hgem1si

Let me start off by saying I'm not sure if what I'm about to layout for you is an issue or a side effect. I'll make what I'm asking easy.

Facts:
-About 2 or so months ago I installed type-r cams in my car (2000 Si b16a).
-I did not upgrade/change the retainers or springs.
-After I had it done my car was running like ****, changed plugs... and it ran fine.
-I had my valves adjusted twice, second time as a once over to get rid of noise (noise explained below)

What's happening now:
-I've noticed I'm burning a serious amount of oil. My oil change was about 1k ago and I was a quart low yesterday.
-Car is running rough again, kind of "putting"
-Knocking noise coming from the engine. If you need to know anything else about the knock let me know and I will check tomorrow.
-When I start my car sometimes the RMPs start low, like 5-600 then jump up after 2-3 seconds, or when I give it gas. Sometimes it even dies.
-At idle, my RPM never reads the same, sometimes its 750, sometimes its 900, sometimes it's even higher.
-I also feel like I have to give my car more gas for it to catch 1st, that may be unrelated.. Just trying to lay everything out.

Questions:
-Do you think this is my plugs again? If so, what's causing them to go so fast?
-Could this be related to me not changing my retainers/springs?


I'll add more questions as I think of them, I had more earlier...

Keep in mind I tried my best to help you help me, let me know if you need any more info. I'm not a car genius, but I wouldn't call myself car stupid. I'm hear to learn! :D

Thanks guys

baz_ctr

Hi have you had your timing checked?

hgem1si

What's up dude... Timing was checked and adjusted I believe when the cams were installed.

baulum

Do you think the guy who installed the cams is not pro?I believe.Installing a ctr cams,requires a good balance for a proper tuning.

hgem1si

It's a professional shop.. The guy who did the install has been in the business forever. His old civic was well known in socal.

electron_si

i installed ctr cams about 2 weeks ago. did my valve lash and only 2 valves were out of spec, and not by much at all. I have had no issues so far. The idle is just slightly different but i dont experience sputtering like you describe. Also, how much are you using vtec now? the more you engage vtec, the more oil you will burn.

Luserkid

Same here we installed some CTR cams into a B16A, running on a P28 (non chipped) ecu (our P30 took a **** on us) and were having no problems like you are. CTR is a more aggressive cam then the ITR, so thats not making much sense to me why your having problems. Although i would say look at your timing. Any codes? Cam Gears? What ecu are you running? Did the shop use a timing gun for a reading? If so what was the reading?

Duane_in_Japan

Have your man check the voltage out of the MAP sensor at a good warm steady idle at spec idle, if you can catch it there, it needs to be just under 1 volt, I did not notice if your ECU was chipped, it may need to be mapped out for this set up.

hgem1si

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Luserkid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Same here we installed some CTR cams into a B16A, running on a P28 (non chipped) ecu (our P30 took a **** on us) and were having no problems like you are. CTR is a more aggressive cam then the ITR, so thats not making much sense to me why your having problems. Although i would say look at your timing. Any codes? Cam Gears? What ecu are you running? Did the shop use a timing gun for a reading? If so what was the reading? </TD></TR></TABLE>

A timing gun was used, I'm not sure what the reading was. I'm running the stock si ECU, stock cam gears.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Duane_in_Japan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Have your man check the voltage out of the MAP sensor at a good warm steady idle at spec idle, if you can catch it there, it needs to be just under 1 volt, I did not notice if your ECU was chipped, it may need to be mapped out for this set up.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'll give them a call and run that by them. Oh yeah, my ECU isn't chipped.


Thanks for the replies so far

23-10

Its not related to not changing the springs etc.
Maybe they did not line up the cam properly to the slot on the distributor and even have the timing belt on the wrong sprocket.
I put in the same cams this summer (on a older b16) and had no problem.
The non vtec lobes are almost the same as the b16 cams, though the mid
lobe is larger.

B18C5-EH2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by baulum &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Do you think the guy who installed the cams is not pro?I believe.Installing a ctr cams,requires a good balance for a proper tuning.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Dude what are you talking about? I know you're new to this stuff, so please just read more than you post and it will all come naturally one day.

There is not any single thing having to do with "balance" when installing a set of cams, especially OE cams.

Make sure when they set the timing they used the WHITE mark on the crank pulley when they lined the cam gear marks up with each other.

Also I believe the stock timing setting when checking with a timing light will be 16 BTDC degrees +/- 2. My B18C5 made the best power at 18 BTDC for reference.

Check the plugs - if they are fouled, or read funny then you may have some tight or loose valves which can really play with the a/f ratios and cause "system too rich" or system too lean" issues and/or codes.

Do you not have any check engine light codes being thrown?

King V

I was told to tune a car if you were to change out cams in an instance like that(B16 cams to ITR cams). You are changing airflow through the motor. Thats like putting a rumpity cam in a domestic V8 and not jetting or adjusting the carb.

B18C5-EH2

Oh and BTW:

The knocking noise could be coming from the LMAs, or lost motion assemblies. They keep the VTEC rockers quiet at idle, and whenever the VTEC isn't engaged. the Type r engines have stiffer LMAs, and some people suggest to upgrade to the ITR LMAs whenever upgrading cams, but that's debatable.

If all the valve lash settings are dead-on, yet you've still got a valve tapping npise then chances are it's those LMas and there's nothing you can do save for replacing them, and they're expensive, and kind of a PITA job. the good news is that LMA noise isn't damaging in any way.

B18C5-EH2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by King V &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was told to tune a car if you were to change out cams in an instance like that(B16 cams to ITR cams). You are changing airflow through the motor. Thats like putting a rumpity cam in a domestic V8 and not jetting or adjusting the carb. </TD></TR></TABLE>

In "theory" that makes sense, but honestly CTR/ITR cams are not so much more agressive than B16A cams to require an imeediate tune in order for the car to idle properly and run well.

OBD2 systems are a motherbitch though. They like to throw "system too rich/lean" "p0505 idle control malfunction" etc. etc. bullshit codes that no OBD1 system would ever throw, so a small cam profile change could give you a few headaches, but IMO nothing like this guy's complaining of.

SkoundrelUSA

Sounds like the guy fucked up on the timing.

hgem1si

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Do you not have any check engine light codes being thrown?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm not getting any right now, but when it was running like this the first time it took a few days for a code to show up. And I think the code pointed straight to the plugs.


I think I'm going to take it to them, probably in the next two weeks. I'm going to tell them to check the timing and see if the valves need adjusting. They are my part hookup aswell. I'm picking up type-r headers. I think I'm going to chip/tune my car after I get the headers. I don't want to do many more mods as this is my DD and I deliver pizza.

Anyone give some good tuning advice for my setup? Also, who are some good tuners in SoCal?

ITR_Sol

Timing is gonna take a dump on you man. Pizza boy, You're gonna have to find another way home!! I would say timing is your issue. If youre going thru that much, Just buy a obd2 to obd1 conv harness on it and the run hondata. Or whatever floats your boat. But a new tune might not be necessary, but would deff help you out on getting the most out of your car. A good tune would waken it up. I tuned my all stock Obd2 98 ITR and picked it up around 9whp and 6 torque just by tuning it. That was running P73 vs hondata.
Not sure if its the obd2 part has anything to do w it, but most ppl that i have talked to, that has conv over to obd1 and tuned, has seen more of an increase when compared to just tuning an obd1 car. Could be that all of the obd2 emissions and crap have alot to do with holding one back. not alot of tuning options when dealing w obd2 as well.

hgem1si

Hmm I see, how much do those conversions run?

midnightsdawn

sounds like timing or valves lash is wrong.. have them run a compression test.. or hell do it your self .. if you compression is low in any cylinders those valves may be to tight.. and causeing them to stay open a tiny bit during combustion. which would cause just about all of the problems you listed...\

Jesse