Tilting your rear trailing arm bushing?
03-06-2007, 07:59 PM
#1
Tilting your rear trailing arm bushing?
So, my rear trailing arm bushings are shot (on my 99 ex) and its time to get them replaced. I really want something to be able to withstand my stiff chassis (dropped 2.5" / asr brace / 23mm rear sway). Ive read the threads saying to stay away from the aftermarket ones as they dont allow proper deflection of the suspension system. So, my friend was telling me that if you tilt the OEM TA bushing (when you insert the new one) as to align it parallel with the ground, that it would produce less force on the bushing, making it last longer. He continued to explain himself by saying, its just like camber, when its negative, your get more wear quickly. Just as the bushing is "out of place" after lowering, if you titled it or aligned it, it would pro-long it. He said there used to be a thread on here. Anyone have more info on this or if it actually works.
03-06-2007, 08:14 PM
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Re: Tilting your rear trailing arm bushing? (sk8shorty012)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sk8shorty012 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So, my rear trailing arm bushings are shot (on my 99 ex) and its time to get them replaced. I really want something to be able to withstand my stiff chassis (dropped 2.5" / asr brace / 23mm rear sway). Ive read the threads saying to stay away from the aftermarket ones as they dont allow proper deflection of the suspension system. So, my friend was telling me that if you tilt the OEM TA bushing (when you insert the new one) as to align it parallel with the ground, that it would produce less force on the bushing, making it last longer. He continued to explain himself by saying, its just like camber, when its negative, your get more wear quickly. Just as the bushing is "out of place" after lowering, if you titled it or aligned it, it would pro-long it. He said there used to be a thread on here. Anyone have more info on this or if it actually works.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Your friend speaks some truth. Although camber doesnt cause tire wear. Common misconception.
WHENEVER you lower a car, you're supposed to tighten the bushings preloaded. The bushings that twist when the suspension moves up and down. If you tighten the bushings with the suspension at full droop, when you drop the car, this over twists the bushing. Think front upper and lower control arm bushings. You MUST tighten the bushings with the suspension at ride height. Meaning dont tighten down the control arm to chassis and shock bushings with the car in the air and the suspension hanging. Compress the suspension by (first place jackstands under the car) by jacking up the control arm. The suspension will compress. The car will lift JUST a tiny bit off the jackstand. The suspension is now preloaded. Now you can tighten the bolts that go thru bushings to factory spec. This is VERY important, but nobody does it lol. I keep trying to tell people to do it, but ...whatever. Tell your friend i said he's NOT an idiot
Your friend speaks some truth. Although camber doesnt cause tire wear. Common misconception.
WHENEVER you lower a car, you're supposed to tighten the bushings preloaded. The bushings that twist when the suspension moves up and down. If you tighten the bushings with the suspension at full droop, when you drop the car, this over twists the bushing. Think front upper and lower control arm bushings. You MUST tighten the bushings with the suspension at ride height. Meaning dont tighten down the control arm to chassis and shock bushings with the car in the air and the suspension hanging. Compress the suspension by (first place jackstands under the car) by jacking up the control arm. The suspension will compress. The car will lift JUST a tiny bit off the jackstand. The suspension is now preloaded. Now you can tighten the bolts that go thru bushings to factory spec. This is VERY important, but nobody does it lol. I keep trying to tell people to do it, but ...whatever. Tell your friend i said he's NOT an idiot
03-06-2007, 08:26 PM
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Re: Tilting your rear trailing arm bushing? (B serious)
Good info on this topic...get an OEM replacement and no aftermarket poly one. The stock one also appears to be like the Mugen one.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B serious »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Your friend speaks some truth. Tell your friend i said he's NOT an idiot </TD></TR></TABLE>
I concur.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B serious »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Your friend speaks some truth. Tell your friend i said he's NOT an idiot
</TD></TR></TABLE>I concur.
03-06-2007, 09:37 PM
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Re: Tilting your rear trailing arm bushing? (DeadEnd9009)
im about to put some urthane ones on my stiff *** car, whats deflection? why do i need it?
03-06-2007, 10:07 PM
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Re: (sk8shorty012)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sk8shorty012 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I understand about the preloading of suspension components, but what about tilting the bushing to be parallel to the ground as to keep stock geometry as to limit the amount of stress on the bushing?</TD></TR></TABLE>
that's preloading. Dont worry about parallel. Just compress the suspension. Thats the way your control arm will sit a majority of the time when your car is on the ground, right? Whether it's parrallel or not.
that's preloading. Dont worry about parallel. Just compress the suspension. Thats the way your control arm will sit a majority of the time when your car is on the ground, right? Whether it's parrallel or not.
03-06-2007, 10:09 PM
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Re: Tilting your rear trailing arm bushing? (blinx9900)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blinx9900 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im about to put some urthane ones on my stiff *** car, whats deflection? why do i need it?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Deflection is how much the bushing can compress and let the suspension move correctly. Deflection isnt a big deal really unless you want a smooth ride. Unless we're talking about the rear trailing arm bushing. Poly ones are solid and wont articulate at all and your toe curve will be off. This is the only bushing on the car where you have to worry about deflection (unless you want a smooth ride...then worry about deflection everywhere).
Deflection is how much the bushing can compress and let the suspension move correctly. Deflection isnt a big deal really unless you want a smooth ride. Unless we're talking about the rear trailing arm bushing. Poly ones are solid and wont articulate at all and your toe curve will be off. This is the only bushing on the car where you have to worry about deflection (unless you want a smooth ride...then worry about deflection everywhere).
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03-06-2007, 10:13 PM
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Re: Tilting your rear trailing arm bushing? (B serious)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B serious »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Deflection is how much the bushing can compress and let the suspension move correctly. Deflection isnt a big deal really unless you want a smooth ride. Unless we're talking about the rear trailing arm bushing. Poly ones are solid and wont articulate at all and your toe curve will be off. This is the only bushing on the car where you have to worry about deflection (unless you want a smooth ride...then worry about deflection everywhere).</TD></TR></TABLE>
yup, im talking about the rear trailing arm. will that not make the car handle better? cant i just adjust toe with the camber kit? handling is important to me.
yup, im talking about the rear trailing arm. will that not make the car handle better? cant i just adjust toe with the camber kit? handling is important to me.
03-07-2007, 08:11 AM
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Re: Tilting your rear trailing arm bushing? (blinx9900)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blinx9900 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
yup, im talking about the rear trailing arm. will that not make the car handle better? cant i just adjust toe with the camber kit? handling is important to me.</TD></TR></TABLE>
If handling is important to you, drop me a PM sometime with your specs. I will hook you up with my superior knowledge lol.
You dont want the poly trailing arm bushings. They will not allow your suspension to move as it should. If you dont care about ride, get pillowball. They're overkill IMO for a street car. I've had a street car with no rubber bushings on the whole car. All pillowball stuff, and poly stuff.....a lot of pillowball stuff...it rode like a motherfreaking skateboard. Never again lol.
If you care about handling, DONT set your camber kit to factory specs.
You can adjust toe seperately. This is what wears out tires like crazy, but depending on your ability, and setup, you can adjust toe just right to make your car rotate or do whatever else you want it to do.
Rear toe can be adjusted by the rear toe link. Front toe is adjusted by tie rods.
Again, drop me a PM or post your exact drop specs (if any) and i'll let you know how to tear turns a new one.
I road race avidly, and am an engineering student. Lol so basically I'm a nerd with mad driving skilllllzzzzzzzz.
yup, im talking about the rear trailing arm. will that not make the car handle better? cant i just adjust toe with the camber kit? handling is important to me.</TD></TR></TABLE>
If handling is important to you, drop me a PM sometime with your specs. I will hook you up with my superior knowledge lol.
You dont want the poly trailing arm bushings. They will not allow your suspension to move as it should. If you dont care about ride, get pillowball. They're overkill IMO for a street car. I've had a street car with no rubber bushings on the whole car. All pillowball stuff, and poly stuff.....a lot of pillowball stuff...it rode like a motherfreaking skateboard. Never again lol.
If you care about handling, DONT set your camber kit to factory specs.
You can adjust toe seperately. This is what wears out tires like crazy, but depending on your ability, and setup, you can adjust toe just right to make your car rotate or do whatever else you want it to do.
Rear toe can be adjusted by the rear toe link. Front toe is adjusted by tie rods.
Again, drop me a PM or post your exact drop specs (if any) and i'll let you know how to tear turns a new one.
I road race avidly, and am an engineering student. Lol so basically I'm a nerd with mad driving skilllllzzzzzzzz.
03-07-2007, 08:45 AM
#10
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Re: (sk8shorty012)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sk8shorty012 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I understand about the preloading of suspension components, but what about tilting the bushing to be parallel to the ground as to keep stock geometry as to limit the amount of stress on the bushing?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, this would be a good thing to do. It's not so much being parallel to the ground as it is just 're-clocking' it so it's not already twisted at your new ride height.
Yes, this would be a good thing to do. It's not so much being parallel to the ground as it is just 're-clocking' it so it's not already twisted at your new ride height.
03-07-2007, 08:48 AM
#11
Re: (EE_Chris)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EE_Chris »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Yes, this would be a good thing to do. It's not so much being parallel to the ground as it is just 're-clocking' it so it's not already twisted at your new ride height.</TD></TR></TABLE>
and what would you use a reference to know when its in the correct position?
Yes, this would be a good thing to do. It's not so much being parallel to the ground as it is just 're-clocking' it so it's not already twisted at your new ride height.</TD></TR></TABLE>
and what would you use a reference to know when its in the correct position?
03-07-2007, 08:52 AM
#12
Re: (EE_Chris)
sk8shorty012:
What you are asking about is called "clocking". All you need to do is install the new trailing arm bushing so that there will be no twist in the rubber once the car is at ride height. You just make a mark on the Trailing arm with a ruler at ride height before you start. The following write-ups will explain EVERYTHING:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1589298
http://www.performanceforum.co....html
What you are asking about is called "clocking". All you need to do is install the new trailing arm bushing so that there will be no twist in the rubber once the car is at ride height. You just make a mark on the Trailing arm with a ruler at ride height before you start. The following write-ups will explain EVERYTHING:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1589298
http://www.performanceforum.co....html
03-07-2007, 08:52 AM
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Re: (sk8shorty012)
again....jack up the car so it comes JUST off the jackstand. Thats when the suspension is compressed that's your reference point.
I just realized we're talking about the trailing arm bushing. Are you talking about the big one? This whole time i've been talking about LCA/UCA toe link bushings lol. the big bushing twists from the same position no matter what. There's no pivot point. There's only a chassis mounting point. With how the trailing arm bolts into the chassis (the big bushing), there is no clocking nessacary, as the bolts go parrallel to movment instead of perpendicular to movement like UCA/LCA/toelink bushings. You dont have to preload this. Your friend said parrallel because this is the way to put it if you want the bolts to go in with less resistance. Has nothing to do with bushing life.
Sorry lol
I just realized we're talking about the trailing arm bushing. Are you talking about the big one? This whole time i've been talking about LCA/UCA toe link bushings lol. the big bushing twists from the same position no matter what. There's no pivot point. There's only a chassis mounting point. With how the trailing arm bolts into the chassis (the big bushing), there is no clocking nessacary, as the bolts go parrallel to movment instead of perpendicular to movement like UCA/LCA/toelink bushings. You dont have to preload this. Your friend said parrallel because this is the way to put it if you want the bolts to go in with less resistance. Has nothing to do with bushing life.
Sorry lol
03-07-2007, 08:54 AM
#14
Re: (B serious)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B serious »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">again....jack up the car so it comes JUST off the jackstand. Thats when the suspension is compressed that's your reference point.
I just realized we're talking about the trailing arm bushing. Are you talking about the big one? This whole time i've been talking about LCA/UCA toe link bushings lol. the big bushing twists from the same position no matter what. There's no pivot point. There's only a chassis mounting point. With how the trailing arm bolts into the chassis (the big bushing), there is no clocking nessacary, as the bolts go parrallel to movment instead of perpendicular to movement like UCA/LCA/toelink bushings. You dont have to preload this. Your friend said parrallel because this is the way to put it if you want the bolts to go in with less resistance. Has nothing to do with bushing life.
Sorry lol </TD></TR></TABLE>
Clocking is necissary to relieve the stress & make the trailing arm bushing last. The problem is that you actually have to remove & reinstall the bushing to do so. No big deal if your gonna replace the bushings anyways...
I just realized we're talking about the trailing arm bushing. Are you talking about the big one? This whole time i've been talking about LCA/UCA toe link bushings lol. the big bushing twists from the same position no matter what. There's no pivot point. There's only a chassis mounting point. With how the trailing arm bolts into the chassis (the big bushing), there is no clocking nessacary, as the bolts go parrallel to movment instead of perpendicular to movement like UCA/LCA/toelink bushings. You dont have to preload this. Your friend said parrallel because this is the way to put it if you want the bolts to go in with less resistance. Has nothing to do with bushing life.
Sorry lol </TD></TR></TABLE>
Clocking is necissary to relieve the stress & make the trailing arm bushing last. The problem is that you actually have to remove & reinstall the bushing to do so. No big deal if your gonna replace the bushings anyways...
03-07-2007, 05:10 PM
#16
Re: (94eg!)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94eg! »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sk8shorty012:
What you are asking about is called "clocking". All you need to do is install the new trailing arm bushing so that there will be no twist in the rubber once the car is at ride height. You just make a mark on the Trailing arm with a ruler at ride height before you start. The following write-ups will explain EVERYTHING:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1589298
http://www.performanceforum.co....html</TD></TR></TABLE>
thank you sir
What you are asking about is called "clocking". All you need to do is install the new trailing arm bushing so that there will be no twist in the rubber once the car is at ride height. You just make a mark on the Trailing arm with a ruler at ride height before you start. The following write-ups will explain EVERYTHING:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1589298
http://www.performanceforum.co....html</TD></TR></TABLE>
thank you sir
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