For those Carbon Fiber fans, something you should know.
07-19-2006, 10:38 PM
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For those Carbon Fiber fans, something you should know.
Dont know if this topic has been posted or even mentioned. But I believe its going to have affects in the automotive industry.
Carbon Fiber Shortage Update
Last Update: 7/18//06
Carbon Fiber Shortage Update
The carbon fiber shortage which became serious in 2005 has no signs of letting up. Although some uncertified carbon is occasionally available, certified carbon is almost completely taken by Airbus and the US Military.
As a result of lack of fiber, weavers have virtually discontinued specialty products like hybrids. 3K products like the popular 2 x 2 Twill (our #1069) are extremely scarce. Although some 6K product is supposed to be available by autumn 2006, most of that product was sold 6 months in advance.
Shortages often breed innovation and this shortage has resulted in Black Fiberglass. Black Fiberglass is an alternative to carbon twill only in applications which are purely cosmetic. Dashboards, speakers and many other applications will benefit for the long term with Black Fiberglass which should be available indefinitely. It looks exactly like a carbon twill but is simply fiberglass which is woven and dyed to look like carbon.
Of course, Black Fiberglass is significantly less expensive than carbon and prices are expected to come down when it is more widely available. Black Fiberglass is still hard to come by and the first weaving was released in July 2006.
For structural applications where certifications are a necessity, many engineers are designing with S-2 Fiberglass. S-2 is aerospace grade with a fine finish and has outstanding strength properties. It is suitable for many demanding applications. Our #1543, Style 6781 S2 Glass is first quality and is suitable for military certification.
The Problem
The carbon fiber industry was seemingly unprepared for the demand spike caused by both the Pentagon and the commercial aircraft industries. The Pentagon is blamed for more than 350 carbon-epoxy parts on the F-22 Raptor and the developmental Joint Strike Fighter is projected to be between 25 and 30 percent composite by weight. The F22 Stealth fighter, the Blackhawk helicopter, the unmanned predator drone as well as body armor, helmets, holsters and a variety of other military applications are gobbling up carbon fiber as fast as it can be produced.
Additionally, the Boeing 787 Dreamliner is scheduled to start operating in 2008. The enormous commercial jet is half carbon fiber. This direct competitor to Airbus’ dominance in the market is only the beginning of the fight. The Airbus Superjumbo A380 and A350 are also extensively carbon fiber and are expected to fly in 2006 and 2010, respectively.
Perspective
Airbus reportedly ordered over 100 A380’s, each of which uses approximately 70,000 metric tons of carbon fiber. One estimate of the entire sporting goods industry’s usage is 200,000 tons.
The good news is that carbon fiber producers are aggressively addressing increasing their capacities. Toray appears to be gearing up for a 30% increase in production for 2007 and again in 2008. Toho has plans for doubling capacity by 2008 compared to 2003 levels.
The bad news is that demand is growing faster and a few big users are squeezing smaller users, even smaller industries, right out.
To Our Customers:
We apologize to our many customers who have built successful businesses fabricating carbon fiber and hybrid materials in a variety of industries. This shortage is threatening the very existence of many of you. We are honoring our long term customers as best we can.
This has been very harmful to our business as well. We wish each of you success and sincerely hope we are able to earn your business through this difficult time.
http://www.fibreglast.com/carbonfibershortage
theres alot of information regarding companies facing shortage problems.
http://www.google.com/search?h...rtage
Carbon Fiber Shortage Update
Last Update: 7/18//06
Carbon Fiber Shortage Update
The carbon fiber shortage which became serious in 2005 has no signs of letting up. Although some uncertified carbon is occasionally available, certified carbon is almost completely taken by Airbus and the US Military.
As a result of lack of fiber, weavers have virtually discontinued specialty products like hybrids. 3K products like the popular 2 x 2 Twill (our #1069) are extremely scarce. Although some 6K product is supposed to be available by autumn 2006, most of that product was sold 6 months in advance.
Shortages often breed innovation and this shortage has resulted in Black Fiberglass. Black Fiberglass is an alternative to carbon twill only in applications which are purely cosmetic. Dashboards, speakers and many other applications will benefit for the long term with Black Fiberglass which should be available indefinitely. It looks exactly like a carbon twill but is simply fiberglass which is woven and dyed to look like carbon.
Of course, Black Fiberglass is significantly less expensive than carbon and prices are expected to come down when it is more widely available. Black Fiberglass is still hard to come by and the first weaving was released in July 2006.
For structural applications where certifications are a necessity, many engineers are designing with S-2 Fiberglass. S-2 is aerospace grade with a fine finish and has outstanding strength properties. It is suitable for many demanding applications. Our #1543, Style 6781 S2 Glass is first quality and is suitable for military certification.
The Problem
The carbon fiber industry was seemingly unprepared for the demand spike caused by both the Pentagon and the commercial aircraft industries. The Pentagon is blamed for more than 350 carbon-epoxy parts on the F-22 Raptor and the developmental Joint Strike Fighter is projected to be between 25 and 30 percent composite by weight. The F22 Stealth fighter, the Blackhawk helicopter, the unmanned predator drone as well as body armor, helmets, holsters and a variety of other military applications are gobbling up carbon fiber as fast as it can be produced.
Additionally, the Boeing 787 Dreamliner is scheduled to start operating in 2008. The enormous commercial jet is half carbon fiber. This direct competitor to Airbus’ dominance in the market is only the beginning of the fight. The Airbus Superjumbo A380 and A350 are also extensively carbon fiber and are expected to fly in 2006 and 2010, respectively.
Perspective
Airbus reportedly ordered over 100 A380’s, each of which uses approximately 70,000 metric tons of carbon fiber. One estimate of the entire sporting goods industry’s usage is 200,000 tons.
The good news is that carbon fiber producers are aggressively addressing increasing their capacities. Toray appears to be gearing up for a 30% increase in production for 2007 and again in 2008. Toho has plans for doubling capacity by 2008 compared to 2003 levels.
The bad news is that demand is growing faster and a few big users are squeezing smaller users, even smaller industries, right out.
To Our Customers:
We apologize to our many customers who have built successful businesses fabricating carbon fiber and hybrid materials in a variety of industries. This shortage is threatening the very existence of many of you. We are honoring our long term customers as best we can.
This has been very harmful to our business as well. We wish each of you success and sincerely hope we are able to earn your business through this difficult time.
http://www.fibreglast.com/carbonfibershortage
theres alot of information regarding companies facing shortage problems.
http://www.google.com/search?h...rtage
07-20-2006, 06:51 AM
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Re: (v4lu3s)
It's not just the pentagon, the big 3 are using carbon fiber hoods on the latest cars too. My Dad's Chevy HHR I know for a fact has a carbon fiber hood.
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07-20-2006, 07:32 AM
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wow....oh well, at least this might get rid of the wigger with the stock honda and the 2 foot 5 ft wingspan wing bolted off center and twisted to his trunk...
On the other side..too bad this didn't happen to JDM parts, like the japanese would stop shipping them because they suck so much on USDM cars -- that woulda been the cats meow for pple who JDM has no effect on like me, and like, half of H-T would commit suicide, I'd love to see it...
On the other side..too bad this didn't happen to JDM parts, like the japanese would stop shipping them because they suck so much on USDM cars -- that woulda been the cats meow for pple who JDM has no effect on like me, and like, half of H-T would commit suicide, I'd love to see it...
07-20-2006, 07:56 AM
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Re: (dpkelly)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dpkelly »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's not just the pentagon, the big 3 are using carbon fiber hoods on the latest cars too. My Dad's Chevy HHR I know for a fact has a carbon fiber hood.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Car hood vs 70,000 metric tons per plane x 100.
Not much of a comparison if you ask me.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Syndacate »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow....oh well, at least this might get rid of the wigger with the stock honda and the 2 foot 5 ft wingspan wing bolted off center and twisted to his trunk...
On the other side..too bad this didn't happen to JDM parts, like the japanese would stop shipping them because they suck so much on USDM cars -- that woulda been the cats meow for pple who JDM has no effect on like me, and like, half of H-T would commit suicide, I'd love to see it...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Those CF JDM parts are manufactured in the US.
Man, you are such a tard.
Car hood vs 70,000 metric tons per plane x 100.
Not much of a comparison if you ask me.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Syndacate »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow....oh well, at least this might get rid of the wigger with the stock honda and the 2 foot 5 ft wingspan wing bolted off center and twisted to his trunk...
On the other side..too bad this didn't happen to JDM parts, like the japanese would stop shipping them because they suck so much on USDM cars -- that woulda been the cats meow for pple who JDM has no effect on like me, and like, half of H-T would commit suicide, I'd love to see it...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Those CF JDM parts are manufactured in the US.
Man, you are such a tard.
07-20-2006, 08:13 AM
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Re: (Everyones Hero)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Everyones Hero »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Car hood vs 70,000 metric tons per plane x 100.
Not much of a comparison if you ask me.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's all about cost man. Heck newer "domestic" cars even have the lock on just one side! Like Depeche Mode says, "Everything counts in large amounts..."
Car hood vs 70,000 metric tons per plane x 100.
Not much of a comparison if you ask me.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's all about cost man. Heck newer "domestic" cars even have the lock on just one side! Like Depeche Mode says, "Everything counts in large amounts..."
07-20-2006, 09:40 AM
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Re: (Syndacate)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Syndacate »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow....oh well, at least this might get rid of the wigger with the stock honda and the 2 foot 5 ft wingspan wing bolted off center and twisted to his trunk...
On the other side..too bad this didn't happen to JDM parts, like the japanese would stop shipping them because they suck so much on USDM cars -- that woulda been the cats meow for pple who JDM has no effect on like me, and like, half of H-T would commit suicide, I'd love to see it...</TD></TR></TABLE>
This coming from the guy with this supposed setup: Stock 5sp '95 EX 97k CAI, Fireball catback, tuned ECU...buddy, you're about a quarter step ahead of the ricers we see every day. Get some real mod's, then complain about how you hate rice
On the other side..too bad this didn't happen to JDM parts, like the japanese would stop shipping them because they suck so much on USDM cars -- that woulda been the cats meow for pple who JDM has no effect on like me, and like, half of H-T would commit suicide, I'd love to see it...</TD></TR></TABLE>
This coming from the guy with this supposed setup: Stock 5sp '95 EX 97k CAI, Fireball catback, tuned ECU...buddy, you're about a quarter step ahead of the ricers we see every day. Get some real mod's, then complain about how you hate rice
07-20-2006, 12:45 PM
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Re: (Everyones Hero)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Everyones Hero »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Man, you are such a tard.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i second that
i second that
07-20-2006, 01:21 PM
#13
Go Tigers!
Re: (thahuhstunna)
bwhahaha this is the oldest trick in the book. Just like back in 97 when computer several companies advertised a RAM shortage, then RAM sales shot up. Supply and demand, it's not like more materials won't be manufactered when there's a big market for it
07-20-2006, 01:26 PM
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Unceasing Measure
Re: (thahuhstunna)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thahuhstunna »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i second that </TD></TR></TABLE>
Third...-ed
</TD></TR></TABLE>Third...-ed
07-20-2006, 02:03 PM
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Re: For those Carbon Fiber fans, something you should know. (sxeguy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sxeguy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">HOLY ****. WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>
...
...
07-20-2006, 02:09 PM
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Re: For those Carbon Fiber fans, something you should know. (thahuhstunna)
go to the nearest fallout shelter, fool!
eh, doesn't affect me that much (if at all). not a huge fan of CF myself....
eh, doesn't affect me that much (if at all). not a huge fan of CF myself....
07-20-2006, 03:51 PM
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Re: For those Carbon Fiber fans, something you should know. (rniederlando)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rniederlando »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">go to the nearest fallout shelter, fool!
eh, doesn't affect me that much (if at all). not a huge fan of CF myself....</TD></TR></TABLE>
WERD!!!
eh, doesn't affect me that much (if at all). not a huge fan of CF myself....</TD></TR></TABLE>
WERD!!!
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