Stock 00 civic ex with blown D16y8 - Will D16y5 run with the EX ECU, harness, and IM?
10-18-2010, 09:23 PM
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D16y8 to D16y5 swap ***SOLVED***
I have a Stock 2000 civic ex with a blown D16y8 engine.
I was planning on replacing the longblock with a D16y5 civic hx engine.
Will the D16y5 engine run correctly if the ex ecu, harness, and intake manifold are retained, or will I have issues because of the Vtec-e?
Sorry if this has been covered, but I have not found a straight answer in my searches.
Thanks,
Jason
pics:
intake manifold gaskets
top=y8
bottom=y5,y7 etc
y5 cam
y5 valvetrain with roller rockers
y8 valvetrain with lost motions
y5 manual intake manifold with 2-wire IACV and EGR
my cat with sunglasses
I was planning on replacing the longblock with a D16y5 civic hx engine.
Will the D16y5 engine run correctly if the ex ecu, harness, and intake manifold are retained, or will I have issues because of the Vtec-e?
Sorry if this has been covered, but I have not found a straight answer in my searches.
Thanks,
Jason
pics:
intake manifold gaskets
top=y8
bottom=y5,y7 etc
y5 cam
y5 valvetrain with roller rockers
y8 valvetrain with lost motions
y5 manual intake manifold with 2-wire IACV and EGR
my cat with sunglasses
Last edited by TheCheeseWedge; 11-09-2010 at 07:43 PM.
10-19-2010, 08:58 AM
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Re: Stock 00 civic ex with blown D16y8 - Will D16y5 run with the EX ECU, harness, and
Its going to run weird, if your Y8 head is still good the bottom ends are the same though.
10-20-2010, 03:05 AM
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Re: Stock 00 civic ex with blown D16y8 - Will D16y5 run with the EX ECU, harness, and
The easiest would be to swap the blocks. If you want to run the y5 head and intake manifold you'll also need to run the 5 wire o2 sensor along with the p2n ecu. The 96-00 hx's are obd2a whereas all the other civics 99-00 obd2b so you will run into a few issues there.
afaik the y5 and y8 blocks and internals are exactly the same and have no difference other than the engine code stamped into the block. The only main differences being the head, intake manifold, egr, and o2 sensor so if you just swap the block the ecu won't know any different.
afaik the y5 and y8 blocks and internals are exactly the same and have no difference other than the engine code stamped into the block. The only main differences being the head, intake manifold, egr, and o2 sensor so if you just swap the block the ecu won't know any different.
10-20-2010, 04:50 AM
#5
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Re: Stock 00 civic ex with blown D16y8 - Will D16y5 run with the EX ECU, harness, and
I really hate speaking in generalities, as in, having not done the swap first-hand or witnessed one, etc.
BUT!
I'm trying to think of reasons why it would not run decently, and I can't think of any.
Someone posted:
...but if the Y8 manifold and sensors will bolt up to the Y5 head (does it?) and he runs the EX ECU then it won't even look for the 5 wire wide band o2 sensor. I believe the OP was saying he is simply swapping in the "long block" which means just the head and block. He would be retaining the EX IM, Exhaust manifold, harness, sensors, ECU, etc.
One of the potential issues I can think of would be that the Y5 head and intake manifold had an EGR system. I would mock up the Y8 IM on the Y5 head and make sure that the EGR passage on the Y5 head is covered/blocked off by the Y8 IM. If it's not you could tap the EGR passage in the Y5 head, run a bolt into it with thread tape, then cut/grind off the head of the bolt to effectively block the EGR passage on the Y5 head.
I'm just thinking out loud...
BUT!
I'm trying to think of reasons why it would not run decently, and I can't think of any.
Someone posted:
If you want to run the y5 head and intake manifold you'll also need to run the 5 wire o2 sensor along with the p2n ecu.
One of the potential issues I can think of would be that the Y5 head and intake manifold had an EGR system. I would mock up the Y8 IM on the Y5 head and make sure that the EGR passage on the Y5 head is covered/blocked off by the Y8 IM. If it's not you could tap the EGR passage in the Y5 head, run a bolt into it with thread tape, then cut/grind off the head of the bolt to effectively block the EGR passage on the Y5 head.
I'm just thinking out loud...
10-20-2010, 05:47 AM
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Re: Stock 00 civic ex with blown D16y8 - Will D16y5 run with the EX ECU, harness, and
I really hate speaking in generalities, as in, having not done the swap first-hand or witnessed one, etc.
BUT!
I'm trying to think of reasons why it would not run decently, and I can't think of any.
Someone posted:
...but if the Y8 manifold and sensors will bolt up to the Y5 head (does it?) and he runs the EX ECU then it won't even look for the 5 wire wide band o2 sensor. I believe the OP was saying he is simply swapping in the "long block" which means just the head and block. He would be retaining the EX IM, Exhaust manifold, harness, sensors, ECU, etc.
One of the potential issues I can think of would be that the Y5 head and intake manifold had an EGR system. I would mock up the Y8 IM on the Y5 head and make sure that the EGR passage on the Y5 head is covered/blocked off by the Y8 IM. If it's not you could tap the EGR passage in the Y5 head, run a bolt into it with thread tape, then cut/grind off the head of the bolt to effectively block the EGR passage on the Y5 head.
I'm just thinking out loud...
BUT!
I'm trying to think of reasons why it would not run decently, and I can't think of any.
Someone posted:
...but if the Y8 manifold and sensors will bolt up to the Y5 head (does it?) and he runs the EX ECU then it won't even look for the 5 wire wide band o2 sensor. I believe the OP was saying he is simply swapping in the "long block" which means just the head and block. He would be retaining the EX IM, Exhaust manifold, harness, sensors, ECU, etc.
One of the potential issues I can think of would be that the Y5 head and intake manifold had an EGR system. I would mock up the Y8 IM on the Y5 head and make sure that the EGR passage on the Y5 head is covered/blocked off by the Y8 IM. If it's not you could tap the EGR passage in the Y5 head, run a bolt into it with thread tape, then cut/grind off the head of the bolt to effectively block the EGR passage on the Y5 head.
I'm just thinking out loud...
The op is in cali so I don't know how thats going to turn out because he'll have to get it smogged and they'll see it has a y5 engine but no egr valve...
^^ just thinking out loud as I live totally over across the other side but hopefully someone with more knowledge of their rules will chime in.
Last edited by Kista20; 10-20-2010 at 06:38 AM.
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10-20-2010, 06:34 AM
#8
Former Moderator
Re: Stock 00 civic ex with blown D16y8 - Will D16y5 run with the EX ECU, harness, and
Oops didn't see that OP is in Cali.
I'd be looking for a Y8 engine then...
Oh and for anyone else reading I'm not saying that a Y8 ECU will run a Y5 without incident.
I'd be looking for a Y8 engine then...
Oh and for anyone else reading I'm not saying that a Y8 ECU will run a Y5 without incident.
10-20-2010, 06:37 AM
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Re: Stock 00 civic ex with blown D16y8 - Will D16y5 run with the EX ECU, harness, and
My biggest concern is the vtec vs vtec-e thing. Vtec-e runs in 12 valve mode until about 2500RPM when the ECU sends a signal to the vtec solenoid, at this point its running in 16 valve mode. Vtec on the other hand starts out in 16 valve mode and then at around 4800RPM switches over to the high lift cam profile. If you run a Y8 ECU its going to run in 12 valve mode until about 4800RPM when it will switch over to 16 valve mode. I'm guessing its going to choke pretty bad between 2500RPM and 4800RPM and then only make power till about 6500RPM.
10-20-2010, 07:58 AM
#10
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Re: Stock 00 civic ex with blown D16y8 - Will D16y5 run with the EX ECU, harness, and
My biggest concern is the vtec vs vtec-e thing. Vtec-e runs in 12 valve mode until about 2500RPM when the ECU sends a signal to the vtec solenoid, at this point its running in 16 valve mode. Vtec on the other hand starts out in 16 valve mode and then at around 4800RPM switches over to the high lift cam profile. If you run a Y8 ECU its going to run in 12 valve mode until about 4800RPM when it will switch over to 16 valve mode. I'm guessing its going to choke pretty bad between 2500RPM and 4800RPM and then only make power till about 6500RPM.
Would the Y5 still run in 12 valve "E" mode without the Y5 ECU? If it's a VTEC solenoid thing could not the Y8 VTEC solenoid be employed to eliminate the "E" mode altogether?
Yes this absolutely shows my ignorance of the VTEC-E concept/operation, but I'm just thinking out loud.
10-20-2010, 08:02 AM
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Re: Stock 00 civic ex with blown D16y8 - Will D16y5 run with the EX ECU, harness, and
Yes this absolutely shows my ignorance of the VTEC-E concept/operation, but I'm just thinking out loud.[/quote]
10-21-2010, 06:26 PM
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Re: Stock 00 civic ex with blown D16y8 - Will D16y5 run with the EX ECU, harness, and
ok sorry its been a bit. Thanks for the replies!
-yes I am in cali and from what I understand it doesnt matter if it is an hx engine in my car for smog if it was an option for my year car to have that engine (hx civic) then it is legal to smog much like putting a b16 in my car from an SI model
-The only differences I found between the y8 and y5 is the intake manifold with the egr. The complete egr system was on the intake manifold (there is a little check ball bearing thing between #2 and #3 intake ports on the head but that is on both y8 and y5 (not found on the dx) but like I said I was just switching out the head and block so I reused the original y8 intake manifold
-I have no clue about vtec-e either. from what I gathered from searching (could be wrong)
is that the cam has a different profile than the y8, it has roller rockers, it has a rev limit of 5k rpms, and vtec engages 3k rpms. From what I noticed the head is stamped on both p2p one says p2p-2 and one says p2p-4
and everything else is the same even the oil pans.
So I ended up just throwing the y5 in like I was asking about and crossing my fingers lol
basically what I have now is:
-idles at a rock solid 1500rpms will not budge from there
-when rolling on the throttle I free rev at 2500 rpms it will bog and bounce back down the 1500 and back up and is really jolty.
-when I am driving I roll onto the throttle through the rpms it litterally will stop and bog down at 5k rpms
-When I free rev it hard vtec engages at 5500 rpms and will bog out and want to rev down
-I have played with the timing on the distributer at idle no change in tone no change in hesitation when driving
-I have played with the idle screw on the throttle body no change
-I have unplugged the IACV while idling no change
....in the end my car feels like it has an airleak, I think the cam is wrong for the fuel/ignition maps of the ecu causing the bogging at 5k rpms. It can pprobably be fixed changing out the rocker arms and cam or engine harness and ecu So yeah stupid swap stupid car! its up for sale now lol Thanks for the help
-yes I am in cali and from what I understand it doesnt matter if it is an hx engine in my car for smog if it was an option for my year car to have that engine (hx civic) then it is legal to smog much like putting a b16 in my car from an SI model
-The only differences I found between the y8 and y5 is the intake manifold with the egr. The complete egr system was on the intake manifold (there is a little check ball bearing thing between #2 and #3 intake ports on the head but that is on both y8 and y5 (not found on the dx) but like I said I was just switching out the head and block so I reused the original y8 intake manifold
-I have no clue about vtec-e either. from what I gathered from searching (could be wrong)
is that the cam has a different profile than the y8, it has roller rockers, it has a rev limit of 5k rpms, and vtec engages 3k rpms. From what I noticed the head is stamped on both p2p one says p2p-2 and one says p2p-4
and everything else is the same even the oil pans.
So I ended up just throwing the y5 in like I was asking about and crossing my fingers lol
basically what I have now is:
-idles at a rock solid 1500rpms will not budge from there
-when rolling on the throttle I free rev at 2500 rpms it will bog and bounce back down the 1500 and back up and is really jolty.
-when I am driving I roll onto the throttle through the rpms it litterally will stop and bog down at 5k rpms
-When I free rev it hard vtec engages at 5500 rpms and will bog out and want to rev down
-I have played with the timing on the distributer at idle no change in tone no change in hesitation when driving
-I have played with the idle screw on the throttle body no change
-I have unplugged the IACV while idling no change
....in the end my car feels like it has an airleak, I think the cam is wrong for the fuel/ignition maps of the ecu causing the bogging at 5k rpms. It can pprobably be fixed changing out the rocker arms and cam or engine harness and ecu So yeah stupid swap stupid car! its up for sale now lol Thanks for the help
10-31-2010, 02:27 PM
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Re: Stock 00 civic ex with blown D16y8 - Will D16y5 run with the EX ECU, harness, and
***UPDATE***
so the car didnt sell so I decided to go through and try and make it work
I have been researching a ton and finally solved the problem. the car runs perfect now.
here is a breakdown of what was going on.
vtec-e: 16 valve engine. operates with 2 exhaust valves and 1 intake valve open operating as a 12 valve engine. At 3000 rpms the vtec solenoid is activated activating the 2nd intake valve turning into a 16 valve engine with a rev limit of 5000 rpms. Basically it is a non vtec engine with vtec hardware controling an intake valve.
so I was basically using a vtec ecu on a non vtec engine like I theorized before (cam doesnt match the ecu)
ok, on to how I made it work:
d16y8 complete rocker arm assembly
d16y8 cam
d16y8 intake manifold gasket (it is different)
valve adjustment
after I changed these car runs drive, idles perfect like a y8
to summerize:
difference between the d16y5 and d16y8 are:
egr intake manifold (the y8 auto and manual are also different)
intake manifold gasket (y8 port flange is bigger than the y5 so it causes an air leak when using the y5 gasket)
rocker arm assembly (y8 has lost motions y5 has roller rockers) ***will post pics when battery is charged***
cam (y8 is vtec 3 lobe and y5 looks like a non-vtec) ***will post pics***
distributer
ecus (ex=p2p hx=p2n)
throttle body (hx smaller and needed with egr manifold)
o2 sensors (d16y5=5 wire wideband o2 sensor)
engine harness (hx=plug for egr and wired for 5 wire o2)
thermostat housing
exhaust manifolds
injectors(ex=larger injectors also look different)
so the car didnt sell so I decided to go through and try and make it work
I have been researching a ton and finally solved the problem. the car runs perfect now.
here is a breakdown of what was going on.
vtec-e: 16 valve engine. operates with 2 exhaust valves and 1 intake valve open operating as a 12 valve engine. At 3000 rpms the vtec solenoid is activated activating the 2nd intake valve turning into a 16 valve engine with a rev limit of 5000 rpms. Basically it is a non vtec engine with vtec hardware controling an intake valve.
so I was basically using a vtec ecu on a non vtec engine like I theorized before (cam doesnt match the ecu)
ok, on to how I made it work:
d16y8 complete rocker arm assembly
d16y8 cam
d16y8 intake manifold gasket (it is different)
valve adjustment
after I changed these car runs drive, idles perfect like a y8
to summerize:
difference between the d16y5 and d16y8 are:
egr intake manifold (the y8 auto and manual are also different)
intake manifold gasket (y8 port flange is bigger than the y5 so it causes an air leak when using the y5 gasket)
rocker arm assembly (y8 has lost motions y5 has roller rockers) ***will post pics when battery is charged***
cam (y8 is vtec 3 lobe and y5 looks like a non-vtec) ***will post pics***
distributer
ecus (ex=p2p hx=p2n)
throttle body (hx smaller and needed with egr manifold)
o2 sensors (d16y5=5 wire wideband o2 sensor)
engine harness (hx=plug for egr and wired for 5 wire o2)
thermostat housing
exhaust manifolds
injectors(ex=larger injectors also look different)
10-31-2010, 03:44 PM
#15
Re: Stock 00 civic ex with blown D16y8 - Will D16y5 run with the EX ECU, harness, and
I never thought about swapping valvetrains but knowing Honda it's no big surprise that they interchange.
Great info and follow-up post. Too many people make a thread an never post how they solved their issue.
.
Great info and follow-up post. Too many people make a thread an never post how they solved their issue.
.
11-02-2010, 09:50 PM
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Re: Stock 00 civic ex with blown D16y8 - Will D16y5 run with the EX ECU, harness, and
There are other threads on here from Bense and Spade who have done a lot of research about the d16y5 and that the head castings are the same as the op found out they had to swap the internals that you can change it from a y5 to y8 and vice versa.
11-03-2010, 12:41 AM
#18
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Re: Stock 00 civic ex with blown D16y8 - Will D16y5 run with the EX ECU, harness, and
You can't just swap the top half of the cam caps without having the caps align honed to the head... well, I guess you CAN do whatever you want.. but they won't be true and round as intended since the caps are matched to the head.
11-03-2010, 10:26 AM
#19
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Re: Stock 00 civic ex with blown D16y8 - Will D16y5 run with the EX ECU, harness, and
Props on the follow up...I always get curious and once people figure it out they don't usually share the knowledge.
11-06-2010, 10:26 PM
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Re: Stock 00 civic ex with blown D16y8 - Will D16y5 run with the EX ECU, harness, and
i am trying to do the exact oposite. what do i need to do to swap and put a y8 head on a y5 bottom end? how will v-tec hit? and will it run right?
11-07-2010, 06:42 AM
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Re: Stock 00 civic ex with blown D16y8 - Will D16y5 run with the EX ECU, harness, and
Don't mean to thread jack, but I have a Y5 block with a y8 head, that I recently had converted auto to manual, and ws wonderi.ng since I did a y7 to Y8 mani swap prior to the tranny swap would I now have to to it again to accomadate the manual??? I have an ecu out of a 98 ex, my car is a 96 hatch, and when I plugged it in after the tranny swap, 1. Idled nasty jumping between 1000 to 2500, 2. Wouldn't rev past 5200, 3. Does not having vtec wired have something to do with this???
11-07-2010, 01:37 PM
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Re: Stock 00 civic ex with blown D16y8 - Will D16y5 run with the EX ECU, harness, and
Don't mean to thread jack, but I have a Y5 block with a y8 head, that I recently had converted auto to manual, and ws wonderi.ng since I did a y7 to Y8 mani swap prior to the tranny swap would I now have to to it again to accomadate the manual??? I have an ecu out of a 98 ex, my car is a 96 hatch, and when I plugged it in after the tranny swap, 1. Idled nasty jumping between 1000 to 2500, 2. Wouldn't rev past 5200, 3. Does not having vtec wired have something to do with this???
what engine harness are you using?
is the ecu a manual?
is the y8 intake manifold auto or manual?
what intake manifold gasket are you using?
is it for sure a y8 head have you looked at the valvetrain to confirm?
11-08-2010, 04:37 AM
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Re: Stock 00 civic ex with blown D16y8 - Will D16y5 run with the EX ECU, harness, and
Harness= obd2a auto stock harness I believe, I have the stock auto ecu that I'm running right now, I believe p2j?? Its an auto IM since I did that before the tranny, which was also strange that I had a y7 IM on a clearfly vtec head. I'm using the y8 gasket, and lastly I'm not sure which vtecd he'd it is, how do I check this, quite honestly I'm sorta new to the whole thing.
11-08-2010, 09:05 PM
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Re: Stock 00 civic ex with blown D16y8 - Will D16y5 run with the EX ECU, harness, and
Harness= obd2a auto stock harness I believe, I have the stock auto ecu that I'm running right now, I believe p2j?? Its an auto IM since I did that before the tranny, which was also strange that I had a y7 IM on a clearfly vtec head. I'm using the y8 gasket, and lastly I'm not sure which vtecd he'd it is, how do I check this, quite honestly I'm sorta new to the whole thing.
http://www.clubcivic.com/board/showthread.php?t=157624
my guess it is your IACV wiring and your ecu
11-09-2010, 05:35 AM
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Re: Stock 00 civic ex with blown D16y8 - Will D16y5 run with the EX ECU, harness, and
Thanks cheese wedge, I have the ecu from a 96 ex, the p2e or something, but if I do the pin moving for the iacv will that fix the retarded idle I've got right now?? I should be able to drive with the new ecu after this? Would it help if I moved the iacv pins, and wired vtec at the same time?