new_climber

Hopefully you don't run me out of here for asking a parts questions...

But...

I am looking for a where, on the net maybe, I can purchase new final gears for my 93 EX 5-speed.

I need to get my tranny rebuilt, and want to put the longer gears that is in the VX/CX trannys. I do a lot of highway driving and I am looking to get the most MPG. I have been looking for a used/rebuilt tranny locally, but can't seem to find anything where the person knows exactly which trim package the tranny came from.....most just say 5-speed tranny, but they are not sure if it is from a DX, LX, EX civic.

I have done internet searches but just seem to find performance parts...of which I don't need. I just want stock parts....there is a local guy that gave me a quote of $200 to rebuild my current EX tranny and install a new final gear that is longer but I have to bring him the gear. All the final gears I have found cost over $500 just for the gears......like I said performance parts....

Any help with links to internet parts places would be very helpful...

94EG8

If you really want something longer geared you might as well just buy a CX/VX tranny or a DX/LX, bare in mind that CX/VX transmissions are geared painfully long. Also there isn't a direct correlation between lower RPMs and better mileage. If you look at the small circular stamp around the transmission fill plug it will say either A000 or B000, the former is the CX/VX or DX/LX, the later EX/Si.

If you do want to change the final drive you'll also need swap out second gear for one that matches whatever final drive you've chosen since the countershaft second is cast into the countershaft (first is too, but first gear is the same on all models)

Btw, if you really want to put a CX/VX final drive in there (and I'd really recommend that you don't) I'm pretty sure I have one here along with a matching second gear I'd sell cheap if you want to PM me about it.

new_climber

First thank you much for this information and recommendation....

You say you would not recommend putting the CX/VX gears in....can I ask what would you recommend. I am assuming that you don't recommend the CX/VX due to the gearing being so long...

Would a LX/DX be better??? My main goal is to increase my MPG...I am pretty light on the gas pedal and 90% of my driving is in 5th gear doing about 75mph...

Katastrophic

Would a LX/DX be better??? My main goal is to increase my MPG...I am pretty light on the gas pedal and 90% of my driving is in 5th gear doing about 75mph...[/QUOTE]

i have a 92 LX and trust me you wouldn't wan't anything geared longer.
@75 i'm just at 3k rpm and you can't pass on the freeway below 70mph
but you said your going for mileage so that might not be an issue
in 4th gear you hit 3k at 60 rpm
3rd gear 3k at 45ish
2nd gear is the same on all models
1st gear is all the same on all models
ONE THING you should remember, RPM does not have much to do with good or bad mileage
THROTTLE position is what effects mileage

cheggie

What kind of mileage are you getting now?
Many times, an "upgrade" just isn't worth it if it only nets you 2-3 mpg. 38 mpg vs 34 mpg will only save you about $140 in a year (12k driven per year, 3.75 a gallon)

The cheapest mpg improvements work well - tune up, stock airbox, tires inflated properly, correct alignment, no extra weight in the car.

I've been knocking down 34-36 mpg from my 96 EX, and I don't think I could get much better, even by swapping gears.

new_climber

Right now I am getting about 32mpg....

I agree that some upgrades are not worth the money, but in my situation, I need to pull my tranny anyway and get it rebuilt. So, if I can rebuilt it with something that will help my MPG if figured it was a win-win....

BUT, you have me thinking twice about the CX/VX trannies. There is someone locally selling DX/LX rebuilt tranny with a 12K mile/1 yr warranty. Maybe that will get me what I want......

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

DX transmissions are geared pretty long. I hate driving our hatch for that very reason. I cannot imagine how long the gears must be on a CX/VX.

IntegraKid_88

iTrader: (3)

The 2-3mpg is probably a high estimate...a lot of people who think short gears = bad mpg probably comes from the fact that when you have a short geared transmission your more likely to mash the gas.

Why do you need to rebuild the current trans?

new_climber

"Why do you need to rebuild the current trans? "

About 2months ago shift into 3rd and 4th was very difficult...a lot of grinding and sometimes I was almost "jamming" it into gear....1,2 and 5th was easy to shift into.....

I suspected it was syncro's...now 2nd and rev is getting difficult. I thought it might be the clutch but someone here mentioned that if it was the clutch it would happen on all gears, especially trying to shift into first gear.....

While I have it out, I was going to replace the clutch....and have it rebuilt.....

fleabag

Just remember that EX transmissions typically hold a better value than any other transmission. I suggest fixing that EX transmission and giving your car a good tuneup. If you do a lot of highway driving, 32mpg might be low even with an ex transmission.

IntegraKid_88

iTrader: (3)

buying any transmission cx or ex is going to be cheaper than rebuilding the one you have, especially if your set on getting a longer geared one as they go for like $100 max.

Have you tried changing your trans fluid and flushing out your clutch fluid? If any part of the clutch system is going bad it could cause shifting issues (not engaging or disengaging fully) and changing the trans fluid will get rid of the shavings created by previous "grinds".

Check around the cms and css and see if you see any leaks and check the clutch fluid level if you haven't already.

94EG8

Here's the thing, if you run a longer geared transmission you'll tend to be pushing the gas pedal down a bit further and the engine will work a bit harder. Like I said mileage really isn't dependent on engine RPM. It's got more to do with things like throttle position, a long geared DX transmission works great in a lighter car, but remember that an EX weighs a couple hundred pounds more. Personally I'd just fix the EX transmission or find another one. If you're dead set on trying something geared longer find a good DX/LX (you can often find these used anywhere from free to $150)

fleabag

eh, if he's going to go that length, then he should get the CX/DX Hatchback transmission out of the '96-'00 Civics which have a final drive of 3.722 instead of the 4.058 out of the DX/LX Civics.. 3.722 is a pretty good compromise between fuel economy and performance compared to the 3.25 which is all fuel economy and no performance. Don't want to go too tall with a valve timing arrangement like you have with the '00 and earlier EXs where there is no low end torque but much high end torque thanks to its valve timing arrangement. The cars that typically have these low geared transmissions have a valve timing arrangement that is suitable for their operation ('92-95 CX/VX, 96-05 HX, 88-91 HF). The '96-'00 CX/DX hatchbacks have the same valve lift/timing as the ex for under 3K rpm operation so I guess that would imply a transmission with a 3.722 final drive is about as low as you'd want to go. The D16y8 engine shares the same cam profile when not in vtec mode as the D16Y7 which is found in all '96-'00 civics save for the EX/HX civics. While it's true weight can be a real issue with these vehicles, the biggest issue is not having any low end torque due to the cam profile the engine has which bias the power to the upper end and not to the lower end where you need it.

sk8shorty012

iTrader: (3)

I find that I actually get BETTER gas mileage crusing at 4,600 RPM in 5th gear @ 75mph.

new_climber

I can understand the concept that less RPM's doesn't always mean better MPG....BUT....how can you get better MPG at 4600 RPM's then at 3000 RPMS. There has be some logical thinking that if the engine is turning that much faster you will be using that much more gas... I also can understand that if I am trying to "get on it" to pass someone, and I am not in the so called power band for the max torque, I will be dumping gas in, but the engine will be loaded down...hence more gas, for no more power.

For me, if I were to drop down to 65MPH on for my 40miles trip home....all but 5miles is freeway...I can get 3-5 mpg more...but it also takes me 10mins longer to get home..... My thinking is that at 65mph, I around 3000 rpm's. At 75mph...my usually speed on the way home...I am around 3200 to 3300 rpm’s and get about 32-33 mpg....

Being I am having issues finding a VX/CX tranny from any year....I think I might go with the DX/LX as many have suggested....and a new clutch at the time also.

Katastrophic

[QUOTE=new_climber;45274280]I can understand the concept that less RPM's doesn't always mean better MPG....BUT....how can you get better MPG at 4600 RPM's then at 3000 RPMS. There has be some logical thinking that if the engine is turning that much faster you will be using that much more gas...

you must remember RPM and Gas are different ball concepts, each car has a power band and a transmission that uses this optimally, i know my car likes to be between 2500 and 3500 and i can cruise down the freeway at 3500 and have practically no throttle pull which then saves gas.

i know with some b series you can cruise at 4k all day and get crazy good gas mileage because that's where the engine works great at, same goes for any D series engine.

Here's a concept, if you had one transmission geared really long and the other about medium length and you pressed on the gas just a little bit, which one would achieve a higher speed? chances are the shorter ratio, but after a certain speed the longer ratio would be more beneficial, so all in all it depends on what speed you prefer to cruise at and thus optimizing your gearing for that.

your ex is at 3k at 65 right? my LX is in 4th gear at the same RPM @ 65
that alone is a huge difference. now in 5th (my speedo has that 3% factory to fast issue) so i'm ball parking this one, but 3k at around 75

if you want to see your rpm to ratio try this out and it might help
http://www.zealautowerks.com/transcalc.php

new_climber

"your ex is at 3k at 65 right? my LX is in 4th gear at the same RPM @ 65
that alone is a huge difference. now in 5th (my speedo has that 3% factory to fast issue) so i'm ball parking this one, but 3k at around 75"

First I want to say thanks for this information...this is very educational on my part....

With your example...yes, I am at 3k at 65, and that is in 5th gear. So, when I want to push up to 75mph...I need more rpm's which would that require more gas...your LX uses 5th gear to get to 75mph......while staying at 3k. Isn't that where the gas savings is??? Your motor is requires less energy...gas...to do more work...faster speed....using the gearing to accomplish this....

Or is this where I am putting gas and gears together.....

Katastrophic

no i think you managed to survive my awfully worded post and got what is needed.

use the calculator i posted because we have the same 4/5th gears just different Final drives.
wish i remembered that earlier, woulda saved me some trouble

94EG8

Btw, one other thing people forget is that you can get into 5th (ie overdrive) a lot quicker with an EX transmission which really makes a difference in town.

new_climber

"Btw, one other thing people forget is that you can get into 5th (ie overdrive) a lot quicker with an EX transmission which really makes a difference in town. "

I hear what you are saying....but civic hatch’s in the 80's and 90's were known to get 40+mpg...I had a friend that had a new...for the time...early 90's hatch, she was getting upper 40's living in the big city with very little highway driving....why are we back into the low 30's now??? I am looking for the best economy car I can get...as I realize that to get exactly what I am asking, I need to get those cars...but why not get something as close as possible without buying another car???

3-5mpg is worth the $300 for a rebuilt LX/DX tranny....at least in my opinion....my concern is that....Will I see that increase or not??

Katastrophic

[QUOTE/]
3-5mpg is worth the $300 for a rebuilt LX/DX tranny....at least in my opinion....my concern is that....Will I see that increase or not??[/QUOTE]

yes i believe with your driving style you will see an increase.

i'm not sure if your talking about modern cars when you say now they are at 30mpg but i do remember hearing CRXs getting 50 MPG all day erryday

not to get political but gas companies had the US by the cahonas not to long ago and we all thought oil would stay plenty and cheap forever. naive i know.

don't forget your old school hondas weighed 2300 pounds or less and were "small" where as now a days cars a heavier and "roomier" and are practically required to come loaded with stuff.

but mostly because oil industry wanted to milk as much as they could. remember 5 bucks a gallon in 08 when we had "plenty of oil"

fleabag

Why keep blaming the oil companies when it is in fact the consumers who are at fault? Want cheap fuel? Nuke china and have everyone in America switch to more fuel efficient cars.. It's a supply demand equation and believe it or not, oil companies do not like high oil prices because it means people will seriously consider alternatives. Nobody will consider an alternative fuel source if oil is cheap but when it gets expensive, certain things look more enticing. China is the primary reason why the last 5 year have seen an escalation in oil prices with the recent run-up being caused by turmoil in the middle east and a potential economic recovery.. The reason oil prices collapsed in 2009 has nothing to do with the oil companies and everything to do with a decline in demand due to the recession. The fact that you didn't even mention the recession shows your ignorance of the situation. A decline in demand by 1% would send oil prices through the floor and an increase in demand by 1% can send oil prices through the roof.

fleabag

no... If you consult any hypermiling or fuel economy website, the consensus is that you get better fuel economy at lower speeds while in the tallest gear. These are people who have conducted actual testing at various speeds and conditions. If you had an actual fuel economy gauge attached to your OBD-II port in your car (assuming you have one) you'd see otherwise.

Billy Elliot

Or you can just not drive 75mph and drive 65-70mph and save gas that way. Free mod, your driving style. The drag force comes from the square of your velocity. So by going 65 instead of 75, you'll be using approx 25% less HP to maintain that speed, thus saving fuel. You won't actually use 25% less fuel though.

You can also work tomaintain your speed, don't use the brakes as often as possible. Accelerate on the downhills and cost the uphills.

I once got stuck in a snowstorm driving back to school and was going anywhere from 35-50mph. When I finally fueled up I had got something like 45mpg in my 2000 Civic EX.

Katastrophic

very nice numbers there
also after 70-75 mph your cars aerodynamics are no longer effective (to a degree) and thus the increased drag will require more gas.
but... katastrophic the same could be said about driving with your windows down this is true but if anyone here watched mythbusters (many years back) it was proven running with the ac off and stereo off with the windows down will save considerable gas compared to AC on windows up stereo blasting.

BUT HEY i think that's just common sense