420eg95

I have a 99 civic (ej8) with b18c1 block, b16 head. I've recently started upgrading the suspension, I got the car with no name ebay coilovers on stock struts, bad upper control arms, bad inner and outer tie rods, bad wheels and tires.

So far I have replaced the upper ball joints with the blox competition front camber kit, moog inner & outer tie rods and the boot kit (both sides), new wheels and new tires. I also raised the suspension to about .5-1in from stock to help with ride quality on the crappy coilovers/struts. I had my friend zero everything out using a alignment kit that he used when he use to race/instruct.

After all that the car rides very smooth and straight, however the steering still feels loose. I have not gotten a professional alignment but plan on it when I get the new coilovers. The steering also is very slow and does not return to completely straight after turning, as well as when you are driving it feels like there is some slack (about .5in) that you can move the steering wheel without feeling any change in the steering/direction of the car.

I plan on getting the progress cs2, or GC/Tokico in the next month or so along with professional 4 wheel alignment when its all done.

I think its going to be the steering rack, but I can't find anything from searching that confirms my guesses. Any ideas other than alignment, or could a professional alignment make that much of a difference?

94CivicSi

iTrader: (1)

Check the universal joint that connects the steering column to the the pinion. It's under a plastic tube under the dash. The tube is held in place with (2) c-clips and (1) plastic fastener up behind the brake pedal. Bolts are 10mm. A little 1/4" drive is helpful in the tight space.

If that's not it, you can also make a rack adjustment from under the car. I've got the OEM rack adjusting tool, but it's really just a very large, very thin box wrench. It loosens the lock bolt and then allows you to use a 12mm wrench to tighten or loosen the rack guide.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Bad toe out or not enough caster causes what you're describing. Since caster is not adjustable, I'm guessing toe is going to be the issue.

Camber could also be a contributing factor.

Did you change the tires after this was done? Any damage to the old tires?

A non-returning steering rack would cause more effort to the steering wheel...not looseness.

Lots of toe will cause looseness in steering and non-centering since the tires are always pulling away from center.

Civics have like...2 degrees of caster or something. So that small amount of non adjustable caster coupled with toe out (which, IIRC, depletes caster even further on these cars) means that excess toe really affects response and centering.

Or you could have a lot of rear toe in also. But...that may not affect steering centering unless it was effing badly out of spec.

Have you checked tire pressures?

420eg95

Thanks for the tips to check out.

tire pressure is good (i'll double check it anyway things always happen), This weekend when I have time I'm going to check the "universal joint that connects the steering column" and go ahead a get professional alignment done, even though it will need another one in a month of so after suspension is finished. Luckily I have another car to drive to work until this is resolved.

The wheels and tires were purchased brand new from discount tire, with warranty (kumo Escta AST 205/50R15 on a set of Drag dr-9) mount & balanced, new wheel locks. Also just put on new aftermarket OEM rotors (centric rotors) and EBC ultimax brake pads last night.

So just about everything has been replace in the front end of the car, only thing left is steering rack/alignment, that's the main reason for my assumptions.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Often, you'll notice a little less steering response from brand new treaded tires due to tread squirm.

You can opt to get a lifetime alignment or an alignment with a 6 month warranty from about any major chain. A lifetime alignment usually costs about the same as 2 alignments. So...something to consider.

If the car is not really going to be all that low, I would swap to stock upper control arms instead of camber arms...atleast up front. This is for the sake of simplicity, longevity, and suspension travel. You're not going to see an appreciable amount of uneven or rapid tire wear from like 1.5 to 2 degrees of camber unless you are the burnout king. If you are the burnout king...there's no reasonable expectation that you should have from tires anyway.

My examples of experience are listed thusly:
-almost all of my DD's have been lowered. Currently, a TSX, FWIW. -2 deg of camber and about 14k street miles (a lot of highway/straight driving) have shown no uneven wear.

-my S2000 has -3 degrees all around. I don't see any uneven wear. I did once do a 45 second long burnout on brand new tires. Camber had no role to play in their premature wear.

420eg95

The tires do only have about 300 miles or less on them but the steering wheel will not returning to center position (at least its very slow to return) after a turn is made, so even with that as a possible issue I think there is something more to it.

The car hopefully will see some track time

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Track...drag strip? Or track road course?

420eg95

once or twice on the drag just to see what it runs, more road track.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

Steering not returning to center is a symptom of a bad alignment.

420eg95

I've lurked on HT for long enough to know if "NotARacist" says something I should listen. I'll get it done this weekend, and follow up. As well as the other ideas if alignment doesn't work out.

Thanks

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Ok....I guess in that case, a camber kit coupled with a lifetime alignment would benefit you for adjustability.

Be interested to see your before/after alignment sheet on your current setup

420eg95

I set an appointment for tomorrow at Firestone and if I have time this weekend I'll post the results for the before/after. latest will be Monday of next week.

420eg95

I have the images but couldn't figure out how to post them, I don't have any accounts that allow me add the URL but these are the before and after #s, and it was the alignment that gave the original feeling of unresponsiveness, and now its great... other than me wanting some 450/450 GC coilovers and koni/tokicos. The read outs were also in color (green/Red) which I assumed was for bad(red)/good(green).. easy enough to understand, however the numbers in the middle grey area I was not sure about, I listed them but I don't think they are of that much importance. If I'm wrong please explain. I know it was mainly the toe that was the issue

Settings before
Front Left right
Camber -0.4 0.1 -0.5
Caster 2.5 1.2 1.3
Toe -1.15 -1.16

Rear left right
Camber -2.6 -0.8 -1.9
Toe 0.8 -0.27 1.08
Total toe 1.91 Thrust angle -0.14

After Alignment
Front
Camber -0.4 0.1 -0.5
Caster 2.5 1.2 1.3
Toe 0.07 0.07

Rear
Camber -1.2 .05 -1.6
Toe 0.08 0.02 0.06
total toe 0.14
Thrust angle 0.01

tire size 205/50/R15 (speed rating H) Tread depth was 7 on all 4
Left front PSI in30 PSI out 30
Right Front PSi in 32 PSI out 30
Right rear PSI in 31 PSI out 29
Left rear PSI in 30 PSi out 29

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Yeah. You had enough toe out to sink the titanic (if toe could sink ships....bad analogy). Glad you got it sorted out.


FWIW...don't use 450lb springs on Tokico shocks.

Buy Koni Yellows and Koni specific GC's if you want 450lbs. That's like....ths realistic limit for Konis too.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

That list is...kind of hard to read.

Upload the image to http://www.imgur.com. You don't need an account. Use the fourth option on the right, "BBCode (message boards & forums)". Copy that, and paste it here.

420eg95

got it, and here the pics.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

Holy **** your toe was FUCKED up. There's your "not centering" issue right there. From the looks of the last page, though, you had it fixed before it destroyed your tires, which is good. What kind of warranty does your alignment come with? Do yourself a favor, and take it back before the warranty expires for a re-check. Everyone should have their car aligned at least once every 6 months.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is a prime example of why you fix problems immediately, rather than putting it off. OP fixed the problem immediately, and because of that, he doesn't have to spend $500+ on tires.

420eg95

I've had the car for less than a year and mainly been focusing on the motor. I had just put on new inner & outer tie rods(boots included), front rotors, front camber kit, rear LCA. The car already had rear toe and camber kit. As well as the tires and rims have maybe 300 miles on them. All that I need now is shock/struts, coilovers and maybe a ASR/sway bar setup for looks. I only drove the car for about 20-40 miles from the time these parts were put on and the alignment was done... my friend that did the install did his best to zero out the front, but he also told me to get it aligned. I've had him do the same work previously and when I took it to get aligned they said everything was in alignment. So I figured that there might be something else, but fortunately there was not.

forgot to answer the question, I have lifetime alignments at firestone now.. little less than $200, I have no idea what it warranties or covers if anything???.. Ill ask the next time when the rest of the suspension is bought and installed.