Declectic

iTrader: (2)

whats up guys, i have a 2000 civic si, just recently got a exedy 9lb flywheel, awesome, but down fall is i cant really rely on downshifting to slow me down, and is all on the brakes now, i was thinkin of some new rotors..

i was chcekin into the AEM big brake kit, but my boy says they suck ***...

i dont really know whats out there as far as rotors go, what do you guys suggest?

Ricey McRicerton

Brembo blanks. Nuff said.

Declectic

iTrader: (2)

thats also what my boy told me, where can i get those??

jcarothers

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ricey McRicerton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Brembo blanks. Nuff said.</TD></TR></TABLE>
only good part my car has on it..

Jimmy

iTrader: (5)

Autozone is your friend

elwood

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ricey McRicerton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Brembo blanks. Nuff said.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think you would benifit more from better pads, then rotors
with your old pads.

Declectic

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by elwood &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I think you would benifit more from better pads, then rotors
with your old pads. </TD></TR></TABLE>

well, i would obvoiusly buy new pads with the rotors...


and autozone type r huh?? lol, ill check them out... they are my friends

Solracer

Get new rotors if you need them, flush you brake fluid, I would recomend valvoling dot 4 synthtech, get some new pads such as axxis ultimate's or carbotech bobcats, you can get the axxis from Andie @ http://www.cobaltfriction.com or Matt @ http://www.carbotech.com .

As far as the rotors I would get Oem replacment brembo's or autozone OEM replacments.

Declectic

iTrader: (2)

What about either one of these?? why does no one recommend these?

1 - Brembo Sport Slotted Brake Rotors
2 - Brembo Sport Cross Drilled Brake Rotors

also, with the brembo blanks, if i get the front and rears, are te rear rotors going to be as big as the front? because i know now, i have all wheel disk (stock on Si's as all of you know) the rear rotor is a tad bit smaller than the front same applies to the 2 i just listed above.

also, are there better calipers out there? or the OEM one is just fine?

thanks for the links on the brake pads solracer

The Internet Tough Guy

just get cheap autozone rotors, axxis ultimate pads, motul brake fluid, and some earls stainless steel lines. cross drilled and slotted is only for weight reduction - do a search, there was a good thread on this recently. rotors are a wear item, just get the cheapest ones available. your calipers are fine, but you could upgrade to some other oe honda ones if you wanted. the rear rotors will be smaller of course.

and i don't know why you think a light flywheel makes it harder to slow down - it makes it easier!!!! are you revmatching or just letting the clutch out? i think they sold you a heavy flywheel

SawBoss

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ricey McRicerton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Brembo blanks. Nuff said.</TD></TR></TABLE>
always choose QUALITY when it comes to your brakes. don't skimp!

Solracer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SeanJohn1802 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What about either one of these?? why does no one recommend these?

1 - Brembo Sport Slotted Brake Rotors
2 - Brembo Sport Cross Drilled Brake Rotors </TD></TR></TABLE>

Because they do not improve braking at all and are basically all for bling and a waste of money, they cross drilled rotors back when pads outgassed everytime they got hot, modern pads only do this once, when you are breaking them in, So save your money and just get blanks, they are also more prone to fail becuase of the holes or slots drilled/cut into them.

And yes I know some race cars run suchs as World Challenge but they can runs such oversized brakes that it is worth if them for the weight savings to cross drill there rotors.

Declectic

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jwn7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
and i don't know why you think a light flywheel makes it harder to slow down - it makes it easier!!!! are you revmatching or just letting the clutch out? i think they sold you a heavy flywheel </TD></TR></TABLE>

okay, someone is giong to have to convince me really good here...

when i think light weight flywheel vs oem 18lb flywheel, i think its going to spin FASTER

when i had the OEM flywheel, if i was diong like 80mph or sum'n and wanted to slow down, put it in third and let the clutch out a lil slower... and the flywheel heavy, slow down faster...


now if i did the same thing with my new 9lb flywheel, the RPMS are just going to shoot up quicker and not slow me down...

like my friend i let him take my car around the block, he just cruised for a second, no foot on the gas, and he said my car wasnt slowing down (hence the 9lb flywheel)

i persoally think that its not a good idea to use such a light weight flywheel for slowing you down...

so unless what i've said is COMPETELY untrue than im ****** lost


solracer, thanks for your input man, really helped out

mycivicstoo(s)low

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ricey McRicerton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Brembo blanks. Nuff said.</TD></TR></TABLE>Yep, cheap and high quality.

Targa250R

Get blanks, AutoZone, Honda, CarQuest, Brembo, whatever. They all work. A rotor's function is just as a heat sink and a hard, durable surface for the pads to contact. Don't bother spending extra for bling rotors.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jwn7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">cross drilled and slotted is only for weight reduction</TD></TR></TABLE>
Weight reduction? It's more for looks than anything. Weight reduction would be a bad thing for brakes for street use and road course use - the less mass in the brakes, the less heat they can dissipate. More mass is better for fade prevention, but of course bad for unsprung weight.

Some teams use slots to keep the pads clean for short races and severe conditions, but for street use they would just wear down pads unnecessarily.

Targa250R

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SeanJohn1802 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i persoally think that its not a good idea to use such a light weight flywheel for slowing you down...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Don't use the engine as your only means for slowing down, and you won't have to worry about it - use the brakes, that's what they're for. What costs more to replace, your brakes or your engine?

Declectic

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Don't use the engine as your only means for slowing down, and you won't have to worry about it - use the brakes, that's what they're for. What costs more to replace, your brakes or your engine?</TD></TR></TABLE>

thats what the **** i been tryin to say, thus why im doing the research on rotor's and brake pads n such

but everyone here seems to think that a 9lb flywheel will slow you down just like an 18lb flywheel ... i dont get it

The Internet Tough Guy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Weight reduction? It's more for looks than anything. Weight reduction would be a bad thing for brakes for street use and road course use - the less mass in the brakes, the less heat they can dissipate. More mass is better for fade prevention, but of course bad for unsprung weight.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes, weight reduction. i know i've read this in other threads, specifically in that one that came up recently: there was a real nice post about why rotors are cross drilled - i can't find it now, but here is a quote from willwood: http://www.willwood.com/products/rotors/rotors.asp
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by willwood &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wilwood specialty steel rotors are used when rapid thermal inputs occur and material stability is required (i.e. when a dragster must brake from 300 mph). Under such conditions specialty steels are used, often cross drilled to reduce rotational weight. Wilwood also manufactures dynamic mount rotors for Super Speedway applications as well as special limited duty street rod and pro series solid rotors.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i've also heard that cross drilled does help cooling, because the holes actually create little air vorticies when spinning fast. however, that is just something i've heard, and even if it is true, i would venture to guess that the amount of stopping performance you would gain from that to be very close to negligible.

EDIT: a good link about rotors: http://www.teamscr.com/rotors.htm ... apparently cross drilling actually makes them hotter. that air vorticies thing is bs.

anyways, cheap blanks are all you need - anything else is more or less a waste of money. you could even go search the autox forum, they'll confirm that blanks are adequate enough.

about the lightened flywheel:

first, you're downshifting wrong. read up on revmatching - just letting the clutch out like that isn't the proper way, because you are making your synchros spin the engine up, rather than getting it up to speed yourself. instead, blip the throttle to the proper rpm while in neutral (or with the clutch disengaged) and then pop it in gear.

second, are you familiar with the law of inertia? an object at rest has a tendency to stay at rest unless acted upon by an outside force. likewise, an object in motion has a tendency to stay in motion, unless acted upon by an outside force. force = mass X acceleration. so, as mass increases, inertia increases; and as mass decreases, inertia decreases. when you put a lightened flywheel on, you're decreasing the inertia of the rotating assembly; and therefore, allowing friction and gravity to have a more prevalent effect on your engine, thus slowing it down faster.

when you learn how to revmatch, you'll see what i'm talking about.

i encourage you to read up on it, search around for light flywheel or something to that effect. it's a fact that a light flywheel will slow your car down faster. this is in fact a very good thing too. but as targa said, use your brakes to stop - that's what they are for. however, you can use your engine to assist in braking as often as you'd like. i do it all day.


Modified by jwn7 at 1:05 AM 2/8/2004

Richard.

Cobalt GT-Sports or Axxis Ultimates, rotors w/ a lifetime warranty, and ATE super blue.

Targa250R

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Spoon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Cobalt GT-Sports or Axxis Ultimates, rotors w/ a lifetime warranty, and ATE super blue. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Hey, that's my street & autocross setup exactly

Jimmy

iTrader: (5)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Don't use the engine as your only means for slowing down, and you won't have to worry about it - use the brakes, that's what they're for. What costs more to replace, your brakes or your engine?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Excellent Point

Declectic

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jwn7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
second, are you familiar with the law of inertia? an object at rest has a tendency to stay at rest unless acted upon by an outside force. likewise, an object in motion has a tendency to stay in motion, unless acted upon by an outside force. force = mass X acceleration. so, as mass increases, inertia increases; and as mass decreases, inertia decreases. when you put a lightened flywheel on, you're decreasing the inertia of the rotating assembly; and therefore, allowing friction and gravity to have a more prevalent effect on your engine, thus slowing it down faster.

Modified by jwn7 at 1:05 AM 2/8/2004</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes i do, but it just doesnt apply to flywheels i guess, because if i drive side by side with another stock Si with an 18lb flywheel, and we cruise at 40mph, both let off of the gas at the same time (while left in gear, say 3rd gear) he's going to slow down faster than i am ... **** man, ill make a video of that **** if i have to prove that..

The Internet Tough Guy

the law of inertia applies to all matter - flywheels included. i guess the laws of physics magically cease to exist in your engine bay then. go make a video of that because issac newton and everyone who has ever opened a physics book wants to see it.

Declectic

iTrader: (2)

done

but its gonna be me and my 9lb flywheel in an Si and my boy in his all stock teg RS (so, 18lb flywheel im sure...)

ill post it up as soon as i can get a chance

mingbling

although you are correct about the laws of physics, you must realize how insignificant the 10 lbs people save when they go to a lighter flywheel.

True, the heavier the object is, the harder it is to accelerate it.. or decelerate it. That is the exact same reason why we see that a lighter flywheel revs considerably faster than a stock one, becuase of the weight dfference. quite frankly, it is easier to spin a ligther wheel than a heavier one.. duh
but what you fail to realize is that when you are talking aobut using your engine to slow down, the mass of the car is relatively the same and hence the inertia of a car moving at 40mph with and without a lightened flywheel is exactly the same.
Now, we apply using the engine to slow it down. How does an engine slow a car down by putting it into gear? Friction. friction of the gears meshing together + the friction of your engine spinning. What we are dealing with here is not just the simple newton's laws of physics, but centripetal force, which carries an equation
Fc=(massxvelocity)^2/radius. velocity, and radius doesnt change, only mass does. so obviously, a flywheel with more mass has more centripetal force.

What direction is this centripetal force directed towards? It is directed towards the path of the car. Both forces/inertia (the inertia of a moving car, and the force of the flywheel spinning) is working together in the direction of where the car is going. Friction, and ONLY friction is what can slow the car down. So it should be obvious that an engine with a heavier flywheel will require more force to slow it down as oppose to one with a lighter flywheel, which means that theoretically, an engine with a stock flywheel will take longer to slow down as oppose to one with a lightened flywheel.

what i have just explained pretty much backs up what jwn7 has said, but what I want to bring up to you is that do you realize that 10 pds off a flywheel is not that much when it comes to slowing down a car? Going back to the equation Fc= mv^2/r, you realize that mass is a constant and is a stable system (meaning the system will not diverge because of the value of the mass). What really matters most that will affect the system is the velocity since it is being squared. So bottom line is, theoretically your car should stop faster with a lightened flywheel, but in real life, you would not be able to feel much of a difference. You should also realize that once you put your car into gear, the weight of your tires literally becomes part of your flywheel also. so if you factor in all that, one should realize how insignificant 10 lbs really is when you also add in the amount of force requires to stop the entire car.
This concept can also be applied to accelerating a car. How little 10 lbs will make a difference. I'm telling you that even though u did install a lighter flywheel, you will not see much of a difference at all when you zip through your red line. Very littel difference. You might experience that your engine mite respond faster when its not in gear, but when its in gear and has the load of the total car, that extra 10 pds u saved isnt going to do much of a difference that you can tell, maybe a little, but very little. Most improvement is all in the head of the owner. After all, If i spend $300 on a flywheel, it better make a big difference right? Who likes telling themselves they just wasted money. The mind can play a lot of tricks. Another way of getting the same effect of a lightened flywheel is to lighten your tires/rim combo by 10lbs and/or making the diamter of your tire/rim combo smaller.
Yes, you can show us a video and prove that your car takes longer to stop than your friend. There are also very many reasons that can be so. worn wheel bearings, your car might be lighter, his brakes might be rubbing a little.. etc.


Modified by mingbling at 7:40 AM 2/9/2004


Modified by mingbling at 7:52 AM 2/9/2004