Metal Head

So im curiouse, Why don't I see alot of UDP threads for hondas? Do they not give a good deal of power?

Im curiouse, if you guys do like UDP, what would be a good one for my D15B with P/S crank, no A/C ?

I seen some on ebay, but there usually the lower quality ones. What do yall reccomend? Im not sure where to buy stuff other than ebay, passwordjdm.com or jdmshit.com

Eran

iTrader: (1)

You don't see a lot because most aftermarket crank pulleys are either:

A) not properly balanced
B) not properly dampened
C) both

JShull

I'm there with Eran on this one.

Don't the Unorthodox ones have problems with messing the oil pump up or is that just a myth and I have been awake far too long?

The one that I have actually heard was decent was by fluidamper, I think. :scratches head:

Metal Head

Hmmm. interesting, Id like to hear more about this.......


off the subject, but please keep it on subject, I see AEM makes pulley kits, are these worth the $75-100 on them?

civic steve

I started a thread about this once. However, for whatever reason, I was thinking "Harmonic Resonator", rather than inquiring about Harmonic Balancers.

From what I gather, UD pullies are usually lacking that rubber dampener (harmonic balancer), as Eran stated, which allows more stress to occur. The fact it's an inline engine, and all the force is exerted downward, helps wear out parts faster when the pullies aren't properly dampened.

I've heard on Subaru Boxer engines, lacking that damper isn't as detrimental, since the engine's layout naturally is more balanced. But that's getting off the point. EJ series engines obviously have little in common Honda engines.

Anyway, this is all what I've read, so don't hold me to be dead accurate.

Surfjunkie44

The truth on pullies... I researched this stuff years ago and ended up running a full setup of Unorthodox Racing (UR) pullies on my H22 Accord. It allows the motor to rev faster basically. At the time I had looked at the two leading companies that offered pullies: AEM & UR... AEM's were pieces of sh*t. I forget all my reasons why but after spending over a month and half worrying about toasting my motor and who's was best I went with UR and never looked back. They made a difference... $375 worth of difference is debatable IMO.

As for the D15... don't waste your money on pullies if you don't have a VTEC motor. I'm not f-ing around; you will be pissed with the (lack of) results. If you have a hard-on to go do some sort of pulley setup, especially in the case of the D15, then simply purchase the assessory pullies. Oil pumps in the B and D-series motors are not as strong as in the F and H-series motors (literally missing a screw) and hence have the possibility of being more prone to failure (lawyer jargon, haha!). If your motor is in good condition then you don't have to worry about it, but if your motor has had the ever living dog-**** beatin' out of it then you might want to reconsider purchasing pullies unless you feel like purchasing an external oil pump setup.

As for not being properly balanced or dampened... yeah, TPS reports? I don't mean to flame but you have no idea what you are talking about. I'm just saying don't post unless you have something useful to say because misinformation sucks for everyone else. The floating myth (look, it floats!) comes from harmonic dampeners used in V6 and V8 motors which were designed to prevent you from damaging a crank due to vibrations of the motor. If you really wanna know more refer to Wikipedia. The rubber ring you are referring to, which makes the crank pulley resemble a haramonic dampener is part of all the BS manufacturers stick into your vehicle to quiet down cabin noise; it is also why your stock intake tubing sucks and your stock exhaust doesn't blow like Susie down the street. The bottom line is our Honda motors are internally balanced which means you don't have to worry about that stuff.

In all honesty, I want you to make the decision for yourself based on your own research. I, personally, have never run the pullies on a B or D-series motor and will openly state that fact. But when run on a F-series non-VTEC I was a lil' torqued about spending close to $400 for what I got; third gear pulled a lil' harder and 1st revved a touch faster. Other than that I was pretty disappointed. Now after I threw them on the H22 then that was a bit more notable on waking up the motor, especially in the upper rpms. I ran those pullies for over a year on the F22 and two years on the H22. I never spun a bearing, I never blew an oil pump, and I sure as hell never rattled my crank in half. Hope that helps.

civic steve

No worries about being flamed. I was just passing on info I've read. The subject seemed rather dead, and little input was accumulating, so I figured I'd throw in what $0.02 I had. I'm more than open to correction, and it's reassuring that there are good UD pully options if one were to take them.

Metal Head

Well, I have a vtec motor D15B vtec. I have rans UDP on my FORD's for years and they have always gave me at the most 8 HP, mostly about 4-5 ish. Never had problems with oil pumps, or crank walk,etc...

And you say pulley(S) im assuming power steering, and alternator pulleys as well?
What wuld be the difference in just buying the crank pulley?

And I assume I would have to buy a smaller belt since its under driven.
I know ebay uis crap, but I wonder if the cheap 40.00 shipped crank pulleys are any good?

Eran

iTrader: (1)

I want it be known:

I said <u>most</u> in my post for a reason. There are quality UDP's out there for Honda's (Unorthodox for example), but there are also trash. OBX and other billet blue ebay brands are examples of those.

blinx9900

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Surfjunkie44 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The floating myth (look, it floats!) comes from harmonic dampeners used in V6 and V8 motors which were designed to prevent you from damaging a crank due to vibrations of the motor.
.</TD></TR></TABLE>

amen, and most domestics not only rely on the pulley or external weights to balance the motor, the crank is NOT forged like on hondas. while all honda motors are balanced internally they are not all equal, for example the b16b motor is more balanced than a b18b. someone did a comparison with a type r crank vs an LS i think and you can see the difference in the counterweights.

Surfjunkie44

Eran... whatever you say man. It's ok.

Metal Head... man I don't even know where to begin with you. If you wanna buy the cheapest parts you can get thinking the millions of dollars of R&D isn't really worth what the manufacturers spend then go right ahead. Obviously nothing I have said is or will get through to you. I'm sorry but when I saw D15 my first thought is never about VTEC on single cams; single cam VTEC just doesn't register in my head unless you're boosted.

I'm not going to flame rant here but... nevermind I am. Why bother asking for other's opinions if you're just gonna pull the "I know what I'm talking about" routine. You say you have "rans UDP on my FORD'S for years" with authentic dyno results I might add (Yeah... TPS Reports?) and you also noted "I assume I would have to buy a smaller belt since its under driven"... For someone who has been doing this for years now that seems like a kinda silly question. Well here's like a kinda silly answer: Yes & No. Read further if you're willing to learn.

Depending on the type of pullies you purchase belt size may or may not change due to the fact that there are several styles of aftermarket crank pullies. Such as with UR you may purchase OEM sized crank pullies that have simply been lightened thus reducing the rotating mass on the end of the crank. A true underdrive pulley is actually reduced in size (and usually lightened as well) to not only reduce the rotating mass on the crank but to underdrive the parasitic systems usually associated with a motor including alternators; power steering pumps and a/c compressors. The design idea is to free up power that would otherwise be spent turning these assessory pullies. The system you would be interested in would be the Ultra R series from UR which is specifically designed for applications such as yours where all assessories minus the alternator have been removed.

Your specific question encompassed purchasing simply the crank pulley. The assessory pullies are usually lightened but for the most part remain OEM in size (will differ based on vehicle applications) while the underdriving is mostly done on the crank since that is where most gains in HP can be seen. As stated before I have never personally used the system on a B or D-series motor but my experience with F & H-series are as follows:

P/S Pulley remained OEM size but was HEAVILY lightened (that's a cool oxymoron).
ALT Pulley was slightly underdriven with a notable amount of weight reduction.
Crank Pulley was HEAVILY lightened (again) and had the most visible amount of underdriving. I actually found an old post on here I did back in '03 that discussed one issue that I had noticed with several UDP applications where the pulley did not seat completely on the end of the crank causing some pretty irradic idle issues and as well some clearance issues in some cases but again this was all with F & H-series motors. Geez I hope we are done this thread.