W95civicEXcoupe

Hello there. Well, I may as well ask, as I am interested to hear the opinions and reasons.. I have one bolt left to go, this the mutilated one. (Head bolt.) What I am going to do today, is, back out the bolt I had started to put in.. Doesn't want to turn, seems to have a lot of resistance. So I will re-tap (chase?) the threads, just before, then blow the hole out with air...

My question is, shall I stick to using only motor oil on the bolt? Or, would something like white lithium grease, or perhaps transmission fluid or Marvel Mystery Oil (?) be acceptable. It is my understanding that the motor oil helps hold the tension of the bolt in the hole.

It's a 1995 D15Z1 engine, this on the last part of my head and head gasket replacement. Turned the engine, it's not seized up. Block deck and head and block mating surfaces checked to be flat, and clean. New gasket. Did not get new bolts. Having issue with one bolt, threads mutilated really, really badly.

I have both spray-on White Lithium Grease and the kind that comes in the grey Permatex bottle, if that turns out to be OK to use. I also have the motor oil, MMO, and trans fluid. I also have Loctite Red. (though I have heard that is useless on head bolts, and shouldn't go on one.)

Asking because I have read different things and seen different things on Youtube videos of do-it-yourself helps (hence the question about grease, I am fact-checking.) Any replies are appreciated.

I do hope I asked this as straightforward as possible. I would love to receive productive input, and I believe that we can.

Going to work on it after I take my nap, just got home from work. It's still in the driveway.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Motor oil goes into a motor. So head bolts are lubed with motor oil.

24TEN

iTrader: (2)

Post a pic of the new bolt.

W95civicEXcoupe

I will

Next to the "old bolt"

Just a little backstory: The drill did so much damage, that, it seemed to have took away enough of the hole that the original Honda bolts didn't want to thread.. at all, in any way. Therefore, I have to sort of "Go up to an M12.." And, from my understanding, using a whole new bolt would be better than a "Time-sert." And I know the difference between a "Time-Sert" (actual carbon INSERT, or sleeve) and a Heli-Coil (looks like a wind of wire.)

I do also need to inform you that I went M12 tap in already.. nice and slow, backing it out. May even run it through one more time.

24TEN

iTrader: (2)

That's what happens when you try to chase threads using a f*cking drill going full speed and holding it at its bottomed out position for like a minute or whatever you did.

W95civicEXcoupe

The street urchin did that. Not me.

I'm getting that picture up for you soon, brother.

W95civicEXcoupe

24TEN

iTrader: (2)

LOL true it wasn't you directly that did the damage there.

Thank you for posting the picture as well. I'm viewing this on my phone so I can't say for sure but it looks like the non threaded portion (shank?) has a larger diameter than the threaded part. Can you see why this is important?

For anyone else that is viewing this thread, the OP has not disclosed that he has retapped the block for this new larger bolt with the head INSTALLED. This means that the head is now threaded too. Also worth mentioning is that this bolt hole is in the middle and is now going to be the LAST bolt to be torqued down in the sequence. Think about it...

W95civicEXcoupe

The bolt is the same thickness from top to bottom.

I have to cut/saw the "crown" under it so that it will clear the hole right in front of it.

I'm working on finding a socket to fit the head of it.. I'm very much trying to make it work.

Motor oil to lube it?

98vtec

moly lube

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

That...doesn't look like a head bolt. That looks like a bolt from a hardware store.

24TEN

iTrader: (2)

If it's the same thickness top to bottom then it still confirms my hunch. Again think about it, what happens to the bolt as soon as it runs out of thread while you're trying to make it pass through the threaded head?

And good call "NotARaCist" I wasn't sure if it wasn't even worth bringing up the material difference given the OP's unwillingness to listen.

To put it shortly, that bolt will not pass thru the head until you remove the head and make that threaded hole into a thru hole again. Get it? It needs to pass THRU the head via a THRU HOLE.

TomCat39

NotARacist beat me to it.

Looks like a grade 5 hardware store bolt to me too.

Going the M12 is being very ingenuitive. However not getting a top grade bolt will be the death of you.

I believe head bolts are a bare minimum SAE grade 8/Metric Grade 10.9 if not the Metric Grade 12.9.

You may need to go to a specialty company like Fastenal to get the higher grade M12 bolt.

And use motor oil not lithium grease. Spec is based on the friction modification of motor oil, not grease.

It's my understanding the oil is not for tension retention but for setting a specific fiction coefficient for the torquing process.

I disagree with 24Ten that this bolt, being in the middle should be last to torque. I believe it should still go in the same sequence but make sure to do a 4 step process similiar to the TSB for the 88-95 non vtec motors.

That's just my opinion. Maybe 24Ten can enlighten us as to why he believes you should leave that bolt for last even though doing so will severely change the torsion (twisting forces) on the head.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

That bolt shouldn't even be used, period. I wouldn't even trust a 10.9 for a head bolt. The head shouldn't be used, after how it was fucked with. The block shouldn't be used, after the dumb **** from the last thread. This whole thing is destined for failure, because OP refuses to do things the correct way.

W95civicEXcoupe

Guys. It's a Grade 10.9 bolt.

I also was considering "making the head a thru hole" again.. I think I maybe have idea how to remove the threads there.

I'm gonna re-read..

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

Well, I see nothing has changed - still not listening to anyone's advice.

W95civicEXcoupe

So the threads in the head were a big thing then, shouldn't have been there. I have now heard this from a 2nd source (24TEN) .. Of course after.

Maybe just maybe I can smooth out the threads in head.. maybe with.. hmm.

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Thanks for ALL THE input so far.

If I didn't care, I wouldn't be trying this again.

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Can you lighten up, please. We are discussing what to do ON THIS ENGINE. Don't feel hurt I didn't change it as you said to do.

Please.

Thanks!? (One thing at a time, sir.)

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Or, I could steal this guy's engine. But then I would be no better than whoever stole my car in Newark..



I gotta win the Hole Games, man.

24TEN

iTrader: (2)

"TomCat39" - I'll keep it short, without even thinking about the specific sequence the basic rule of thumb is start in the middle and work your way outward. That's why I said think about it, everything else is already torqued. I wasn't saying he should do it last, I'm saying he's doing it last.

Quoted with...quotations LOL


Sorry for any confusion, I'm responding while at Disneyland and there are tons of kids kicking the **** out of my legs with parents watching them do it with no f*cks given.

EDIT: FWIW going up to a bigger bolt wasn't the problem, the execution of every step to accomplish this was completely wrong. You used a drill with the first tap and went to town, you attempted to install a helicoil without actually tapping the block (and I guess head) for the first helicoil, now you've upsized the bolt/thread right through the head, and everything you've done is biting you in the ***. The only way I see any of this being salvaged is if you remove the head and drill thru that one hole with a bit big enough to allow the new bolt to pass through it freely. My gut tells me you will attempt to do this with the head installed though so make sure this time you don't blow all the new shrapnel directly into the head again.

Caoboy

How did you re-tap the hole?

Explain what you did.

W95civicEXcoupe

First, I took a standard - length M12×1.75 tap, and threaded it down as far as I could get it to go. Made sure it was straight up and down. Got it as submerged as I could. As pointed out, THROUGH THE hole on the head. I put the head on to move myself along, progress-wise. I could not bring myself to un-do it, as, already torqued, would be another brandy new head gasket wasted. *** hole assistant I am starting to think was sabotaging my cars. That would have been the third purchased head gasket. So I did it with it on..

I have the video up on YouTube so you can see exact. About a week back

On Youtube, I was chided. A poster said I only "threaded a hole that did not need to be threaded." Told me I "did not get to the block." Upon hearing this, I ordered an extra long M12x1.75 tap, and tapped until it bottomed out not forcing it, but confirming it would turn no more. So the block is now threaded. And the whole hole is now M12x1.75.

That is on YouTube as well, with three thumbs downs.

IF YOU ARE ASKING ME HOW I DID IT.. slowly, and carefully.

I then looked for a bolt of appropriate length, and this was literally the closest I found. Purchased on EBAY from a hardware store in Kenosha, Wisconsin.

I am now looking for a file to smooth the threads in the head only, to make it a through hole.. and, as tempting as brake grease lube is, l I am thinking of running the tap one more time before that.. then cleaning it.. then, maybe just oil on it like the other bolts.

I got an 18mm socket to turn it, 3/4" was slipping.. so, this leads me to where I am now.

Reference, can show you better than I can tell you:

1. Into the head


2. Into the block

Caoboy

So...you just sprayed all those metal shavings further into the engine?

24TEN

iTrader: (2)

^Yes.

tony_2018

#1 Thats not a ****** head bolt
#2 Thats not the ****** proper way to rethread the hole

Go ****** watch more youtube videos.

tamboo

Former User

Oh man W95. Going downhill quickly. Tech forums really aren't your thing. Just stay in GDD.