snezze21

alright here is my question i have a 98 civic ex coupe. and i want to put this as my starter kit wat do u guys think? http://www.procivic.com/pages-....html . its a Tien Basic suspension kit its cheap and sounds good for a starter.

JDM KID 510

Tien are great.

But check out procivic have a good feedback.

Brick Top

good stuff.

MasterKwan

You'd be better off with Koni-Yellows and ground controls. Easy to fix, good up to 550 lbs/in. Track tested and adjustable. These aren't even damping adjustable.

Might cost $100 more.

instrument

i second master kwan.

snezze21

koni yellows hmmm alright ill check that out do u kno where i can find info on it like the test results?

vtec4lyfe

good choice to start with coilovers!

MasterKwan

What kind of test results? I believe Honda-tech had shock dyno graphs on the Yellows at one point. You get the shocks, Tire rack sells them. Then you go to ground control and tell them you want coilovers for these shocks. Then you tell them what spring rate you want or use their recommended spring rates.

The recommended rates are good for the streets. I run 550 lbs/in front and 385 lbs/in back. That might be too stiff for some.

Springs aren't too expensive and you can always change the rates later to anything you want. With the Tiens, you don't even know how much of a spring they can take.

Another good thing, say you blow a shock. In the Tiens, you have to send them back in and you're walking for 2 weeks while they get rebuilt. For the Koni's you can just buy a new one from Tire Rack and it'll be there next day (though I believe the Koni's have a lifetime warranty).

bmoua

i'm guessing its a DD so ground controls with kyb adj/illuminas/koni shocks...

snezze21

oh i never thought of that like when ur shocks blow and how long will it take for u to get a new set hmm. well i was like wondering if like any website or magazines do comparisons on which is better or something like that. yeah thxs fo the insite kwan.

MasterKwan

I had an Apexi N1 coilover kit on my R which at the time cost $1900. It was on the car when I bought it. Front right was totally blown. I called them up and tried to get an RMA on a repair, which I would have to pay for ($100 or so, close to the price of a Koni yellow), I couldn't get those F'ers to get me an RMA# to return them. I couldn't even get the Apexi manual in English. It soured me on Apexi and started my down the GC/Koni path.

snezze21

yeah i dont think that the ground controls will do for my car cuz im gonna have a sub in it and at times full car load of passangers. what im afraid is it might just snap or something.

evolutionglitch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by snezze21 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah i dont think that the ground controls will do for my car cuz im gonna have a sub in it and at times full car load of passangers. what im afraid is it might just snap or something.</TD></TR></TABLE>

LOL!! Koni Yellows and Ground Controls are built for WAY more abuse than that! They are a good setup! A REALLY GOOD SETUP! Besides... if you think you might bottom out for some reason then stiffen the struts or raise them g/c's up!... I'd deffinately go with Koni Yellows and Ground Controls... however if you want a smooth ride that will handle a bunch better than stock you could also consider H&R Sports with KYB AGX's... Not as good at handling as yeelows and g/c's but pretty damn good none the same.

Just dont get KYB and g/c's cause too stiff a spring on your struts will wear them hard and be hella bouncy...

just remember it's your car, do what you want, and dont skimp if your budget allows cause youll only pay for it later...

MasterKwan

What he said. My spring rates are close to 3 times as stiff as stock rates. The suspension just doesn't cycle much unless I'm on the track and pushing it. Some people run as high as 1200 lbs/in on GC Koni's.

You may simply be better off with a set of lowering springs. Less to mess with, stiffer than stock and impossible to F up.

snezze21

ok so lets say i do get the koni yellow's and the g/c. i hear that u have to buy a chamber kit or is that only if u do hardcore racing?

MasterKwan

Who's filling you with all this bad information?

You buy them and bolt them on. To adjust the ride height, you don't even need to take the wheels off. You jack it up enough to unload the suspension, reach behind the wheel with the proper allen wrench to losen the collar then screw it up or down. Seems to be about 1/8" per rotation. Then tighten the collar back down.

Haha chamber = camber I get it now.

With ANY suspension, you might need a camber kit if you go low enough. I have about 1.4 negative up front and 2.5 in the back. On the track this gives me even tire temps across the whole width of the tires.

I Shot 50 Cent

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by snezze21 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok so lets say i do get the koni yellow's and the g/c. i hear that u have to buy a chamber kit or is that only if u do hardcore racing?</TD></TR></TABLE>

You need a camber kit to correct the negative camber you'll get from lowering the car past OEM spec. It has nothing to do with "hardcore" anything. Unless you want to eat through your tires unevenly every couple months, its a sure fire investment and should be automatically budgeted into your suspension plans.

No matter which suspension package you end up getting, after installation you take it somewhere to get it aligned. If you're lower than say 1.5" your camber WILL be out of OEM spec and your tires will be a bit bowed out. The camber kit allows you to adjust the camber back within OEM spec. They're generally for the front of the car as the rear can be put back into spec by adding a few washers.

snezze21

alright i c that you have 2 buy a camber kit not chamber wow i cant believe i wrote that. but the kit is only 100 bucks ish so yeah but i have another question wat is the diff if any from theses and a coilover set?

I Shot 50 Cent

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by snezze21 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">alright i c that you have 2 buy a camber kit not chamber wow i cant believe i wrote that. but the kit is only 100 bucks ish so yeah but i have another question wat is the diff if any from theses and a coilover set?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't get it. The difference between a camber kit and a coilover set? I don't mean this in a negative way but I will give you all the help/information you need regarding suspension, I'm just not sure what you're asking.

And there is no dumb questions man...everyone is here to learn. Ask any suspension question that you have in this thread and myself, or someone else will explain things the best we can. I love educating people with correct information so ask all the questions you may have.

snezze21

hahahha man im off on spelling first i cant spell camber right i put chamber now i put camber kit instead of the koni/ gc kit. ok so let me restate my question. my question is wat is the difference between the koni y/ gc kit and a decent set of coilover for instance from tien.

I Shot 50 Cent

Well, there's really no difference other than the "true coilover" setups you see have been perfectly matched from the factory to work with each other. This way you won't have to worry about choosing a shock that cannot handle the spring rates of the springs/coilover sleeves that you have chosen to put together.

As far as the Koni Yellows go, they are fully adjustable and can handle the relatively high spring rates of coilover sleeves such as Ground Control, Skunk2, Omni Power, etc.. So those 2 that you mentioned will actually work very well together.

But if you are unsure as to what type of springs/coils will match which shock perfectly then I would suggest just buying a "true" coilover, which will come from the factory matched with a shock that is usually adjustable along with the coil so you won't worry about blowing the shock, etc.

I just realized that I may have gotten technical with the terms I was using, so I'll let you know what each one means...

Spring = Just the coiled peice of metal that stands by itself and must be matched to a shock. A spring is not adjustable and will come with a pre-determined drop. There are various spring rates and must be chosen depending on what you plan to do with them, for example daily driving, occasional autocross/racing, drag...etc.

Shock = Whether adjustable or not, these are what gives you the "bumpy", or "smooth/rough" ride and must also be chosen depending on how low you decide to drop the car and what types of spring rates you'll be matching them up with. Adjustable shocks can be adjusted to be firmer or softer depending on what you're looking to get from them.

Coilover Sleeve = Simply the adjustable spring by itself with no shock matched. These can be adjusted usually anywhere from 0"-4" depending on the brand. Because they can be adjusted the spring rates are generally higher and must be paired with a better quality shock than your basic non-adjustable run of the mill shock as the higher models of shocks are valved to handle the higher spring rates of the coils. Example...Ground Control, or Skunk2, among MANY others.

True Coilover = These are the "expensive" setups that include the coilover sleeve, AND the appropriate shock that has been pre-matched from the factory to work very well with each other. On most models, both the sleeve AND the shock itself are adjustable.

If you have any other basic questions or want to improve your knowledge overall, check out Honda-Techs suspension forum and look at the stickied posts at the top of the forum. There are usually "basic info" threads that will help out TREMENDOUSLY. I find it much better to educate myself on what each general feature does, and WHY you need it or do not need it. After I learn as much as I can about what I am about to purchase, it will help me to decide on which product is right for ME, and not just buying something because someone told me to buy it.

Something like suspension is WAY too important, and varies so much from person to person depending on what they plan on using it for. For instance, if someone praises the highest model Tein true coilover and I purchase it just off of that opinion...I may be in for a rude awakening because that setup is made for a perfectly smooth track and for the racer that setup is AMAZING, but when I try to drive my car on the streets....the fillings in my teeth are coming out because the setup is so stiff. So what I may love...you may absolutely HATE yourself for buying, regardless of the price.


I hope this helped you out, and we're always here if you have any other questions. As I said before, the suspension setup in your car can either MAKE or BREAK how much you enjoy driving your car.

snezze21

wow thxs yeah ok cool. well yeah i did some research and ive come to my conclusion on wat type of supsension i want on my car. i want something that is giong to b driveable because i am going to b driving it on the streets all the time. but i wanna lower the car just about 1" or 1.5" and take out the crazy body roll in the car. i dunno if u guys remember when u got ur civic but mine has insane body roll and it scares the crap out of me. lol so after what u said 50 cent i THINK the koni and gc will b good wat do u think?

I Shot 50 Cent

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by snezze21 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow thxs yeah ok cool. well yeah i did some research and ive come to my conclusion on wat type of supsension i want on my car. i want something that is giong to b driveable because i am going to b driving it on the streets all the time. but i wanna lower the car just about 1" or 1.5" and take out the crazy body roll in the car. i dunno if u guys remember when u got ur civic but mine has insane body roll and it scares the crap out of me. lol so after what u said 50 cent i THINK the koni and gc will b good wat do u think?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think you'll love the setup, especially with the Koni's set to a really soft setting, and a mild drop with the Ground Controls. At 1.5" inches you may not even need the camber kit. So I would purchase the setup and install it...then take it to a shop to get it aligned and go from there before you spend the money on the camber kit. Although I must tell you, I personally think for a basic daily driver with a drop that mild....the package you're thinking about may be a bit of overkill, which isnt a BAD thing, haha...but if all you want is a mild drop on a daily driver with a soft ride...that can be had much cheaper.

If you have any other questions...just ask though. Thats what we're here for.


If I may SUGGEST what I would do in your situation...I would purchase the Tokico Illumina adjustable shock, OR the KYB AGX adjustable and mate either of those up with a Neuspeed OR H&R sport springs. They're non adjustable springs however they have a nice and soft spring rate, that either of those shocks can handle perfectly...and it should drive VERY close to stock. Both of those springs lower around 1.5"-1.75" so I personally think It'll be perfect for what you're looking for.

When I had my Integra, I used the Neuspeed Sports, and the AGX's and after alignment I personally did not need a camber kit, and I thought the ride was almost stock feel, but with all the "bad" stuff taken out...plus it was nice and low, but not TOOO low to where I couldnt go over speedbumps and bullshit like that. Plus its a pretty cheap setup and you'll save yourself like 400 bucks over the Koni Yellows and the Ground Controls. This is my personal preference though, and the setup you mentioned will give you the same..just more adjustability and cost a decent amount more.

snezze21

alright so now on to the next question wat do u tink is a good price? i saw it on weaksauce.org for 800 bucks i thought that was kinda steep wat u tink ?

I Shot 50 Cent

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by snezze21 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">alright so now on to the next question wat do u tink is a good price? i saw it on weaksauce.org for 800 bucks i thought that was kinda steep wat u tink ?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'd say its about 150-200 too much, but who knows.