEMS alright, then be my guest. I will zero mine out every time. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You have a good point. You also disconnect the negative terminal on your battery when you change your oil right?

However, it is still possible to adjust the valve lash while the cam is "tuned". You can remove the plug, place a wire (or long screw driver) down it so it rides up and down with the piston as you rotate the crank. This will tell you exactly where TDC is and that is where you should adjust the lash. I don't believe that's cutting a corner.

I fully expect someone to disagree with me though, so fire away.

HondaFanatic708

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by axhandler &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You have a good point. You also disconnect the negative terminal on your battery when you change your oil right?

However, it is still possible to adjust the valve lash while the cam is "tuned". You can remove the plug, place a wire (or long screw driver) down it so it rides up and down with the piston as you rotate the crank. This will tell you exactly where TDC is and that is where you should adjust the lash. I don't believe that's cutting a corner.

I fully expect someone to disagree with me though, so fire away.

</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes that is certainly a way to tell if you are at TDC or not, but we aren't concerned with the pistons being at TDC. When you line up the TDC marks on the cam gears you will be at TDC. The point is if you are at TDC and say your exhaust is retarded by 3 degrees then when you adjust valve lash you will be adjusting it 3 degrees off of the "peak" on the camshaft. I mean this slight angle SHOULDN'T effect anything but if you have some aggressive cam profiles there may be a major (.010+) difference. I not sure if you will ever grasp this concept. The motor being at TDC has nothing to do with the head position. If you don't zero out your adjustments on the cam gears you will be adjusting the valve lash at X degrees (advance or retard) from where you SHOULD. Keep adjusting valve lash with your cam gears tuned. Please let us know how long it takes for your **** to blow up... Happy Tuning!!!

axhandler

Your right...I'm wrong...Your pretty....I'm ugly...

I'll let you know when mine "blows up".

HondaFanatic708

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by axhandler &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Your right...I'm wrong...Your pretty....I'm ugly...

I'll let you know when mine "blows up". </TD></TR></TABLE>
You don't have to be so hard on yourself. If you sit down and really think about it, we are right. It should be common sense in the tuning world. That is if you understand how an internal combustion engine works... LOL, your just cracking me up now! Happy Tuning!

axhandler

Yeah...that's what I did. I was at work when I was trying to think about it yesterday. The fluorescents in here kill me...anyway.

Yes, the way I adjusted mine wasn't technically correct. I adjusted them with the cam 3 degrees off. This will probably result in a slightly (.001"-.005") tighter clearance than I was aiming for. Because, like you said, when the cam is advanced or retarded from the zero setting it will not be at the thinnest part of the lobe when the crank is at TDC. But the whole feeler gauge process has some inherent error involved unless you've done enough valve adjustments to "become one" with your feelers.

I mean...it's so simple...good discussion and happy tuning to me this weekend when I re-adjust my valvage.

HondaFanatic708

Yes the probable error margin is small and yes I'm sure your motor will be fine. I just don't like there being any margin for error when on work on things such as this. Now don't get me wrong, I am not tuning GOD, I do break ****, and a lot of it too. But I always try to do it right to avoid breaking anymore than I normally would have. Enjoy your weekend valve adjsutment!

lucasbkellner

Wow, I might have never thought about this. Good to know

slipstreamsi

so get your valves adjusted when you are at 0 degrees then advance/retard them correct? (got kinda lost, im half asleep).

axhandler

Yes