IVAN93EG

when i got my may edition of honda tuning i was thrilled to see on the top of the cover "dyno shootout"b16 performence for single cam. inside the mag it did a dyno on a 99 si with aem cold air intake. the si made 140.2 to the wheels and 101.4 lbs of torque.for the d motor it gave no dyno of what the car was making before the mods ,nor did it say if any characteristics of the motor were altered already.jdm piston (pm7 jdm zc) , a used skunk2 manny, 68mm throttle body and cam gear from bdl industries and a tubular exhaust manny from a 99-2000 ex. also a bdl fuel rail, filter and regulater were added. d series put down 146.3 whp and 111.1 of torqe. i nearly took a crap in my pants this was good news for all who felt like we needed to buy a b16 just to open our hood at a meet. then i started thinking about the setup and im pretty sure most stock ex civics put just at or maybe not even 100 hp to the wheels. sounds like almost a 50 hp gain on just these mods alone. almost sound like a bunch of bull. then again i know nothing about the tuning aspect of this build. does anyone have a setup like this or at least somewhat close to it to validate this. i almost feel like an *** for even douting honda tuning. sorry if this long post pissed any one off. im a noobie to ht not hondas.

sicones

what exactly are you asking, yes it is very possible with the right parts and a good tune

btw a y8 with minor bolt-ons puts down about 109 to the wheels

philosofy1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IVAN93EG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">when i got my may edition of honda tuning i was thrilled to see on the top of the cover "dyno shootout"b16 performence for single cam. inside the mag it did a dyno on a 99 si with aem cold air intake. the si made 140.2 to the wheels and 101.4 lbs of torque.for the d motor it gave no dyno of what the car was making before the mods ,nor did it say if any characteristics of the motor were altered already.jdm piston (pm7 jdm zc) , a used skunk2 manny, 68mm throttle body and cam gear from bdl industries and a tubular exhaust manny from a 99-2000 ex. also a bdl fuel rail, filter and regulater were added. d series put down 146.3 whp and 111.1 of torqe. i nearly took a crap in my pants this was good news for all who felt like we needed to buy a b16 just to open our hood at a meet. then i started thinking about the setup and im pretty sure most stock ex civics put just at or maybe not even 100 hp to the wheels. sounds like almost a 50 hp gain on just these mods alone. almost sound like a bunch of bull. then again i know nothing about the tuning aspect of this build. does anyone have a setup like this or at least somewhat close to it to validate this. i almost feel like an *** for even douting honda tuning. sorry if this long post pissed any one off. im a noobie to ht not hondas. </TD></TR></TABLE>

ahh yes, i have that issue, good stuff.
yes, anything is possible with the right parts and proper amount of time to tune.
not degrating sohc fans, but if you apply the same amount of parts and tuning to a b16a it will put down more that 140whp. overal it is a stronger motor.
as far as feeling ashamed to open your hood at a meet, don't! there is nothing wrong with having a sohc. i've seen some sohc(turbo) setups that are fast as hell, take out cars you would never imagine!

joker4096

got the issue also (subscription ) i've seen sohcs turbo that beat almost any kind of car brought to it. no, they will not make as much power as a turbod b, but for the budget guy, build your d and boost the hell out of it.

Jorsher

Well, you can't say "this with this puts down this much power" because it varies between engines. b16 is great and all but I really didn't see the point in spending the money for one.

I planned on doing a K swap, which would take me about 2-3 months of saving if I worked hard. But hell, why spend all that money when I could spend 500-700 on a turbo setup and get 180-220whp? It'll keep me entertained until I feel like the K series is worth the price.

IVAN93EG

in san antonio tx, a b16 goes for no less than 3,200 if you want a good swap. i think puting 3,200 in my z6 would get me more hp plus engine strength than a stock b16. the work done on the d series only cost 1,200 and it toped the hp and torqe numbers than a b16 with aem cold air . the price of parts fom the artical are a bit misleading. here they are. /used zc pistons 40$/ used skunk2 manifold $100/used 99 ex header 20$ /bdl tb 380$/ bdl cam gear 100$ /bearins,belts,gaskets,ect. 380$. this total comes to 1,020$. didnt check math .just coping from mag. in real life it might be hard to get a used shunk2 im without a hookup so lets add 200$ more and put it at 300$ .1,220 total. bdl threw in the rail,regulator and filter free for advertising purposes. if i could duplicate this setup it would leave a ton of possibilities. ditch the 40$ zc pistons and get forged ones. screww the header and boost it . engine management and dyno time and now im turbo for about the same price as a swap plus my piston and rods can handle more boost . not much of couse with out upgraded fuel delivery but more than stock for sure and more than a b16.over 250 hp isnt out of the question. i guess this is kind of turning into my way of saying that visions of jdm and duel cams dancing in my head have shaped my way of thinking only way to get power is with a swap.i am new in here so forgive me if i talk too much but i only get 5 posts per 24 hours . please give me feed back on your opinion even if its not what i agree with . i am not set on ways and am always ready to hear pros and cons of "the swap".im not talking about future upgrades and how you con do more with dohc in the long run because trust me ,i know. i am talking about the first big investment you make if you want power and lots of it. thank you

Jorsher

The more expensive engine you have, the more potential you'll have. The cheaper engine you have, the more bang for buck

You can get a stock d16 for ~300, turbo that stock d16 for about ~300-600 depending on what deals you get, and have ~200whp.

So, less than 1000 you can have 200whp. Not bad imo.

Junkies_Theary

good info guyz

plz turn off trial user

ok kinda unfair if u look at it, i am a d-sereis guy tho


ok if u put 12:1 comp to a b16 i bet itll make more power too it only has an intake, doesnt do much


ok on the other hand the d16y8 gets pm7 pistons dohc zc pistons(in america p29 pistons from an old integra)

a high comp y8 head gasket

new throttle body, and intake mani even tho the y8 is the best intake mani for a d-sereis stock

new fuel rail, and fuel pressure regulator, and by the sounds of it prolly tuned with sumething

put that many parts in a b it will smoke the d

Jorsher

That's true, but again, the B series costs more.

Like I said, the B series has more potential, but it's cheaper to upgrade your D series than to swap in a B.

I'm just aiming for 200whp, there's no point in paying all that money for a B series, when I can spend 500 on what I have and handle the job.

IVAN93EG

i totaly agree. remember were talking about first big investment. dont you think these import mags full of swaps and all the jdm bull discourage honda newbies right off the back tricking them into thinking there d motor is holding them back.most these guys settle for an intake header and a cheap piece of crap muffle welded to stock pipes and call it tuning.not that easy. if these guys at the mags made more stories of all motor d buildups pushing the envelope it would give more of a competitive feel to the import scene. 90% of all the civic/del sol owners in here at one time or an other had a d series. 9 out 10 hondas in mags are duel. if you are reading this and have a swap right now think about it .what made you over look the d motor and swap. maybe d series problems,moybe too weak but i bet the driving force was hype . hype about type r and si . where is the public hype for my motor that i love

2kCivicGuy

Wait so you're saying a 1999 si with an AEM CAI only put out 140ish hp?

That's just ODD seeing as they come stock with.. 160ish?

And not to bash on sohc's but i know the B can handle upwards of 500hp on a dyno using everything but the stock cams, pistons, and rods, NO sleeves.

(Nov 2005 HCI magazine)
This required some precise tuning of course, and an even more obvious turbo. But the near stock b16a2 handles 507hp and 339 ft-lb of torque at 24psi.
There were a few other things modified like the internal coil of the B16A distributor for use with an MSD ignition amp.

And this was before they were going to try running ice water in the air-to-water intercooler which they say would have yeilded a bit more power, but 507 out of a near stock block is quite impressive enough.

This is why I'm selling my 93' si for an 00' si.

I'm not saying this is a definate setup to use for obvious reasons but is good at showing the strength of a B-series engine, and if I had the time, and dedication i suppose a d16 build up wouldn't be neccessarily bad, I just have the funds to shoot for the B.

Also being afraid of opening your hood shouldnt be a factor, unless you running an unmodified d15 vtec-e with a pink valve cover. It's a HONDA strut your stuff!

Modified by 2kCivicGuy at 11:09 PM 5/11/2006


Modified by 2kCivicGuy at 11:11 PM 5/11/2006

ejonemydm

you gotta keep in mind that with a b16 you get a better tranny and with a tranny that is geared right you don't need a high hp car cause it will compensate. its the tranny that put the power to the floor

allmotorpowa

you forgot to mention that they got free itnernals

Jorsher

ej: the d16y8 tranny is geared low also

2kcivic: you gotta realize that the horsepower ratings car manufacturers give is hp at the crank, not to the wheels. You lose some power through the drivetrain. They are 160hp at the crank but I promise you won't get that much to the wheels. That's why I said 200whp, which would probably be 215-225hp if the manufacturer rated it.

IVAN93EG

i dont want you b series guys to think i hate gsr or type r or si's truth be told i envy you guys with the swaps.i just get mad becases were like the little brother that wants to run with big brother but were constantly told we cant hang because were too little and we might get hurt.one day this little brothers ganna prove all those with dout that we a just as capabale as the big boys and we can hold our own.

speedball3

Strange that this thread has so many trial users.... did u guys all come from sohchonda.com or something just to plug that article? haha.

That said, I agree that the D has much potential and since a lot of us start with that engine, why not stick with it? Though I suppose you also have to take into consideration reliability of a boosted D vs. a stock/mildly modded B-series. Without touching the internals of a D series (down time? can it be done in a weekend?) and with smog-law limited obd-II tuning (CA smog laws anyone?), swapping can look to be the easier, more reliable route.

Jorsher

D series is from what I've read/heard reliable up to 200-225whp on stock internals.

Isn't one of the CA laws that if another engine is swapped in, it has to be a newer year? I thought I heard that but not sure. Just glad I live in the southeast where we don't even get inspected

Fallen86

if u wanna think more extremely: say u wanted 300hp, u can do that easily and very cheaply with an SOHC, but if u wanna top out at 400 or 500hp... go with the B series... because yes u can get there with the D series, but it wont be easy OR cheap.