obuhmyuh

recently changed out my cylinder head with a new one and threw in a crower cam, and sk2 cam gear, and now my idle is all messed up. cleaned my iacv, and ill probably clean/check my fitv next. i replaced my HG with a new one and bolted everything to spec. i have a new IM gasket coming in tomorrow to replace my existing one... the only thing i noticed on my old IM gasket was a small crack which i figure wouldnt cause a surging idle...

1CaMw0nDeR

Did you double check the timing?

obuhmyuh

triple checked

although it was a little hard to do with the aftermarket cam gear, but yes i made sure that the horizontal marks were parallel with the deck head.

1CaMw0nDeR

Good **** dude, that's a step some of us just accidently skip over in a rush to get our car started lol... And yeah dude, a cracked gasket would MOST DEFINITELY give you a shitty idle... What exactly is it doing..?? like up down up down up down ect..?? Or is it just out of wack like irregularly high/low..??

obuhmyuh

well it went from a surging idle, to now its loping and sounds like a wrx. compression is as follows: (cyl #1-4) - 90 - 120 - 190 - 190... i can hear a slight hiss from what sounds like the back of my IM. My theory is the gasket was cracked between the runners of cyl 1 and 2 (crack was very very very minor), so the new gasket should be here tomorrow... i sure as **** hope its just the gasket, i just had new valves put in my head and id hate to have it turn out to be a bent valve when i was being soooo careful setting my timing...

anything else i should keep in mind guys???

(thanks once again 1camw0nder)

1CaMw0nDeR

No problem man, i'll help you as much as i can without being there to explain things in person lol...

Does the car smoke at all..?? Did you try to put a lil bit of motor oil in the cylinders and repeat the compression test to see if the #'s improve any..?? You also did the compression test in the right manner too correct..?? "warm engine, throttle fully opened, made sure all valves were adjusted to best of your knowledge"..??

obuhmyuh

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1CaMw0nDeR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No problem man, i'll help you as much as i can without being there to explain things in person lol...

Does the car smoke at all..?? Did you try to put a lil bit of motor oil in the cylinders and repeat the compression test to see if the #'s improve any..?? You also did the compression test in the right manner too correct..?? "warm engine, throttle fully opened, made sure all valves were adjusted to best of your knowledge"..??</TD></TR></TABLE>

car doesn't smoke at all, indicating good hg seal. i was thinking about putting oil in the cylinders but since 2 were effected similarly i moved on to other things than piston rings... (since they weren't a problem before). Compression test was done with a warm motor, WOT, and with the ECU fuse removed (dizzy unplugged). Valve lash was done per crower's specs (.008 in/ .01 ex)....

oneiro

Wow, those are some numbers on the compression test, have you done a leak down test?

1CaMw0nDeR

Did you get to that intake mani gasket today..?? I'd first replace all possible suspects such as cracked gaskets that are visibly fubarred lol... Than go from there, cuz any imperfections in seals/gaskets well most definitely cause idle issues...

obuhmyuh

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1CaMw0nDeR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Did you get to that intake mani gasket today..?? I'd first replace all possible suspects such as cracked gaskets that are visibly fubarred lol... Than go from there, cuz any imperfections in seals/gaskets well most definitely cause idle issues... </TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah those numbers are really shitty... i just did the test again (engine cold this time) and reset my timing again (PITA), #1 cyl was 30 #2 was really low too like 60 and #3 was 210. WTF... gasket isnt in yet but i need to leave for work in 15 min so hopefully its here when i get back tonight, and i can install it, if not i gotta wait untill mon to install it... Im gonna call the head shop that i had the head surfaced and valved at and see if they can help me (if they're open on sat).

Keep these coming please...

1CaMw0nDeR

Hmmmm, were you able to check your fuel pressure..??? Possibly main relay took a **** on you "yeah sounds out there but it's definitely worth the 10 seconds to check it out".... Also, what condition are your spark plugs in..??

obuhmyuh

swapped the plugs from those cylinders with the ones from working cylinders and spare plugs too... fuel pump primes... and a fuel problem wouldn't cause low compression in just 2 cylinders, which is why my focus is on some kind of vacuum leak... which stumps me...

my thoughts are limited to:

bad IM gasket, bent valve (cylinder head was just re-valved - not likely), head gasket not sealing properly (not likely everything was done to spec)

1CaMw0nDeR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by obuhmyuh &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">swapped the plugs from those cylinders with the ones from working cylinders and spare plugs too... fuel pump primes... and a fuel problem wouldn't cause low compression in just 2 cylinders , which is why my focus is on some kind of vacuum leak... which stumps me...

my thoughts are limited to:

bad IM gasket, bent valve (cylinder head was just re-valved - not likely), head gasket not sealing properly (not likely everything was done to spec)</TD></TR></TABLE>

About the fuel pressure part, i was askin my homeboy who runs a dyno shop and he's the one that mentioned that to me because on his 95 gsr'd hatch his main relay went bad and for some reason his compression was 30, 60, 160, 160 so he changed his main relay and it solved his problem... But he also tried droppin a lil bit of oil in the 2 low cylinders an that might have helped raise the compression up a bit also...

The headgasket being bad however wouldnt smoke unless the car was warmed up for about 5-10 minutes which is something i forgot to ask because u said it doesnt smoke, but do you let it run long enough to get warm enough to be able to smoke..???

The valves being bent or whatever wouldn't be such a suprise to me because I have seen heads leave machine shops before after fresh port&polish an valve job, an been fubarred...

I'm just tryna throw some extra ideas at ya for stuff to think about, its just hard like i said when i cant be like right there an see for myself ya know.. "even tho ur explinations are awesome.. "

obuhmyuh

yeah, i dropped some oil in there just see whats up and it didnt effect the test at all. i guess ill let it warm up for a while when i get to my house... i drove it the other day though (engine warm) and i saw no white smoke... I'm thinking if the valves were to be bent, wouldn't they be bent in the 1/3 and 2/4 cylinders (paired up like that) and not 1/2... Because of the way that the pistons move...

obuhmyuh

the guys over on d-series.org all seem to think its a HG issue


http://www.d-series.org/forums...69725

1CaMw0nDeR

That was my first impression was that it was a HG issue but u were saying it was just replaced and didn't think it was that so I was moving onto other culprits...

freakasis

did you get ALL of the old gasket off? even a tiny piece would mess it up. also what kind of head gasket? was it a cheap one? do a leak down test to see where the pressure is going. iv seen i/m gasket mess up idle but never mess up compression.

1CaMw0nDeR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by freakasis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">did you get ALL of the old gasket off? even a tiny piece would mess it up. also what kind of head gasket? was it a cheap one? do a leak down test to see where the pressure is going. iv seen i/m gasket mess up idle but never mess up compression.</TD></TR></TABLE>

what do u mean by "is it a cheap one"..??? I've used about 50 head gaskets from autozone, napa, advanced auto ect and never had a problem... That's also considering that they've ranged from d15-d16's all the way to b20/vtec swaps, still no issues...

obuhmyuh

idk about cheap i ordered it through rockauto i think... i did a half-assed leakdown and can't hear any air seeping out anywhere... all i can hear is the air passing through my CAI and even more so when i open it WOT...

gsrhatch2356

You have a head gasket problem. If it were just a vaccum leak then it wouldnt effect your compression numbers. although bent valves can do the same thing either way the head needs to come back off the valves need to be checked and then try again cause nothings going to cause those numbers but rings, valves, or head gasket. if it was a timming issue you wouldnt have 190 on one clyinder, theres no way to get that good of compression with bad timming.

obuhmyuh

true... thanks bro, i guess i gotta pull if off... im also going to pull all of my plugs and if air comes out, then its definately a bad HG, huh?

obuhmyuh

and assuming it is a HG problem, where do u think i went wrong with the install?? it was installed the right way up with everything aligned and bolts were properly torqued...

1CaMw0nDeR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by obuhmyuh &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and assuming it is a HG problem, where do u think i went wrong with the install?? it was installed the right way up with everything aligned and bolts were properly torqued...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Man theres quite a few reasons that a brand new headgasket wouldnt seat right... "not all the old gasket was scraped off the head an block, the new headgasket was faulty upon purchase, the new headgasket somehow got creased or difformed prior to install, the head-bolts werent torqued all the way to spec, ect".... I was going to suggest taking it off and replacing that gasket anyways but didn't want you to be in for more work than necessary if you were thinking it was something else... But yeah basically what dude just said, start from scratch and step by step see if any issues are noticeable... About the only way to find the solution... GL with that it may sound horrific but really I think with us more experienced folks takin off a head isnt as bad as it seems lol, usually took me about an hour or so back in the rookie years, now its like 15 minutes lol...

gsrhatch2356

One thing I would reconmend is getting the head checked for squareness. I cant remember but I think you said it was a new head right? If it set on a shelf for to long then it could have warped from the wieght or from sitting flat, all heads should be sat on there sides if the are going to be sat there for extened periods. Also putting 30w oil on the threads of the head bolts would insure proper torque. Maybe the bolts are stretched? have you checked the length of each one, when you do it again try and lay them side by side and make sure they are all the same length. If I were you when you get to the point of putting it back together dont worry about putting anything back on like intake manifold, exhaust manifold or timming cover. just put the timming belt on and do your compression test that way you dont waste a bunch of time when you can verify the repair before you do a bunch of work. Good Luck

obuhmyuh

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gsrhatch2356 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">One thing I would reconmend is getting the head checked for squareness. I cant remember but I think you said it was a new head right? If it set on a shelf for to long then it could have warped from the wieght or from sitting flat, all heads should be sat on there sides if the are going to be sat there for extened periods. Also putting 30w oil on the threads of the head bolts would insure proper torque. Maybe the bolts are stretched? have you checked the length of each one, when you do it again try and lay them side by side and make sure they are all the same length. If I were you when you get to the point of putting it back together dont worry about putting anything back on like intake manifold, exhaust manifold or timming cover. just put the timming belt on and do your compression test that way you dont waste a bunch of time when you can verify the repair before you do a bunch of work. Good Luck</TD></TR></TABLE>

the hg was delivered in between some rigid cardboard, so i dont think it could have been creased... my haynes recommended using a tap to chase through the threads but i couldn't find one that was the right size, so i used some PB blaster instead... and wouldn't not having an IM effect my compression test? the head was just resurfaced and revalved... looks like ill be pulling it and taking it to my machine shop to ensure nothing is bent, and ill order some new bolts...

im planning on using the HG again, i think i spent like 40 bucks on it (sounds right)... would anything like missing dowel pins effect anything? i mean all of the bolts when in perfectly, sounds kinda stupid but i only saw 2 dowel pins when i was lining up the head with the block... and there werent any stuck to my old head...

tomorrows plan is to check my valve lash and if that doesnt effect anything (im certain it wont) ill start pulling **** apart...