throttlebotem1

DELETE THREAD PLEASE!!!!

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

Should have posted this over at http://www.j32a.com/

mygoldeneg

nice

Josueneta

Have u gone to j32a.com They got way more info about the j swap then HT hit them up n talk to ppl

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

Did you even bother to read the thread? It isn't that long. This was already suggested.

apexi_rsx

14b would be too small of a turbo to use. you will at least need a t3 turbo for that size of motor.

apexi_rsx

i guess it would be fine if doing a dual turbo setup. many have said having just one big turbo would make more power. with these turbo's u could make plenty of TQ

paton5g

You should do some more research on j32a.com

As I have completed one of these swaps myself, I can tell you that the engine you have will NEVER run with a CL-S ECU. The engine you have is a throttle by wire engine and although there are only a few minor changes from the previous generation V6 (mainly sensors, location of + that engine uses 4 O2 sensors) they are changes that will stop you dead in your tracks.

Unless you want to run a throttle by wire ECU and a whole lot of extra wiring (or a custom harness made by someone), you will need to get your hands on an engine with a cable throttle body.

I had that exact motor, but from '05 and I had to go back to an '03 CL-S engine.

The biggest problem with the CL-S ECU is the CKP sensors. There is one in the bell housing of the transmission and there is another on the crank. Unless the computer sees both sensors operating (correct read-outs, no faking or tricking the ECU) it will not run correctly and will be un-drivable. The CL-S also has intake manifold butterflies, which your engine does not have. It's just another item the computer will not see, and will throw a code.

You will need to pull the anti theft board out of the ECU if you expect it to work and start the car. Unless you have the original ignition tumbler and induction ring from the same vehicle the computer came from, it will not work.

j32a.com made my build possible and there are a lot knowledgable people in there who also have very informative threads. I'm an HT guy as well, always have been, but there are simply some areas that are not covered on this forum (HT) so get in there (j32a), member up and do some more reading bro.

apexi_rsx

this engines from a saturn and its going to run off a honda harness and ecu? are they that identical that this can work? also the mounting points are the same between the two?

Solomon1468

The engine in those vues is actually a Honda v6. Only reason I would ever buy a saturn. Also, I know it was posted way at the beginning of the thread, but the tt 3000gt stock turbos are the 9b turbos and the 14b is definitely larger. Looks like you have some dsm resources, so if you think the 14b's are too small, just go with a pair of evo III 16g's. The size difference between those and the 14b is actually not very much, but it'll give you a bit more cfm flow.

apexi_rsx

why not gt28r's like the Nissan's usually run plus its ball bearing . they also have a gt2876r which is a tad bigger and can produce a lil over 400hp each. as the gt28r is maxed out around 300-350hp. 700 for a factory s15 t28 turbo on ebay. if u have the 14b already i would just run it until u wanna upgrade.

paton5g

I can understand your logic by saying it's just like any other OBD swap. I agree with that and usually that would be fine. The TBW (throttle by wire) Honda engines differ greatly from there predecessor, the cable throttle engine.

I was THERE, I was right where you are now, using your same logic. Look at my build thread man. I didn't swap a TBW engine into my car for fun... I put it in, realized nothing would work, and pulled it out for an older one. I even had the TB switched out for a cable one.

Trust me dude.

You won't be able to make a TBW engine run with a cable throttle ECU.


I have copied and pasted this post from a thread I opened on acurazine.com, the guy who helped me is NVA-AV6 and he in incredibly knowledgable. I don't know if he would answer a PM, I have a feeling he goes a lot.


"Ohh, you are in for a world of fun, the A3 would have been my last choice for this as the ECU will complain until you also graft in the ABS system, multiplexers, DBW system and cluster from another 04-06 TL. Backdating the cam and crank sensors to say a 03 CL-S won't fly eaither as the oil pump does not have to mounting holes in the right position for it, the tranny does not have the extra crank sensor, and the cam gear will not bolt up right to the A3 cams, so you now HAVE to go down the route of making your teg a 3rd gen TL........."


You can see the thread here if you're curious... (J32A3 engine into Integra NIGHTMARE) http://tl.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=771589


I want you to have a V6 car dude, really. I'm not trying to discourage you, just trying to save you time. I wish I had someone like me telling me this stuff when I had my A3.

Jdmpopper

Drive by wire = Big $$$ but if yor serious about it talk to Don from Rpm systems on ht or j32a he knows alot about the v6 an builds harnesses an such

Also sign up for j32a.com you cant see alot of forums until you do

An anything after 04 is dbw your best route is get a 03-04 motor cl type s swaps are nice you can usualy find them motor an trans or you can get a j35 but youll have to do a little searching for a trans. An ya the ecu you have for the motor you have dosent go together you need a 05 an up tl ecu if ur goin manual 6spd then get a manual ecu you can use a auto one i believe don makes them run in drive or somthing if not itll go into limp mode.

An from the sounds of things you should be thinking about alot of other things besides what turbos ur gonna run.. It needs to run before you can turbo

Do you know what shifter your gonna use? Axles? Trans?

Also theres two types of trans ones that bolt to newer motors an the ones that bolt to the pre-05 ones if you get the wrong one you will have to change the bell housing an a few other things.

Glwb i hope i see this up an goin! Do more research on the engine you have an other v6 honda cars so you know what will fit. I could be here all day trying to help yoh but i cant do it all for you lol use google an wiki. An such talk to people like splat he did a v6 swap with dbw at rpm systems shop its in a ek too...

Jdmpopper

Also hybrid racing makes a great shifter box highly recomended! Its a work of art an the best for install you have to move a pin on the trans theres a video on youtube search hybrid racing box on v6 swap or somthing. Hybrid racing makes a ton of great swap parts look them up!

Jdmpopper

You got me mistaken man i never said it wont work or you cant do it!
Splat did it so ya it is very possible all i said was do your homwork an gave you a few refrenses to go off or an a few knoledgeable people who have done it an don from Rpm systems who specializes in the v6 swap an builds harnesses who could possibly make your harness an help you alot!

Youll never get anyones help with that attitude! I was bein nice i even recomended what you do for your shiffter! If you have any questions pm me ill help you the best i can or you can contact rpm or splat... Im sure if your nice theyll help you....

Jdmpopper

<-- forgot to leave you a beer

Jdmpopper

Wow... Ok buddy if you can remove that stick from your rectom for a few moments you could relize i never said it wont work!

I clearly said search splatv6 he has a ek that is drive by wire! An don from rpm systems did it i said look for them for help but if you think that means it cant be done then fine.. But clearly its been done b4 cuz splats driving his... So go off an inovaite somthing that has been done b4 without help..

An any info i do give you your to clueless to beleive me so why ask for help when you wont take it? Did you even look up the shifter i told you to check into? Probley not...

Jdmpopper

An i look forward to seeing any J-swap up an runing mainly mine... Good luck with build man i plan on seeing your dyno runs an progress...

Jdmpopper

Btw youll need a 05 plus trans.. Tl type s with lsd or a accord non lsd... East park auto in hydes park ny salvages alot.. So dont say i didnt try an help you still!

paton5g

I hope my comments weren't taken the wrong way.

I have no doubts that you'll be able to get this swap to run. All I was saying was that you won't be able to do it with the CL-S ECU. The GM unit however, that sounds promising. I'm confident that when you succeed using the GM ECU, you'll shine new light onto what is possible with these engines. The biggest problem with these swaps is the management. The AEM stand alone will only work with a handful of the J engines, which does not include the CL-S, regrettably. On the same token, the automatic engines require some tricks with wiring to trick the computer into thinking it's in drive all the time. I'm not a big fan of that, but it works. The new(er) engine that you have eliminates all that. Also, the auto and manual engines are identical, the only change is the ECU itself and some wiring.

I will agree with others in saying that the Hybrid Racing bolt-in shifter is a fantastic choice for this swap. I used one and it's amazing. Very precise, and a work of art indeed, you wouldn't be disappointed.

Again, I hope I didn't say something out of line, I was just trying to share in my own experience with this swap. I hope we can chat about the GM ECU some time.

What's your progress right now?

rpm systems

i got some emails about this thread . so i though i chime in with my to cents.

you can put that engine in to the car . now are for as wiring goes that is a different story. the sensors on the side of the for the crank and cam are the same . just some of the other things have to be changed or mode.

1: use the 04-05 tl maunal ecu with matching key . you might have to change the throttle body to make this work . you need the engine harness , engine sub-harness , throttle control mod , and some clips . with a little work you can get to work.

2: go with the GM systems use there wiring harness and ecu. you will have to come up with some type of interface between the GM electrical and Honda systems. like fuel pump relay and gauges ect. now GM not honda's ecu can be reflashed to turn on and off sensors. that could be a big help for you in the long run.

the whole DBW and DBC systems . you can make a DBW systems be true cable . for the honda/acura there's a sensor called the APP sensor. basically the TPS. you can put the the APP sensor directly on a older throttle body and using a adapter plate . connect the cable driven throttle body to the intake manifold. the car will work and rev up properly . here is the problem there in no more IACV which is in the DBW throttle body. so you have to mess with the medicinal idle screw to even out the idle.

if you are planing to boost or supercharge the engine . just remember that the GM engines use cast piston and rods . i would be careful on what you do due to the bottom end.

if you guys have any more questions hit me up . i am a member of this site.

envyhasnorest

looks good

envyhasnorest

good luck too man

D Griff

Cool build, I hope you get past being upset and continue to post info as it would definitely be interesting to many of us. I think everyone on here was just trying to help/making suggestions. Take them or leave them as you please since it's obviously your car! I don't have any info to pass along regarding J-swaps, but I just wanted to say good luck, could turn out to be an amazing car!

rpm systems

i hope that answered some of your questions . i would stay DBW for the launch controls and full throttle perfect shift . i would use the LS1 throttle body on the v6 as a upgrade . for the internals of you engine , i would look at what HPD just did with the same engine . HPD made 850 hp out of there stock internal engine. i would use the stock j35a8 internals out of a honda . due it is forge not caste .

i start look back into the what would be need to make the full wiring for GM engine and electronics. if you need wiring out pinouts from ALLdata . hit me up.

don
rpm systems