punchodex

The car is a 2000 Civic LX. 243k miles. The current engine is a used Japanese D16Y7, stock, installed when my vehicle was at 202k miles. New timing belt and water pump, new hoses, all that with install. It's been a good used engine so far.
It recently took a dump when the MIL turned on and wife limped it home 1 mile. I looked at it, took a few days to diagnose the issue. It was a random misfire code, it was pinging bad. First I regapped plugs, installed new plugs, new fuel filter, new cap/rotor to rule these things out. The issue was the timing belt slipped a tooth advanced (I went to check timing and couldn't time it). I fixed it, tightened belt. That issue is gone, but it runs bad still. It sounds mechanically bad, the ping is gone and misfire code is gone.
No new codes.
It sounds bad, it will idle good in open loop but rougher and lower idle in closed loop (unplugging O2 sensor made no significant difference).
I swapped the MAP from a 97 before I figured out timing belt issue, seemed better before I figured out timing belt issue but after fixing timing belt no difference.
I checked fuel pressure and regulator, within specs (high end, but good).
I have a large crack in exhaust manifold/cat but I tried swapping manifold and exhaust from my 97 and no difference.
I swapped injectors and fuel rail from 97 and no difference.
I wanted to swap distributor but they're different (97 is VTEC).
I checked valves, a few needed a slight adjustment.
I did a leakdown, under 4% at 100psi on all cylinders.
Wife borrowed a regular compression tester from Kragen/O'Reilly. It showed under 100 (about 80-90), but with oil added to hole about 130 on all. The cars will idle and run, which doesn't make sense with compression of 80-90. I'm boggled why this was bad, but leakdown was good. I thought maybe the cylinders were washed with fuel.
I don't see any loss of radiator fluid. Exhaust smells off (maybe oil or fluid, can't tell for sure).
It runs okay above 3k RPMs, like no stumble or stalling out. You have to ease on the throttle. I drove it today around the block and it will drive with much less power but if revved above 3k it revs okay just less power. It will bog and stall if you try to WOT it from idle.
My code readers shows live data, the fuel trims are high negative indicating exhaust leaks before sensor or fuel injector leakage or too high fuel pressure. Swapping parts from a known good car didn't change this. So I suspect mechanical damage.
I'm out of ideas, ready to throw in the towel and have it towed to a Honda expert who will tell me the engine is toast.
I did accidentally leave a socket wrench on my pulley (from valve check) and cranked it, doubt that would mechanically damage engine though. Can't recall if this was before or after fixing belt slip issue.
Any ideas?
Did I miss something that could cause the sound and stumble/bogging/stalling issue? Could it slip one tooth advanced and wreck engine? Doesn't seem possible. Could it go all the way around once, plus one tooth advanced, thus wrecking valves yet still run somewhat?
Thanks in advance for any guidance.

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

Engine sounds tired. Healthy compression is 135psi. Something to think about.

Former User

Did you replace the timing belt that slipped?

Are you able to set the ignition timing to spec using a timing gun and the service manual procedure?

punchodex

Agreed. But for it to randomly go from having good power to garbage?

punchodex

I didn't replace the belt since it was only about 41k miles on it.
I was able to set timing after correcting the timing belt slip issue. It's set at the red line (I believe), per the manual procedure with a timing light.

Former User

You should consider the belt damaged after it skips teeth.

Did you jump the service connector and adjust the timing while the warmed up engine was idling at spec rpm?

punchodex

Understood. But this wouldn't be the reason for the mechanical sounding damage I hear, right?
I wish I knew what different mechanical damage sounded like so I could better describe it.
I'm wondering how quickly a piston could be damaged from that timing belt slipping making it ping/detonate. It was driven about a mile home. I later drove it about 2 minutes to see how it drove. Idled it maybe 20-30 minutes throughout all the diagnostics.

I did. I used a wire with some alligator clips on each end and put back probes into the terminals/connectors and connected the probes together with the clips and wire. Looked ugly but worked.
Car warmed up (not driven, but idled until warm).
I didn't check idle at specs, but it seemed/sounded around normal-perhaps slightly low.

Former User

After the timing belt slips/snaps, you test for mechanical damage by compression testing the cylinders.

92ehatch

Which he did and it was too low. It's time to inspect visually and repair/replace.

Unless his re used belt skipped again

Former User

I wasn't convinced that compression was low as it's unclear that the compression test was done correctly.

92ehatch

Since he didn't say how he did it, this is plausible.

Results are either accurate or he forgot to hood the throttle open imo

He should retest disabling the fuel and spark with throttle wide open and post results

Former User

Also remove the spark plugs.

TomCat39

And a warm (not hot) engine. Doing the test on a cold engine will definitely provide much lower results no?

punchodex

For the cranking compression, all plugs were removed and the throttle was held wide open. I disconnected the connector to the distributor, which I know disables spark and I assume disables fuel (not positive though). I'm guessing the Kragen/O'reilly loaner gauge was junk.

Former User

Sounds good.

punchodex

I gave up and had it towed with my AAA 200 mile towing which I never use. It was to some Honda guys who have worked on them forever.
It looks like I omitted an important clue, sorry. When checking the ignition timing the crank pulley seemed to wobble excessively, which I noticed my 97 did not do.
The mechanical damage noise got louder worse when I drove it from driveway to behind the tow truck, the power steering got difficult.
The guy's house I sent it to said the alternator light turned on along with the lack of power steering, he noticed the crank pulley wobbling really bad. He drove it to another house (the guy who was going to work on it) and the pulley by that time quit spinning with the engine.
So the crank end and woodruff keyway got destroyed by the loose crank pulley. I opted for a used engine rather than changing the crank out and getting a new pulley.
It seems the pulley wasn't tight enough to begin with? My leaving the wrench on and cranking may have pushed it to the point of no return. It wobbled before the wrench incident, but it got progressively and quickly worse. Not positive why it was good for 41k miles.
The crank fluctuation sensor had all the metal shavings obstructing it, so that must have been the bogging issue. I was even considering inspecting this sensor as a cause, but it was difficult to access and they seem fairly reliable. I bet the damage was too far along to save it at that point anyway.
Not sure why the timing belt slipped one tooth, but that fixed the misfire and pinging. They didn't believe me and said they've never seen one slip a tooth, but it seems guys on here have seen them slip a tooth. I can't see how the loose pulley resulted in a slipped timing belt (or vice versa) since they're using different parts of the crank.
I'll see if I can upload the photo of the damage.
New (used) motor is in, car's okay now.
Thanks for the input.

punchodex

Crankshaft Damage

Former User

The timing belt jumped a tooth. You reset the mechanical timing, but the engine still ran poorly. Are you saying that the engine still ran poorly because the crank pulley was loose and prevented the mechanical timing from being reset correctly?

punchodex

The misfire code and ping went away after adjusting the mechanical timing. Plus I was able to set ignition timing within specs afterward. I believe it fixed that problem completely.
I think it still ran poorly because the CFK sensor was caked in metal shavings (found out after the fact) from the slowly disintegrating keyway and loosening crank pulley. An impact was used to install that crank pulley (not the 14 ft-lbs + 90 degrees method the book recommends). That impact likely wasn't powerful enough resulting in it being too loose. The impact used seems to only hit a little over 100 ft-lbs. I imagine 90 degrees is more than 100 ft-lbs.

Former User

The crank pulley problem you had is often caused by installing the timing belt guide plate in the incorrect orientation.