Ecky

I have a '94 Del Sol, originally a B16, now running a B18B with the stock B16 tranny. Recently I've started having intermittent starting problems.

The details:

In the morning when I walk out to my car and start it to go to work, it always starts right up. I have made some correlations though. After driving it a while, I can (for instance) park it and go into a store, come back out, and it won't start. It also seems like it doesn't start more often on hot days, which is much more often with summer coming on.

When it doesn't start, what happens is the following: I turn the key to the "on" position and hear the fuel pump prime, and then I turn it to "start" and hear a "click" of the relay, and I can tell there's an electrical load - the dash lights will get dim and the tone of the fuel pump drops, but it doesn't start. Sometimes I turn it 2 or 3 times and then it starts right up without any signs of effort. Sometimes, I can pull the negative terminal off of the battery for 5 seconds and then tighten it back down, and it will start right up without any hesitation. If I jump the car or attach a battery charger, it tends to turn right over despite the battery testing "fine", having the proper voltage, and having a brand new starter. I believe it's a 500 cranking amp battery.

I had an Autozone and an Advance Auto both do tests on the system. One reported no problems, the other said I might have a bad starter because of "slightly low cranking amps" I believe. The battery is about a year old (from Walmart) and passed a load and voltage test, and alternator tested fine. I replaced the starter, which didn't help. I then went around the hood and cleaned up every ground I could find (sanded) and replaced the negative terminal clamp and ground line going from the battery to the chassis. The positive terminal clamp still looks good but I may replace it anyway just to rule it out.

I considered that it might be an accessory going bad such as the power steering pump, but I have a computer that measures gas mileage and my instant mileage is just as great as ever - I can hit as much as 56mpg doing 25-45mph and sometimes average in the low 40's driving around town, so I don't think there's a problem with my engine or with any of the accessories.


What do you guys think? Where should I start? Why would it not even start to turn the motor, dimming the lights, and a minute later start just fine?

tlarimer

iTrader: (3)

Check and test the main relay, there is a write up in the FAQ section

B_Swapped93

does it drain your batt ? as you say that you are jumping it to get it to start

Ecky

Yes I can run the battery dead turning the key without hearing the engine turn over once.

I'll do that soon but I'm waiting on a new multimeter to arrive, I fried mine yesterday looking for possible power drains.

B_Swapped93

You're an idiot the main relay is an electrical....relay hit it and you'll break it. you're thinking of the starter. or you're just trolling as usal

andyz

What is trolling?

B_Swapped93

giving incorrect advice such as what you did above/have done before....not the first time I've seen you do it

andyz

ANyway, I reread the post, it's not even cranking so....

But I did go for quite some time on a dime, whacking the relay with 16 oz hammer. It solved my hot start problem for a long time.

tlarimer

iTrader: (3)

Typically the solder on the main relay cracks breaking the connection when it gets hot. I've fixed close to a dozen by just reflowing the solder with a soldering iron. It's free, if you already have a soldering iron, can't hurt anything.

Have you checked the positive battery cable on both the battery and starter ends for corrosion? Also check the ground on the T stat housing?

andyz

Ah, whatever, I think most of you guys need a bx2 y with 8x cams and d5 t7 super cooper whatsit.

Youll never appreciate my subtle ghetto ways.

Ecky

I'll try, but from what I can gather from the FAQ, the main relay will not stop it from cranking. The fuel pump engages, I hear 3 clicks, but it does not crank. The lights dim and the hum of the fuel pump gets lower in pitch as though the voltage is dropping from load.

tlarimer

iTrader: (3)

I skimmed through your original post and missed that. Check battery cables on both ends for corrosion, sometimes it creeps up under the plastic shielding.

Ecky

I just went out and tested to hear for the relay clicking, just to be sure. I started the car 5 times rapidly - it turned over immediately and started without hestitation 4 times, and the 5th time the lights just dimmed and it wouldn't start. It wasn't that the starter got slugish, it just didn't crank at all the 5th time. No matter how many times I turned it after that the lights just dimmed, the engine didn't crank. It still clicked all 3 times properly.

tlarimer

iTrader: (3)

But you said if you hook up a battery charger to it, it starts fine?

B_Swapped93

how many "cranks" can you get out of it before it dies ? since you say it starts when you jump it i'd almost think batt or batt terminals as you're touching them when you jump it

tlarimer

iTrader: (3)

Try using another, known good battery. I have had batteries from wal mart test fine, but turn out to have dead cells.

Ecky

I hadn't considered that, but I have another Civic parked in the yard that I can swap batteries with. I'll do that!

Sometimes I can drive the car for an hour, turn it off, and it won't start back up 3 seconds later. Sometimes I can sit in the driveway and crank it 10 times and it'll start up every time. It's very intermittent, but seems to happen more when it's hot outside or the car has been driven.

I'll also try swapping the positive terminal clamp and inspect the starter power cable for corrosion under the plastic sleeve, but I've sanded all of the connections and they shine.

EDIT: I'll go snap some pictures of everything.

Ecky

After being inside for about 30 minutes after my car wouldn't start anymore (from post #13), I went out front and put the key in and it started right up. I found an old multimeter in my closet and compared the voltage of my battery with the Civic's and mine actually had slightly higher resting voltage.

Anywho, I jacked the battery out of the Civic and put it in my Del Sol, and it started up 10 times in a row without hesitation. Since my problem is intermittent I have no idea yet if it's the battery, but I guess I'll find out over the next few days. I appreciate the help guys.


Here are some pics:

My current battery


Starter


Civic's battery I jacked for my testing



How do my terminals look?

tlarimer

iTrader: (3)

If it was my car, I would get some battery cables from Honda, I've always had trouble with those replacement clamp style terminals.

I also just replaced both my 07 Civic Si and 99 Civic Lx batteries with Honda units same exact P/N, they were the same price as die hard and had a better warranty.

Siders

Crazy, I've been having the same exact problem with my del sol si 93.

It will crank randomly on some days, and some days not at all. It's the most annoying thing. I have had my starter checked and it was fine. Thought it might be the battery, but I just threw on a new one with no luck.

I plugged in a voltmeter into the cigarette lighter and it reads 11.59V. Very little. When I throw the same battery into another car it will read 12.6+V. Hope you figure it out, because I probably have the same issue.

Ecky

I swapped my battery out with a known working one and thought until about an hour ago that all was well. I started it 20+ times without issue. Earlier I went to get in my car to see a movie, after a hard rain, and it just clicked.

I connected a charger and then was immediately able to turn it over without hesitation. My current bet is on the positive cable OR just the clamp on the positive cable. It looks fine, but I'm going to get some clamps from the Honda dealership and see if they improve things.

wonder squirrel

Read this thread:

https://honda-tech.com/forums/tech-misc-15/simple-diy-start-circuit-test-%5Bbypass-jump%5D-2961164/

Ecky

Main relay.

tlarimer

iTrader: (3)

That was my first thought, glad you figured it out

Ecky

Thanks for the help all!