Razr2

I am thinking about spraying my 2000 Civic Si. It it basically stock with just I/H/E and a CTR intake cam.

Is it safe to run a small shot (maybe ~30?) on a stock B16a2? Will doing it lower the reliability at all? Is it possible to blow the motor? Has anyone done it on a DD?

I just want to get some more power, but don't want to spend alot of money doing it. I know nitrous is a pretty cheap way to get power.

Also when a car is set up for nitrous, do people usually have a button, or is it setup somehow so it sprays with a certain throttle position/RPMS/etc.

All info on this subject would be greatly appreciated!

1jdmek

i doubt its safe to spray any stock motor... eventually the motor will blow..but it might last you a while before it blows...what kind kit you trying to go with?

fatpride111

im spraying my gsr with a 25-ish shot (slightly drilled out the pill so its probably a 35-ish shot)

my car is a dd, with just i/h/e, and i just plugged it in and ran it like that. didnt mess with timing, didnt instal colder plugs, or anything and i havent had any problems with it. i rarely ever spray it though, but i doubt you'd have any problems unless you go crazy and spray at every red light you get.

i used a microswitch (i think its called) instead of a button. i have the typical on/ off switch but the microswitch is this little switch with a lever that you attach near your T.B. and you put it right where your T.B. would be completly open, so it only activates at open throttle.

got my microswitch at the local speed shop for like 10 bucks i think.

Razr2

Anyone else?

Also if someone can explain to me the methods of using the nitrous.. I don't want to use it while I'm DD and if I occasionally redline it during driving when passing and what not.. Only when I'm racing.

So what methods are there?

93egSLEEPER

NOS is scary on a high compression honda. if i were ever to try this i wouldnt go past a 25 shot... MAAAAAYBE a 50 on the track... but NOS is not my gig.

leoaa777

Jesus....why is everyone such a ***** around here.

Yes, you can spray that car. Yes, you can spray 100-125 shot as long as you have enough fuel and correct timing setting. Oh yeah, do it dry...wet shots are only for pussies.

93egSLEEPER

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by leoaa777 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Jesus....why is everyone such a ***** around here.

Yes, you can spray that car. Yes, you can spray 100-125 shot as long as you have enough fuel and correct timing setting. Oh yeah, do it dry...wet shots are only for pussies. </TD></TR></TABLE>
cause the first time he over revs on NOS and blows his motor hes gunna be like... ****.

leoaa777

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93egSLEEPER &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
cause the first time he over revs on NOS and blows his motor hes gunna be like... ****. </TD></TR></TABLE>

NOS is a brand. Nitrous Oxide on the other hand is (also called dinitrogen oxide or dinitrogen monoxide, or sometimes laughing gas) a chemical compound with the chemical formula N2O. At room temperature, it is a colorless non-flammable gas, with a pleasant, slightly sweet odor and taste. It is an oxidizer.

2 atoms of N, 1 atom of O.

Looks to me he nor most of you should not be using nitrous anyways. Best mod for YOUR cars...Driver.

93egSLEEPER

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by leoaa777 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

NOS is a brand. Nitrous Oxide on the other hand is (also called dinitrogen oxide or dinitrogen monoxide, or sometimes laughing gas) a chemical compound with the chemical formula N2O. At room temperature, it is a colorless non-flammable gas, with a pleasant, slightly sweet odor and taste. It is an oxidizer.

2 atoms of N, 1 atom of O.

Looks to me he nor most of you should not be using nitrous anyways. Best mod for YOUR cars...Driver.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

all im sayin is if you put 125 shot of N2o through that motor its not gunna last very long. high compression and nitrous arent meant to go together.

and yes learning how to drive your car well will make you faster for free. lol

meyerman_b16a2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93egSLEEPER &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
cause the first time he over revs on NOS and blows his motor hes gunna be like... ****. </TD></TR></TABLE>

minus the fact that its Nitrous, not NOS...... x2

93egSLEEPER

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by meyerman_b16a2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

minus the fact that its Nitrous, not NOS...... x2 </TD></TR></TABLE>

LOL all the same ****.

schardbody

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93egSLEEPER &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

all im sayin is if you put 125 shot of N2o through that motor its not gunna last very long. high compression and nitrous arent meant to go together.

and yes learning how to drive your car well will make you faster for free. lol</TD></TR></TABLE>

first of all, hitting the rev limiter on a DRY nitrous setup WILL NOT hurt anything. with a wet setup its gonna pop. with a wet setup fuel is being delivered with the nitrous but not enough to keep the a/f from leaning out when fuel cut (rev limiter) is met. with a dry shot there is no fuel in the cylinders to fire when fuel is cut, no fuel equals NO LEAN condition and no detonation. its a HUGE misconseption that hitting the rev limiter with a dry shot will pop your motor.

secondly, compression has NOTHING TO DO with a motors ability to handle nitrous. you do realize nitrous actually LOWERS intake charge temps, which is part of the reason for the power boost (PART). this in turn makes it more resistant to detonation. other than that its just like any other power adder, you have to tune it, and if done correctly a b16 will handle 300+whp on spray.

the biggest no no with nitrous is spraying too early. spraying at a low rpm puts ALOT of force on the bottom end, this causes bearing failure as the force shocks the piston downward and into the bearing. the bigger the shot the higher the RPM before you should spray.

i ran an LS on spray, colder plugs, tuned timing and learned to read plugs, and it was fine. was my daily driver, never seen a track or dyno, and went through a 10lb bottle a week for almost a year before i pulled the kit off and sold the car with perfect compression still.

sorry, but the info provided by most in this thread are INCORRECT.

skUnK2jdm

It is VERY UNSAFE to hit rev limiter while spraying any type of Nitrous! dry or wet. rev limiter is fuel cutoff if you have no fuel and just Nitrous you will blow your motor!
just because its dry dosent mean that it will stop sprayin Nitrous when it hits rev limiter.

and to the OP yes it is safe i ran a 75 dry shot on my b16a for a year with no problems! just make sure you get the right spark plugs tho!

schardbody

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by skUnK2jdm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It is VERY UNSAFE to hit rev limiter while spraying any type of Nitrous! dry or wet. rev limiter is fuel cutoff if you have no fuel and just Nitrous you will blow your motor!
just because its dry dosent mean that it will stop sprayin Nitrous when it hits rev limiter.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

and why is nitrous alone bad?????? tell me this, if nitrous is NON flammable, and theres NO fuel (fuel cut) then what is going to cause damage??? NOTHING, the nitrous will still spray, off coarse, but it will be cycled out the exhaust as if nothing happened.

im not trying to sound like a dick, but theres no way nitrous alone will hurt a motor. lack of fuel, or too much timing (heat) will.

Razr2

Excellent info guys, keep it coming.

Can someone please explain the application of nitrous to me. How/When does it know to spray? At a certain RPM or under certain throttle position?

schardbody

depends on the setup man. if you use a microswitch it activates when you hit WOT. if you use a button (momentary switch) it activates when you hit the button. most kits comes with a microswitch.

i prefer zex kits because the NMU (nitrous management unit) houses all the solenoids and the switch for activation, 3 wire hookup and run nitrous lines, and install jets. (tap for fuel on wet kit) and you are done.

Scotty Dosent Know

What a bunch of ******, B series motors love a 65-75 shot. Ran tons of bottles of nitrous through a 91 prelude (65 shot) and never a problem

dayne808

i used to run a 75 shot weekly on my b16 EF. just make sure you run a wet shot. it's much safer. run some ngk BKR7E plugs, run some 92 octane gas, back off your timing a little and don't get too happy with the button. also an upgraded clutch would be a good idea. i made a little bracket for the microswitch to mount it on my throttle body. i adjusted it to activate at absolute FULL throttle, so if i missed a shift on the spray, i could let off the gas quickly. also it's good for launch techniques as long as you don't mash the pedal off the line. you can kind of feather 1st gear until you get traction then BANG! stomp that bitch to the floor. nitrous is fun but it is addicting. also filling the bottle gets expensive....

v8destroyer

you gays that think nitrous is bad watch to much fast and furious.. i have a 95 ex w/ a d16z6 and have had a 75 shot of nitrous on my car for over 2 years with no problem. my car has 206k miles on it... nitrous doesnt blow motors. STUPID PEOPLE BLOW MOTORS!!

dayne808

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by v8destroyer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you gays that think nitrous is bad watch to much fast and furious.. i have a 95 ex w/ a d16z6 and have had a 75 shot of nitrous on my car for over 2 years with no problem. my car has 206k miles on it... nitrous doesnt blow motors. STUPID PEOPLE BLOW MOTORS!!</TD></TR></TABLE>
no **** man... "lucky you didn't blow the welds on the intake" hahaha

bmoua

i was never a spray kinda of guy so IMO, stay away and boost.

dayne808

best bang for the buck? nitrous hands down... boost is just more fun i think

Frickr

N2O has been around since the 70's you would think that if all it did was blow your motor, noone would use it right? all nitrous does is allow more air into your motor, more air = more fuel = more power. on a dry kit, no extra fuel is injected into your motor, it just uses your stock injectors that spray more fuel due to compinsate for the more air present, so if you bounce off the rev limiter, your just wasting your nitrous. nitrigen and oxegen are both in the air around you, if they were dangerous, then whenever you lit a match or a lighter you would blowup the world. so not going to do to much.

if your worried about that, then why not get a control box where your system will only turn on at WOT and only engage after that after a preset RPM set by you. and will shut off when your motor hits a little before redline, that why there is no way you can F*ck that one up.

Syndacate

I ran a 200 on my 509 BBC.

Oh wait, B16's

Schardbody's pretty much 100% right about everything. Dry it won't do **** - it'll cut - that'll be that, wet uses a fuel/nitorus mix instead of just nitrous injection so if you hit the rev governor with a wet shot it'll be like you keep on revving...and up, up, up, and away goes the engine.

To all these homos saying "nitrous oxide is not NOS" &gt;&gt;

First of all, if it's for NOS, it's for ZEX, and Venom, so on and so forth - grammatically saying what that guy said (where you all jumped on him "IT'S NOT NOS U ***") it's not incorrect at all, so just shut up about it, it's not that important, it didn't need 15 people to tell him differently, but most importantly, the way he said it technically is correct as he didn't match them as equivalents at you guys.

Nitrous isn't bad, especially if it's tuned the right way (opposed to some hack job **** in a driveway), it's like anything else, use common sense - it's like boost.

As many people know (from wiki and fast and the furious) N2O is an oxidizer - what is an oxidizer? A gas compound that transfers oxygen. The Nitrous is the carrier, the Oxygen is well....oxygen... So it's basically "Oxygen injection" - which isn't too far off from a turbo which is just "oxygen injection" through the throttle body.

It's practically the same thing - they both increase the vacuum and raise the compression ratio/temperature which can cause misfires if you're using cheap gas, etc. etc. with that said, you can see why it needs a tune.

So now that we've established that for all intents and purposes nitrous oxide and turbochargers are the same exact thing, we can render in the fact that they both need A) To be tuned in terms of air/fuel ratios, AND ignition, B) Don't cause damage if tuned right unless abused, (in turbos it's turning up the pressure past what it's tuned for, in nitrous it's putting a larger jet in there), and C) An engine has a horsepower maximum, the horsepower maximum is what the engine can safely handle at the redline before it spins a bearing or cracks a con. rod. WITH THAT SAID: If you go past the redline for ANY reason the integrity goes down drastically due to the engine not being made to hold that much in the first place (much like a negative exponential graph).

What does that mean?

It means if your B16 has a 125 shot on it, dyno tuned correctly you can bring it up to the redline without endangering the motor, BUT, if you bring it past the redline you endanger the block even more than if the nitrous wasn't there due to the increased compression ratio causing more pressure on the connecting rods / stroke, and if you slap on a 170 jet you'll be capped at say 6000 RPM instead of the OEM redline at 8300 or whatever it is (6000 is a general base number) because you'll reach the engine's maximum power capacity faster - higher RPM would increase the power more, so you wouldn't be able to give it much more gas - bring it to the redline, and you're extremely in danger of catastrophic failure (blown engine).

So Syndacate, this is like a mile long, what the **** does it all mean??

Well it's quite simple:

A) You keep the shot under what the block can handle (for B16's it's around 300, though I wouldn't push it above 280 due to the high redline, a 125 shot should be fine.
B) Like any other method of forced induction (and oh yes, nitrous is forced induction), if it's tuned correctly, it will be fine.
C) If it's not abused (ie. held to the redline or brought past the redline) it will be fine, this ESPECIALLY matters in terms of wet shots where it'll keep pumping fuel after the fuel cut due to the jets on wet systems being fuel/nitrous mixer jets opposed to dry where it's simply nitrous injection.

So if you combine A, B, and C, you get a basic set of premises on how to NOT blow your engine with nitrous, which you can reduce down to one sentence.

The sentence:
"If the shot isn't above what the maximum horsepower the block can handle, and if it's dyno tuned, and if it's not abused, then the engine will be fine under that nitrous."

For those of you that will ask "Yes, but isn't it more stress on the motor??" - more stress indeed, but it shouldn't fail prematurely, I wouldn't do this on a 200k mile engine though.

NOTE: If you start dicking around with the redline (increasing it), then, YES, you WILL endanger the block prematurely due to the maximum horsepower being shot well out of boundary and should cut down on the spray at that point.

@ OP:
You can spray 125 shot through A B16 and as long as you're not stupid about it and get it dyno tuned, it will be 100% A-OK. BUT, you don't have a stock B16, you have a B16 with a CTR cam (probably untuned), so your power output is probably more or less, with the intake, header, and exhaust, around 160-170 at the wheels, this shouldn't change the fact that a 125 should be fine on your motor, but if you want to heir on the side of caution and stick to a 100 shot, that would be smart and stress the internals to a lesser degree even if it's staying within the maximum horsepower capacity of the motor.

Anything less than a ~50/60 shot is a waste, IMO.

Has anybody ever done it to a daily driver? Plenty of people, the 509 I did it to was my daily driver, it had twin hooker headers, no exhaust, a ram air intake system, a shallower intake manifold (more higher RPM power), and a more aggressive cam, and a studded head. It made **** torque though due to a bad setup combination on my part (combining higher RPM power parts with lower RPM power parts) - Though that's a Chevy, and is pretty irrelevant to your B16A2, although the point was simply that it was my daily and I had a 200 shot in it. I went half-*** tuned (not dyno) with a (275?) and the nitrous backfired and set my intake filter on fire - so just don't do any stupid **** - an engine is an engine, get it tuned, don't go over the power max, and you should be sittin pretty.

Also, I read what schardbody said and agree 100% with all of it - so I recommend that you read what he has to say as well, if you haven't already.


Modified by Syndacate at 3:13 AM 1/8/2008

dayne808

nitrous is like tanqueray......only in moderation hahaha i think i spelled that wrong