Secondary butterflies wires
11-17-2007, 03:31 AM
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Secondary butterflies wires
I have got a friend that has a OBD 1 GSR motor in a OBD 2 civic. he had got someone to wirer the car for him ( i am not sure how they reran the harness but his secondaries arent wired. i told him i would do it for him...
What i will do i run the wire form the canister under the manifold direct to the ECU. my question is that they are 2 wires. a pink and blue and i think a black, the pink and blue is signal and the black is ground....Can i run the black to anywhere that grounds on the chassis or do i have to splice it into the ECU GROUND ?
What i will do i run the wire form the canister under the manifold direct to the ECU. my question is that they are 2 wires. a pink and blue and i think a black, the pink and blue is signal and the black is ground....Can i run the black to anywhere that grounds on the chassis or do i have to splice it into the ECU GROUND ?
11-17-2007, 08:05 AM
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Secondaries work by being constantly powered to stay closed, then the ecu takes away the ground to open the butterflies up.
So...in my experience the pink/blue wire goes directly to the ecu and its a yellow/black wire as constant power from the 8 pin cannon plug.
So...in my experience the pink/blue wire goes directly to the ecu and its a yellow/black wire as constant power from the 8 pin cannon plug.
11-17-2007, 09:59 AM
#6
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Re: (zerovandez)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zerovandez »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">^^wrong. I don't know anything about power and blah blah blah. But i just successfully finished a GSR swap in my civic. Just run the pink/blue to ECU and the other chassis ground. Done.</TD></TR></TABLE>
It may work that way for some strange reason, but the correct way to do it is the way dc2vu said. The yellow/black wire is the solenoid voltage, not a ground. So maybe in your case you're keeping them open all the time, by just grounding it like that.
It may work that way for some strange reason, but the correct way to do it is the way dc2vu said. The yellow/black wire is the solenoid voltage, not a ground. So maybe in your case you're keeping them open all the time, by just grounding it like that.
11-17-2007, 10:32 AM
#7
Darth ModerVader
Re: (CivicSpoon)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CivicSpoon »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The yellow/black wire is the solenoid voltage, not a ground. So maybe in your case you're keeping them open all the time, by just grounding it like that. </TD></TR></TABLE>
According to the Helm, there are two wires for the IAB control solenoid valve. One is pink/blue, and the other is black. Pink/blue runs to the ECU. Black is ground.
According to the Helm, there are two wires for the IAB control solenoid valve. One is pink/blue, and the other is black. Pink/blue runs to the ECU. Black is ground.
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11-17-2007, 06:05 PM
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Re: (zerovandez)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zerovandez »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">^^wrong. I don't know anything about power and blah blah blah. But i just successfully finished a GSR swap in my civic. Just run the pink/blue to ECU and the other chassis ground. Done.</TD></TR></TABLE>
How are you going to tell me I'm wrong and then say you don't know how it works? Just because you ran one wire and it works doesn't mean that you know how the system works. Of course if you run the pink/blue wire directly to the ecu it's going to work. The solenoid gets constant power to stay closed. If the solenoid has power and IS NOT GROUNDED, it won't close. You simply grounded the system when you ran that one wire. When secondaries are engaged, your ecu takes the ground away causing the solenoid to sit in its neutral position (open).
This is all assuming you wired it to the correct pinout on the ecu A17.
Are you sure that your secondaries aren't constantly closed? As in, the ECU is giving constant power, and since you have the chassis as a ground that the solenoid is constantly powered?
I'm absolutely sure this is how it works or else I wouldn't be able to power my secondaries using VTEC as the power source to switch a relay causing secondaries to open up with VTEC on my H22. I also watched the secondaries open on the dyno, so if the secondaries work as you say, then my wiring of the relay would not have.
How are you going to tell me I'm wrong and then say you don't know how it works? Just because you ran one wire and it works doesn't mean that you know how the system works. Of course if you run the pink/blue wire directly to the ecu it's going to work. The solenoid gets constant power to stay closed. If the solenoid has power and IS NOT GROUNDED, it won't close. You simply grounded the system when you ran that one wire. When secondaries are engaged, your ecu takes the ground away causing the solenoid to sit in its neutral position (open).
This is all assuming you wired it to the correct pinout on the ecu A17.
Are you sure that your secondaries aren't constantly closed? As in, the ECU is giving constant power, and since you have the chassis as a ground that the solenoid is constantly powered?
I'm absolutely sure this is how it works or else I wouldn't be able to power my secondaries using VTEC as the power source to switch a relay causing secondaries to open up with VTEC on my H22. I also watched the secondaries open on the dyno, so if the secondaries work as you say, then my wiring of the relay would not have.
11-17-2007, 06:28 PM
#9
Darth ModerVader
Re: (dc2vu)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dc2vu »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When secondaries are engaged, your ecu takes the ground away causing the solenoid to sit in its neutral position (open).
This is all assuming you wired it to the correct pinout on the ecu A17.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The Helm seems to disagree with this information.
According to the manual, pin A26 accepts the pink/blue wire, which drives the IAB solenoid valve. Below 5750 RPM, the pin should provide battery voltage. Above 5750 RPM, voltage is zero.
Ground is shown to be the black wire and is a standard chassis ground.
This is all assuming you wired it to the correct pinout on the ecu A17.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The Helm seems to disagree with this information.
According to the manual, pin A26 accepts the pink/blue wire, which drives the IAB solenoid valve. Below 5750 RPM, the pin should provide battery voltage. Above 5750 RPM, voltage is zero.
Ground is shown to be the black wire and is a standard chassis ground.
11-17-2007, 06:44 PM
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Ah, A17 for OBD1 sorry. It may be 26 for OBD2 Vehicles. That's interesting about the ecu providing battery voltage, all of the cars I've worked on have secondaries working the same way I've described. GSR swapped Civics, Integras, H22/H23 Preludes, Accords, H22 Civics, H22 Integras...etc. All of which are using the stock ecu provided with the engine i.e. P13 or P72 that engagues the secondaries the way the factory would. I'm pretty much the only one running the secondaries with a relay because I'm using a P28.
I checked the information with the secondaries in they Hybrid section about the secondaries on the H22, and they mentioned it the same way you guys are. But when I ran the tests, all of the cars worked the same way mine did.
I checked continuity between the cannon power plug and the secondary solenoid, theres definately constant power there...so it wouldn't make sense to have the ecu sending more voltage to the solenoid.
I checked the information with the secondaries in they Hybrid section about the secondaries on the H22, and they mentioned it the same way you guys are. But when I ran the tests, all of the cars worked the same way mine did.
I checked continuity between the cannon power plug and the secondary solenoid, theres definately constant power there...so it wouldn't make sense to have the ecu sending more voltage to the solenoid.
11-17-2007, 07:00 PM
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Re: (HAMOTORSPORTSUSA)
Interesting, when I had a 1998 GSR swap in my car, the wire harness was still set up as I described above. Anyways, since the OP is working on an EK, I guess you guys are right. Sorry!
11-17-2007, 07:17 PM
#13
Darth ModerVader
Re: (HAMOTORSPORTSUSA)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HAMOTORSPORTSUSA »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lol, you are both correct, however, obd1 uses a positive trigger for the iab, while obd2 uses a ground for the trigger. 
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think you have that reversed.
</TD></TR></TABLE>I think you have that reversed.
11-18-2007, 05:11 AM
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Re: (Padawan)
I got i worked ... my friend has and OBD2 car but the engine and ECU is OBD1. he had bought a conversion harness ... so what i did was run the pink and blue wire through the firewall and down to the ECU and pulled out the pin at A17 in the conversion harness and plugged in teh pink and blue wire. the black wire i ran to i think it is A3 which is ECU ground.
Started it up and no CEL. drove the car still no CEL .... and the butterflies are working.
All in all i didnt kno where the Black wire went but i have a full harness in my garage which I traced the wire into their respective pins.
Started it up and no CEL. drove the car still no CEL .... and the butterflies are working.
All in all i didnt kno where the Black wire went but i have a full harness in my garage which I traced the wire into their respective pins.
11-19-2007, 08:55 AM
#16
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Re: (Padawan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Padawan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
According to the Helm, there are two wires for the IAB control solenoid valve. One is pink/blue, and the other is black. Pink/blue runs to the ECU. Black is ground.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
My Helms manual (downloaded) says that that's it goes to the Yellow/Black wire & not a ground. I don't know.
According to the Helm, there are two wires for the IAB control solenoid valve. One is pink/blue, and the other is black. Pink/blue runs to the ECU. Black is ground.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
My Helms manual (downloaded) says that that's it goes to the Yellow/Black wire & not a ground. I don't know.
11-19-2007, 09:46 AM
#17
Re: (HAMOTORSPORTSUSA)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HAMOTORSPORTSUSA »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lol, you are both correct, however, obd1 uses a positive trigger for the iab, while obd2 uses a ground for the trigger.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
</TD></TR></TABLE>
11-19-2007, 10:48 AM
#18
Darth ModerVader
Re: (CivicSpoon)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CivicSpoon »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My Helms manual (downloaded) says that that's it goes to the Yellow/Black wire & not a ground. I don't know.</TD></TR></TABLE>
What model year is the manual for?
What model year is the manual for?
11-19-2007, 11:35 AM
#19
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I don't really know how this stuff holds true. I've used an obd2 and obd1 wire harness and both have a constant power to the secondaries. Testing continuity between the power plug and the plug to the solenoid is the only way to tell. That or watching the secondaries open up on the dyno.
11-19-2007, 11:02 PM
#20
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Re: (Padawan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Padawan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
What model year is the manual for?</TD></TR></TABLE>
The only year I see in it (at a quick glance) is '94.
What model year is the manual for?</TD></TR></TABLE>
The only year I see in it (at a quick glance) is '94.
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