bandit67

Guys, this one has me stumped. Drug home a 95 with a D15B7 motor the kid owner said overheated. Put in "new" JDM motor, the block is stamped D15B, no numbers, after swapping all the bolt ons. Having put in several JDM motors and having the timing belts break with in six months, I went ahead and installed a new timing belt. This motor says D15B but has the dipstick up near timing cover instead of thru the exhaust manifold like most other 92-95 Civics. It is a SOHC non VTEC. I have put in several timing belts in the past and know when one is 'one tooth off". It will run, but does not have enough power to pull a greasy string from a rats butt..., and you get that roaring noise from the intake air box. I have aligned my marks, set the belt, counter clockwise the crank to take up slack and locked the tensinert. Rechecked all, fired it up and runs like a tooth off. I have taken is back down and moved it a notch to two notches in BOTH directions and it never runs good. Of course is get no CEL codes. I am using the white timing mark on the crank pulley for alignment at TDC but learned to use the RED mark for setting exact timing with jumper installed to block computer timing. This motor has timing cover with the pointer at 7 o clock with seems to line up with cam gear lines with the head.

After messing with this thing for a couple of days I am wondering this morning if maybe something else is causing it to run so down on power......maybe like the computer. I found the timing wires hanging down and wonder if the kid and his buds were messing with computer.

I do recall when the motor was out and I installed the new belt, I had to order a different belt. Seems the stock one for 92-95 would not work so we ordered another one listed by Dayco and it fit fine. I have moved this belt over a dozen times and just cannot seem to find its happy spot. Quite obvious I am making the same mistake and need to do something different......any suggestions....thanks

SuperKartRacer

Why not slap in a D16z6 up in there...... up in there?

Are you running the correct ECU?

TomCat39

The D15B might be the VX timing belt with 104 teeth instead of the B7 106 teeth. don't really recall.

The white mark away from the 3 marks is your TDC mark to set mechanical timing. Use it to lign up the crank to TDC with the timing cover pointer, and also lign up the UP on the cam shaft to point straight up and the two horizontal marks should be level with the head.....

Do your tensioner by the loosen turn crank CCW for 3 teeth and tighten tensioner.

Then for ignition timing with a timing light on plug wire #1 you use the middle (red) mark of the 3 grouped together aligned up to the pointer on the timing belt cover.

The white mark all by itself and the red middle mark with the group of 3 marks are for two different types of timings. One is mechanical and the other is ignition (electrical).

Checking the ECU would be a good idea just for peace of mind.

Also when the valve cover was off, did you check the valve lash clearances?

And have you double checked your firing order of 1,3,4,2 starting from the top firewall side of the distributor if the big square part is facing the radiator?

bandit67

Me buying this motor , installing it , new rad and paint job is all on me trying to help my Lady friends young son. Just want to get him some good , reliable ,cheap transportation. I do not think he has changed out the ECU and assume it is the stock, original one. TC, you are saying the D15B COULD be a VX and VXs could possibly take a smaller tooth belt.....Dang, wished I had kept the old belt to measure. Can t remember just exactly what the problem was getting the right belt. Yes, I am using the white mark for TDC and the dizzy firing order is correct and working correctly. All the timing advances are working correctly. He had been driving it every day for months till he ran it hot. I just swapped all the stock stuff on to this block. The intake and dizzy on the JMD was completely different than our American stuff and nothing was interchangeable......so, it could be a VX I guess.

At this point I have only pulled the top cover off, only needing that to move cam gear. Thinking maybe now pull it all off and see about number of teeth needed on belt. In pulling the valve cover all was very clean and appears to be a very low milage motor and no, have not checked valve lash. This is a new challenge , will keep pidlin.....thanks

TomCat39

Just talking belt and water pump I've read is like the VX not the B7.

Kid ran it hot, then it may not be your timing work that's the problem.

If the head warped it would run like **** and have other issues. Have you done a compression test on all four to be sure it's still in good shape?

And good point, was running fine before so valve lash wouldn't have changed from you doing a timing belt. A quick check will probably verify that all is well and no adjustment needed.

bandit67

TC, it was the original motor that the kid ran hot. It had over 250k miles on it and I did nothing to it, just pulled it and replaced it with this "new" JDM motor i bought from Tiger for pretty cheap. I have put in several of these and had good results, I drive one every day. Even though they say they estimate 30 to 45k miles on these motors, each one I have installed as is, broke the timing belt with in six months of use. They is why I wanted to change this one out BEFORE putting it in and running it. So, I have fired it up and drove it down the road a few times.....but it seemed very weak power wise at its best.....like the timing was off. Thus , here I am , trying to figure out what I am overlooking. Whats the definitive on madness.....doing the same thing the same way looking for a different outcome.......gotta be something.

TomCat39

I gotchya. Including the definition of madness.

I also don't see you messing up the mechanical and or ignition timing but you did say you just learned of the red mark so I went back to square one to cover all the bases.

One other thought.... Did you somehow install the dizzy 180 degrees out? I know the key is offset but I have heard of people doing it somehow.

The non vtec D15B is a perfect match for the D15B7 the kid blew up so yeah.... I can see why you'd pick that route.

There is one other thought, there are two plugs on the motor that are the same. For the life of me, I can't think which two. IACV and MAP or MAP and something else... The only thing is, if you did them in reverse I thought it would pop a fuse or something of such sort....

I'm grasping at straws, so feel free to ignore any part you know to not apply.

Afterthought just came to me... This is a used motor in unknown condition bought from a JDM importer..... I think doing a compression test is relevant... You actually don't know if the motor was tested before it was pulled, nor the condition of it etc. It may look clean but that doesn't mean the timing belt hadn't snapped and bent a valve or anything. A simple compression test, even on a cold engine will give you a general idea of the health of the motor. Maybe it's nothing you've done but you got a bunk motor and need to have the importer swap it. It happens sometimes.

joey1320

Yes!!!!

axis11

I've had a non-vtec d15b before and came up with the same issues you are having.
The timing marks are way different than the usual usdm stuff.
The thing is, I alligned the tdc marks before removing the old belt. Crank pulley tdc mark points to the pointer on the plastic back cover . (Verified tdc thru the spark plug hole)
Cam gear marks points to the plastic back cover pointer at 7:00 oclock.
Crankbolt was so tight so I assume the belt was still the original from the factory.
So I just installed the new belt and all went well.
The ignition timing is also different.
Tried to set it at 12 degrees and it was smoking with unburned gas and power is lacking.

Fiddled with the adjustment on the dizzy, and behold, car was pulling hard at around 20+ (btdc)degrees timing.Thats base timing.
Wierd I know. But car run great.
Up to now I haven't figured out what or where the problem really was. Jdm stuff always has something different.

TomCat39

12 Degrees is a bit retarded for the 92-95 OBD1 FI vehicles, not surprising you were not burning all the gas proprerly.

I would suspect you would have to be 20 degrees btdc to run okay if you are mechanically off on time. Was the dizzy at one extreme or the other to get to ~20* btdc? If so, which extreme, retard or advanced?

That's the other thing bandit67, if you can get the ignition timing to the middle red mark then your mechanical timing has to be dead on. I've seen it said more than once that you will not be any where close to those marks if you are even 1 tooth off on mechanical timing. I don't know how much validity there is to that being I've never had my mechanical timing one tooth off before when doing ignition timing.

On d-series.org I am seeing experienced folk say you time the D15B motor the same as the VX (d15Z1) motor.

bandit67

Ok, that rings a bell. In only the last few belt tooth swaps when the car would crank and run pretty good would I throw the timing light and see where the red mark was.....it has never been spot on. I think somehow I may have gotten a different number of teeth belt to work. I normally run Dayco belts and have several different part numbers. Wonder is there any way to know exactly what is needed and which part numbers are what tooth. I normally keep everything but the original belt was trashed and is long gone. Pretty sure that belt has to come off......

TomCat39

I was off by a tooth if it is indeed supposed to be the VX timing belt.

This is the part number for the VX timing belt:

14400-P08-004
Belt, Timing (103Ru24 A-555) (Unitta)

It's 103 teeth belt not 104. Not sure where I pulled 104 from but my memory doesn't always serve me well.

Really if you have a 104 tooth belt, it shouldn't affect mechanical timing if you can get it tensioned properly. If it's loose it can translate to slack on the drive side and I guess that could equate to half a tooth variance. I don't think you could get away with 106 tooth belt though as that probably is too loose for the tensioner to make up for.

Don't forget to spin the motor counter clockwise 6 full revolutions to be sure the timing sticks after tensioning.

F1_Racer

So, you paid for the motor and installing it for your friend's kid for free? At least tell us you're getting a little something something from this lady friend of yours...... yes?

bandit67

A great Lady she is indeed. Ok, I ran the belt numbers on the one I installed and it is a 103 tooth. Think I tried the 106 and that is what I had trouble with. I plan to pull the belt this week and do some serious checking I picked up a 106 tooth belt and will revisit that install Wished I knew if there was a 104, or 105 tooth as I would see what that would bring. As I have done several of these before with no problems I think I will be able to spot when it is right.......just not sure what all it will take to get there. Thanks all for the comments........one never knows what comment lead to the solution.....great site for above board help.....

TomCat39

92-95 VX - 103 tooth
92-95 CD/DX - 106 tooth
92-95 EX/SI - 104 tooth

The tooth count is only going to affect belt tension, if it's large it's loose, if it's small it's tight and wines when it's ran. If it's just right it's just right.

bandit67

Ok, TomCat, thanks for your help with this problem. I got a 104 tooth belt and it would NOT work at all......belt tensioner would not take out all the slack. SO, the 103 belt I had been working with was the only option. Tore it all back down and retraced everything many times......never was happy with the setup. Put it back best I could , fired it up, ran crappy, and RED mark on pulley was way off. Took it down and moved the belt to put the red timing mark where it should be. Jumped out computer, fired it up and was able to dial the red mark exactly where it needs to be at idle. Car runs fine. But, if you look at the mechanical alignment of the cam gear and pulley, you would say the marks are off. Checked the dizzy and it advances as it should.

Did note while driving, the car does not like 5th gear. Seems like a big loss of power. Seems as your last post says, a 103 tooth belt is for a VX and a VX is only 92 hp. Maybe that is why is seems low on power. Wonder if a VX had a different set of gears for a manual tranny. Shifting from first to second and nailing the throttle its seems to take a bit longer to ramp up in RPMs as my other D15b 8s.

I think this motor from Japan had the twin carbs and I simply installed all the stock 95 fuel injection externals. Thanks again.......

TomCat39

If your D15B was the carb version it would have a block off plate like the third picture in my post here:

https://honda-tech.com/honda-civic-d.../#post50283667

My wifes car has the carb JDM D15B in it.

bandit67

Don t remember seeing that block off plate , but I will look again. I did find the box with the stuff I pulled off the motor and the intake LOOKED like it had a single carb but I see fuel injectors in the runners just at the head gasket area. And the dizzy was something I had never seen before......for sure not usable with anything I have.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

Just because the throttle body sits horizontally doesn't make it a carb. There's a big difference there. Does it look like this?



That a complete OEM D16Y7 intake manifold.

94EG8

If it has the dipstick by the oil pump it's a '96 - '00 engine.

Don't use the white mark on the pulley, remove the pulley and the lower timing cover and use the mark on the crank gear and oil pump, it's a lot easier. Use the timing belt instructions for a D16Y7/D16Y8/D16Y5. Count the teeth on the old belt and see what it takes for a belt (Y5/Y7/Y8 all take the same 104 tooth belt, D15Z1 VX takes a 103 tooth belt)

bandit67

The intake looks exactly like the pic NotAR posted, what I removed, an OEM D16Y he says. I did , in fact use the timing mark on the oil pump to get her going, that is much easier. The dipstick is indeed at the timing cover, meaning a 96-00 motor. But, I discarded the original belt before I had the new one installed on the engine, running....so was not able to count teeth. I tried a 104 belt and it would NOT work. I was too big and the tensioner would not take the slack from the belt when maxed out on adjustment. Like I said , now, I was able to set the timing exactly to the red mark , fine tuning it with the dizzy. It seems to run good , but notice when driving , it seems low on torque as compared to my other cars. I got this motor with a 5 speed tranny attached but used the one in the car as it was in good working order. I wonder if the one it came with would have been a better choice if it had a different ratio gearing for the lower torque produced by the VX motor. The car is a DX model with 13 tires.....so that is not a contributing factor to seemingly low power. The motor seems to coming on cam at third and fourth gear. Second gear seems like a dog and absolutely nothing in fifth gear. If i am running 60 in fifth and hit ANY slight incline.......big decline is speed even with throttle nailed. It is the lower power "new" motor I have installed....thanks for the feedback guys.......

TomCat39

The VX tranny is geared a bit differently than the DX. It's one of the tallest final drives of the bunch and the individual gear ratios are a touch different on some of the gears. Don't remember off the top of my head though which ones. A quick google search on d-series 5 speeds should give you a nice result for comparisons.