Dontoh

I'm in an extreme rush, I've got college coming up (3 hours away from home) and my only means of transportation is my hatch.. I'm in the middle of a swap, and the motor is said to run rich, however I'm pretty sure I won't be able to have it tuned before I leave..

I know running lean is a no-no, but is it okay if I run rich probably for a few weeks or so until I can afford/have time to get it tuned?

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

I don't think this is good for the cylinder walls over time. How much time I'm not sure of.

fleabag

If you're willing to risk damaging your engine, catalytic converter and **** away money on gasoline, then sure it's alright. If you need to get the car running RIGHT now, then I suggest trying to use a stock ECU in the interim unless you've fubared up the car beyond recognition.

Dontoh

thats what i was thinking, and exactly what i'm wondering.. the extra gas would prob cause some sort of build up ya know.. thanks for the input tho g

thanks for the sarcasm and assumption that i've cobbed my car together..

your grammar is terrible btw.. take that

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

Actually I've read it washes the cylinder walls clean of all lubrication-or something to that effect. Not to mention what was said about quickly destroying the catalytic converter.

fleabag

Your post says it all:
Sounds 'cobbled together' to me... I have no idea what you have done to your car but the idea that you think your car needs to be 'tuned' says to me you've either got a hodge podge of non 'stock' parts from different cars or you think your poorly running car only needs a tune and not a tune-up. Until your car has a complete swap and everything running as it should, it's exactly what you're saying I'm saying it is. lol Lots of people attempt swaps but don't finish them because they don't know what they're doing and from my perspective, that's exactly what it is. Finally, if you think my grammar is so bad, why don't you correct it and then explain it to everyone how and why my grammar is so bad.

Dontoh

ahh, I didn't think of that grumble.. maybe I just have to work my *** off to get it put back together in order to have the time to get it tuned before school.. seems like my last option

Sounds cobbed, but you have no idea what's been done..?

The head is a type r head, on a b20b block, built from the bottom up, professionally from a shop in down in florida.. it's not a poorly running car, it runs amazing- it was a last minute resort to dish out the money to buy the motor from a buddy in order to get my *** to college, which IS a priority to me..

the reason why it was never tuned, is simply the old owner couldn't afford it.. the most he could do was have it run a little rich, considering its a lot safer to run rich than lean..

i'm an 18 y.o kid who put this car together from literally frame rails to fresh paint, and not once did i cut a corner because i have pride in my work. any idea how it feels to come on a forum asking an honest question just to have some random *** kid say my car is cobbed?

anyway, i'm not here to argue, i'm here to get an answer to which seemed like an honest questions.. if that's too hard for you to do, then i'm kindly asking you to stop posting in this thread and move on.

oh, and considering that "FUBAR" is an acronym, i'll go ahead and correct you since you still can't figure it out..

"..unless you've f*cked up beyond all recognition'ed up the car beyond recognition." explain how [b]that/[b] makes any sense, considering i just explained it to you and "everyone" as you wanted me too.. no, i take that back.. don't explain, just leave it alone, its easier

apologies for the size of the pictures, just took them
about 2 months or so ago:




2 full time jobs and some bloody knuckes later..right now:

Linked

ruining a cat converter is probably the most common for running rich. you'll probably cake up the valves

cat covnerter is the most common

fleabag

Nice sob story you've got there. I see you're proud of what you've accomplished which I can understand but the way I see it, you now need to hit the pavement running and get this quickly resolved before you turn your investment into a pile of parts. My question is, how rich is your car running and why is it even running rich if you're using a stock ECU? Have you changed anything else besides the valve head? How exactly are you getting this car to run rich vs. lean unless you're using a modified ECU and or are missing certain emission parts? If you want the car in normal running condition, just finish the swap and instead of getting the car tuned, use a stock ECU that is as compatible with your setup as possible. I'd say get what ever stock ECU you can get that most closely matches your wiring harness and sensors you have and use that in the interim. But if you have to start cutting up wires and disconnecting/ignoring sensors in order to finish your swap, then I'd say it's pretty much a hodge podge of parts until you get that setup tuned. If you're scared or know you can't get this all done in time, then I suggest paying a shop to finish the job so that you don't do any more damage to the car than necessary.
I'm quite aware of "fubar" being an acronym and you're technically right, however because I'm using "fubar" as a verb and not just as an acronym, I think I should get a pass and be able to use 'ed' at the end of it. It's like when people say "PIN number" or Microsoft saying "Built on NT Technology" where PIN means "Personal Identification Number" so saying PIN number is saying Personal Identification Number Number and "NT" in "Windows NT" stands for New Technology so saying "NT Technology" is really saying "New Technology Technology" but I digress.

Dontoh

Really hope it doesn't have to come to that. balance is at -20k after trying to pay for college..

the ecu is from speed innovations, i have done NOTHING to the motor except buy it, pressure wash it, paint the block and drop it in.. so the ecu isn't exactly stock, however i have a spare p28 laying around.. would that be safer to use? i would definitely steer away from cutting wires and ignoring sensors, if it came to that then i'd just put it off until i can deal with it, thought thats sorta last resort.. i wonder if i could get a half *** tune so at least it runs a lot more healthier

fleabag

We're going to need a lot more details about this swap than the block and the valve head you got. Is this an OBD-I or OBD-II engine? Where is the intake manifold and its sensors from? etc etc Do you even think this car will ever pass smog? Did you ever INTEND for the car to pass smog? Do you have a catalytic converter? All these details are pertinent to figuring out how to get the car running normally, even if you already have mixed at least two parts (head and block).

Dontoh

honestly, i'm not a motor guy.. i'd much rather do bodywork.. however, its obd1.. idc about the car passing smog, i live in new york. there's no cat, and i'll have more details on the IM in the morning

94EG8

I can tell you running rich isn't good for it. All that extra gas washes the oil off the cylinder walls creating some pretty extreme wear conditions. But as far as what happens for damage it all depends on how right it is, how far off the ignition timing is how long you drive it etc.

thenext

Anyone know WHY it is running rich? Running with no cat can make it smell like it is running rich. I know from experience one or two teeth off is one thing but I have driven a civic with the timing waaay off and super rich and it lagged like a never ending turbo.

Dontoh

running lean/rich has to do with the timing? i thought it was based on the ecu/tune.. is there anyway i can adjust it myself then?

87bimmer325

You tune cars with turbos you do this with an aftermarket fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, and a fuel managment program wich you do not have., you tune up cars with out Get the ecu that goes in the car you got the head from. That will make it run normal

Dontoh

i'm not sure that i can, the head (and dont quote me on this) was originally obd2, but seems as though it was converted to obd1 since everything plugs into my obd1 car

thenext

92-95 civics are all OB1

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

Back up to the original question. Why do you think it's running rich? Possibly I missed that part.

Dontoh

well honestly, i don't know that it's running rich.. when i took it for a spin in the teg that it came out of, my buddy was following and said that it looked as though it was running rich. when i asked the owner he said that he "..couldn't afford a full tune, so it was only semi-tuned and runs richer than it should, instead of lean..".. so i just kinda went with his word

fleabag

I have no idea what is going on. Duontoh, why don't you explain this car in exacting detail so we can understand the history behind the car and what has and hasn't been done to the car. I mean without knowing, the only thing I can suggest is use the Integra Type R ECU with it and see if it runs normally. what ecu are you currently using?

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

Was it smoking or something? I don't know what a "partial tune" is but if the ECU is chipped maybe you can order a better basemap from Phearable.

Dontoh

haha, alright. lets ignore everything thats been said.. i'll start again with a little more background and detail

awhile back, my d15 went to ****.. so i picked up a b20b4 motor with a gsr head and tranny with the last of my money.. it was a desperate buy, since i needed to get my car going again.. turns out, the head was wasted on it..

so after counting my pennies up yet again, i went down to test drive the motor i have now.. it was in an obd1 integra.. and THIS IS WHAT I KNOW ABOUT IT

according to the old owner
he purchased it from florida, where it was "built to be supercharged" by a shop. he said he had all the receipts, and some serious money went into it..

the motor came with an ecu from speed innovations, with launch control, rev limiter and all that crap..

he told me that he couldn't afford to have it tuned, but he paid a shop to at least getting running rich instead of lean.. why? i'm not sure.

head is stamped p3-3, type r and the block is a b20b.

after i test drove it, a buddy and i asked about the smoke and he told us the story about why its running rich.. few days later, i went down to his place, we pulled the motor, threw it in the back of the truck, handed over the cash and drove home.

so am i certain its running rich? no, by no means.. but i have no reason to think otherwise..

i was going to order an ecu from phearable.net but figured if they're both chipped, there's no point.. but thinking about it now, maybe it'll help it run better, not perfect, but better.. i know i should still need a dyno tune eventually..

this thread might help clear things up
https://honda-tech.com/forums/engine-management-tuning-124/new-motor-couple-tuning-questions-2954356/#post45579724

so basically, is there a quicker way than making an appointment at a shop and waiting to have it fixed, yet still run right?

fleabag

Alright, so I guess the simple answer is, get a STOCK ECU that most closely matches the motor. Either get an ECU that matches what you had prior to the valve head swap or get one that matches the valve head. I don't know if the valve head you choose for that motor is similar or pretty dissimilar to what that motor had but the important thing is that you don't choose an ECU that requires different sensors and or wiring than what you've currently got. I'm not much of a "B-series" kind of person but I am a "D-series" person and so I can really only explain this in terms of D-series. If you have an OBD-I D series, say originally a D16Z1 but had the valve head swapped with the D16Y8 and an aftermarket ECU, then the simplest thing to do is use a D16Z1 ECU instead of trying to get a Y8 manifold+sensors and having to convert to OBD-II to use the newer ECU. Another common swap which I don't recommend but people do anyway because they're tards is on a D16Y5 motor, they put a Y8 valve head. In that instance, the simplest thing to do is stick with the Y5 ECU since the sensors and electronics, dizzy, etc. are so different from the Y8 that trying to use a Y8 ECU would only lead to major headaches and a full swap would have made more sense instead.

Dontoh

would just getting a stock ecu solve the problem though? its a different block, but again- i have no idea if that affects how the ecu and head work with each other.. would it be better to just send my ecu out to phearable and let them put a better basemap on it?