Roll cage for 92-95 civics
09-01-2006, 08:13 PM
#2
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Roll cage for 92-95 civics (SleeeeepyDX)
christ...here we go again
putting a rollcage in a street car is very unsafe and i HIGHLY advise against it.
just breeze through this thread
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1727917
we just covered this
putting a rollcage in a street car is very unsafe and i HIGHLY advise against it.
just breeze through this thread
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1727917
we just covered this
09-01-2006, 10:06 PM
#4
be professional
Re: Roll cage for 92-95 civics (SleeeeepyDX)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SleeeeepyDX »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">does anyone know where i can find a rollcage for my civic?</TD></TR></TABLE>
If it's for a street-driven car, forget a complete roll cage. Just get a roll bar. Main hoop, 2 rear supports, diagonal in main hoop plane, and harness bar minimum. Check the SCCA GCR/NASA CCR or the NHRA rules for exact specifications and tolerances, depending on which organization you intend to race with.
I recommend a custom job by a local fabricator familiar with automotive rollover protection first, Kirk Racing second, and Autopower third. Kirk and Autopower also have bolt-in models if you are not looking to weld.
If it's for a street-driven car, forget a complete roll cage. Just get a roll bar. Main hoop, 2 rear supports, diagonal in main hoop plane, and harness bar minimum. Check the SCCA GCR/NASA CCR or the NHRA rules for exact specifications and tolerances, depending on which organization you intend to race with.
I recommend a custom job by a local fabricator familiar with automotive rollover protection first, Kirk Racing second, and Autopower third. Kirk and Autopower also have bolt-in models if you are not looking to weld.
09-02-2006, 05:54 PM
#6
be professional
Re: Roll cage for 92-95 civics (Kamin)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kamin »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">um somehow i highly dobut a 17 year old is racing. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Good call. After seeing his CarDomain page, I fully understand your point.
Good call. After seeing his CarDomain page, I fully understand your point.
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09-02-2006, 08:18 PM
#8
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Re: Roll cage for 92-95 civics (Kamin)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kamin »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">putting a rollcage in a street car is very unsafe and i HIGHLY advise against it.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Man oh man. This topic may have been beaten to death, but I think it's still a valid subject to be discussed. I still run a full cage in my car when I'm off the track because of the possibility of this:
https://honda-tech.com/zero...age=1
(If he had a full cage, would the outcome have been different?)
And also of the fact that those who oppose it have yet to point out (as far as I've read) a more valid argument then "you might hit your head on the bar".
Please don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating anything. Just point my in the right direction on finding some facts as to why I should take the front part of my cage out.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Man oh man. This topic may have been beaten to death, but I think it's still a valid subject to be discussed. I still run a full cage in my car when I'm off the track because of the possibility of this:
https://honda-tech.com/zero...age=1
(If he had a full cage, would the outcome have been different?)
And also of the fact that those who oppose it have yet to point out (as far as I've read) a more valid argument then "you might hit your head on the bar".
Please don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating anything. Just point my in the right direction on finding some facts as to why I should take the front part of my cage out.
09-02-2006, 09:03 PM
#9
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Roll cage for 92-95 civics (mrlegoman)
good christ this is the second time ive argued this with that car
THAT IS NOT A ******* ROLLCAGE
THAT IS A ROLLBAR
here.
ROLLBAR
ROLLBAR WITH DOOR BARS
ROLL CAGE
now tell me what was in that car, and what we are talking about.
there is HUGE ******* difference between a roll cage, and what you/that car have. see the difference? and see the safety hazzard with a rollCAGE versus a rollBAR?
Modified by Kamin at 10:19 PM 9/2/2006
THAT IS NOT A ******* ROLLCAGE
THAT IS A ROLLBAR
here.
ROLLBAR
ROLLBAR WITH DOOR BARS
ROLL CAGE
now tell me what was in that car, and what we are talking about.
there is HUGE ******* difference between a roll cage, and what you/that car have. see the difference? and see the safety hazzard with a rollCAGE versus a rollBAR?
Modified by Kamin at 10:19 PM 9/2/2006
09-02-2006, 09:29 PM
#10
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Re: Roll cage for 92-95 civics (Kamin)
I don't get your point.
What b20vtecEK had in his car looked like a roll bar with door bars.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kamin »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">putting a rollcage in a street car is very unsafe and i HIGHLY advise against it. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I have a full rollcage. SleeeeepyDX is asking about a rollcage.
I asked the question pertaining to b20vtecEK:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mrlegoman »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If he had a full cage, would the outcome have been different?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
A better question would be, do you think the outcome would have been the same if he would have not had anything in the car at all?
So that leaves me wonder what your talking about and why your yelling at me.
What b20vtecEK had in his car looked like a roll bar with door bars.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kamin »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">putting a rollcage in a street car is very unsafe and i HIGHLY advise against it. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I have a full rollcage. SleeeeepyDX is asking about a rollcage.
I asked the question pertaining to b20vtecEK:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mrlegoman »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If he had a full cage, would the outcome have been different?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
A better question would be, do you think the outcome would have been the same if he would have not had anything in the car at all?
So that leaves me wonder what your talking about and why your yelling at me.
09-02-2006, 09:37 PM
#11
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Roll cage for 92-95 civics (mrlegoman)
do you seriously not see the giant safety hazzard with running a 2" diameter steel bar inches from your head?
thats why a CAGE is unacceptable for the street.
im yelling at you because you, along with a ton of other people dont understand the simple difference between a rollbar and a rollcage and why one is a HELL of alot safer than the other for street driving.
there is absolutley no way to tell if there would be any different outcome from that accident with pictures on the internet. period.
sleepydx is 17 years old and probably owns a 19 second honda civic. he dosent need a rollbar or a rollcage. thats totally ******* pointless.
and rollcages dont belong in street cars.
thats why a CAGE is unacceptable for the street.
im yelling at you because you, along with a ton of other people dont understand the simple difference between a rollbar and a rollcage and why one is a HELL of alot safer than the other for street driving.
there is absolutley no way to tell if there would be any different outcome from that accident with pictures on the internet. period.
sleepydx is 17 years old and probably owns a 19 second honda civic. he dosent need a rollbar or a rollcage. thats totally ******* pointless.
and rollcages dont belong in street cars.
09-02-2006, 10:07 PM
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Re: Roll cage for 92-95 civics (Kamin)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kamin »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">do you seriously not see the giant safety hazzard with running a 2" diameter steel bar inches from your head?
thats why a CAGE is unacceptable for the street.
sleepydx is 17 years old and probably owns a 19 second honda civic. he dosent need a rollbar or a rollcage. thats totally ******* pointless.
and rollcages dont belong in street cars. </TD></TR></TABLE>
yup, yup
thats why a CAGE is unacceptable for the street.
sleepydx is 17 years old and probably owns a 19 second honda civic. he dosent need a rollbar or a rollcage. thats totally ******* pointless.
and rollcages dont belong in street cars. </TD></TR></TABLE>
yup, yup
09-02-2006, 10:17 PM
#14
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Re: (B2CivMan)
no because every ricer and their friend would come out and tell me im wrong and how their friends brothers best friends cousin was in an accident with a rollcage and walked away and now they know every car must have one. then proceed to tell me im wrong and how i dont know anything about safety.
09-02-2006, 10:41 PM
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Roll cages in street cars are about as safe as racing harnesses in street cars (and I have a feeling a bunch of people are going to say "VERY safe"). Due to the nature of most street accidents oppposed to racing accidents, a roll cage will do more harm than good in a street car. The purpose of a roll cage is to do exactly taht - protect the roof from cracking ur neck in half when ur car is rolling - it will not help you in a front end collision - racers usually don't need help in case of front end collisions because they're all going the same way. The chances of you doing a 200mph cartwheel opposed to a nascar are very unlikely. Please, simply: do not put a roll cage in your car. A roll BAR is okay...I wouldn't do it...but it's better than a roll cage in a street app...you still have a chance of having a serious injury because of it.
Here, I'll simplify why:
Roll cages/rollbars prevent roof cave ins in the event of a horizontal roll-over.
Your stock saftey system prevents front end/rear end collision - it's called a "crumple zone."
Chance of rolling the car 20x in an autocross race doing 170 - LIKELY
Why? Because the most likely accident is to spin out - if a tire catches, you will roll, the roll cage will protect you.
Unlikely accidents to happen in an autocross race: Front end/rear end collisions.
Why? Because they're all moving (hopefully) in the same direction.
On the street:
Chance of you having a front end/rear end collision: Highest.
Why? Because most accidents are somebody rear ending somebody else or front ending somebody else - followed by T-bone accidents.
Lowest accident type in street conditions: Believe it or not it's roll-over...why? Because it's unlikely you're going to do a 200mph roll for obvious reasons.
With that said, a roll cage can cause serious injury to the driver when in a front or rear end collision - it is meant for it's name "roll." In street applications rolls actually have the LOWEST chance of happening (despite all the drunk driver pictures of rollover cars on the bulletin board at your highschool).
So weigh it yourself. You can go rollcage, be protected against rolls, but fatal injury goes up by a good 30-60% in every other kind of accident. No roll cage, your fatal injury rate goes down 30-60% in every type of accident EXCEPT roll overs in which your fatal injury rate goes up...but not much. If I had to guestimate that number I'd say that's probably 20% or so. Reason being is it's a civic, it's a weak unibody regardless of how you slice it. Though rollovers are still less likely than other kinds of accidents.
In the link pictured - the guy was saved because he was ******* LUCKY. That's the only reason, the roll bar didn't save him. As you can see, the roll bar actually smashed THROUGH the roof (kinda rendering it useless in terms of keeping the roof from caving in). This happend because it buckled due to forward inertia (obviously - the beer can crunching effect).
Don't go with a roll cage - it's not worth the money or fatal injury chance increase. Though as to where you can find a rollcage? EVERYWHERE, they're all over the place, and I'm sure your local welder would be the best to go to for that. Although he'll tell you the same thing I did - and he even may not do it due to the fact it's just creating a saftey hazzard that's now on his hands.
Here, I'll simplify why:
Roll cages/rollbars prevent roof cave ins in the event of a horizontal roll-over.
Your stock saftey system prevents front end/rear end collision - it's called a "crumple zone."
Chance of rolling the car 20x in an autocross race doing 170 - LIKELY
Why? Because the most likely accident is to spin out - if a tire catches, you will roll, the roll cage will protect you.
Unlikely accidents to happen in an autocross race: Front end/rear end collisions.
Why? Because they're all moving (hopefully) in the same direction.
On the street:
Chance of you having a front end/rear end collision: Highest.
Why? Because most accidents are somebody rear ending somebody else or front ending somebody else - followed by T-bone accidents.
Lowest accident type in street conditions: Believe it or not it's roll-over...why? Because it's unlikely you're going to do a 200mph roll for obvious reasons.
With that said, a roll cage can cause serious injury to the driver when in a front or rear end collision - it is meant for it's name "roll." In street applications rolls actually have the LOWEST chance of happening (despite all the drunk driver pictures of rollover cars on the bulletin board at your highschool).
So weigh it yourself. You can go rollcage, be protected against rolls, but fatal injury goes up by a good 30-60% in every other kind of accident. No roll cage, your fatal injury rate goes down 30-60% in every type of accident EXCEPT roll overs in which your fatal injury rate goes up...but not much. If I had to guestimate that number I'd say that's probably 20% or so. Reason being is it's a civic, it's a weak unibody regardless of how you slice it. Though rollovers are still less likely than other kinds of accidents.
In the link pictured - the guy was saved because he was ******* LUCKY. That's the only reason, the roll bar didn't save him. As you can see, the roll bar actually smashed THROUGH the roof (kinda rendering it useless in terms of keeping the roof from caving in). This happend because it buckled due to forward inertia (obviously - the beer can crunching effect).
Don't go with a roll cage - it's not worth the money or fatal injury chance increase. Though as to where you can find a rollcage? EVERYWHERE, they're all over the place, and I'm sure your local welder would be the best to go to for that. Although he'll tell you the same thing I did - and he even may not do it due to the fact it's just creating a saftey hazzard that's now on his hands.
09-02-2006, 11:14 PM
#17
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (Syndacate)
couple small corrections i have to make
autocrossing is NOT road racing. autocrossing is very low speed and low risk compared to open track HPDE or High Performance Driver Education. (autocross = cones in a parking lot. speeds rarley reach 60mph)
and tires dont just "catch" on pavment causing a rollover. ive never seen of or heard of a car on street tires rolling over that wasnt related to an off track or other car incident.
autocrossing is NOT road racing. autocrossing is very low speed and low risk compared to open track HPDE or High Performance Driver Education. (autocross = cones in a parking lot. speeds rarley reach 60mph)
and tires dont just "catch" on pavment causing a rollover. ive never seen of or heard of a car on street tires rolling over that wasnt related to an off track or other car incident.
09-03-2006, 07:54 AM
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Re: Roll cage for 92-95 civics (Kamin)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kamin »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">do you seriously not see the giant safety hazzard with running a 2" diameter steel bar inches from your head?
thats why a CAGE is unacceptable for the street.
im yelling at you because you, along with a ton of other people dont understand the simple difference between a rollbar and a rollcage and why one is a HELL of alot safer than the other for street driving.
there is absolutley no way to tell if there would be any different outcome from that accident with pictures on the internet. period.
sleepydx is 17 years old and probably owns a 19 second honda civic. he dosent need a rollbar or a rollcage. thats totally ******* pointless.
and rollcages dont belong in street cars. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I have a fully padded (race padding, not the soft padding chit) cage. No, I don't see a difference between hitting my head on a padded bar as opposed to non-padded door frame.
I don't understand where you get the impression that I don't know the difference between a rollcage and a rollbar. I think you misunderstood something I posted.
I know there is no way to tell for sure, but if there was a full x-braced cage in a wreck like his, would that not have prevented the front end collapsing on his legs?
I have over 26 HPDE's on just about every track on the east coast. I was doing HPDE's while you were still learning to jerk-off to JC Penny catalog's. So quit yelling and making assumptions.
Syndacate: Good post. I'm going to re-read it a few more time and let it sink in. I understand the main purpose of a rollcage is for the protection in roll-overs. But I'm not too clear on why it would not help in a side or frontal impact. I'm going to do some more searches and re-read previous discussions. Most of the discussion seems to stem from OT posts (like this one). I think B2CivMan is right and a dedicated post should be formed.
thats why a CAGE is unacceptable for the street.
im yelling at you because you, along with a ton of other people dont understand the simple difference between a rollbar and a rollcage and why one is a HELL of alot safer than the other for street driving.
there is absolutley no way to tell if there would be any different outcome from that accident with pictures on the internet. period.
sleepydx is 17 years old and probably owns a 19 second honda civic. he dosent need a rollbar or a rollcage. thats totally ******* pointless.
and rollcages dont belong in street cars. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I have a fully padded (race padding, not the soft padding chit) cage. No, I don't see a difference between hitting my head on a padded bar as opposed to non-padded door frame.
I don't understand where you get the impression that I don't know the difference between a rollcage and a rollbar. I think you misunderstood something I posted.
I know there is no way to tell for sure, but if there was a full x-braced cage in a wreck like his, would that not have prevented the front end collapsing on his legs?
I have over 26 HPDE's on just about every track on the east coast. I was doing HPDE's while you were still learning to jerk-off to JC Penny catalog's. So quit yelling and making assumptions.
Syndacate: Good post. I'm going to re-read it a few more time and let it sink in. I understand the main purpose of a rollcage is for the protection in roll-overs. But I'm not too clear on why it would not help in a side or frontal impact. I'm going to do some more searches and re-read previous discussions. Most of the discussion seems to stem from OT posts (like this one). I think B2CivMan is right and a dedicated post should be formed.
09-03-2006, 08:03 AM
#19
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Re: (Kamin)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kamin »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">couple small corrections i have to make
autocrossing is NOT road racing. autocrossing is very low speed and low risk compared to open track HPDE or High Performance Driver Education. (autocross = cones in a parking lot. speeds rarley reach 60mph)
and tires dont just "catch" on pavment causing a rollover. ive never seen of or heard of a car on street tires rolling over that wasnt related to an off track or other car incident. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm sorry, I never said, implied, or tried to imply that street racing is autocrossing. I agree with you on the definition by the way you posted it though - and yes, I don't compare it to something like F1 or NASCARs because it's definately not the same when it comes to speeds.
Tires don't usually catch on the pavement, usually when the car slides onto the grass & they catch there...though they do from time to time roll over on the pavement. That would be the purpose of the roll cage. Watch the last 10 minuts of a NASCAR race, they'll go over all the crashes in that race - if you notice, they're either spin outs, or if ya get really lucky, a spinout that results in a roll is one of the most common. I'm sure you can look that up online too.
"ive never seen of or heard of a car on street tires rolling over that wasnt related to an off track or other car incident."
Then you DEFINATELY, DEFINATLEY, need to look up some accidents or something because you haven't really seen the half of 'em yet yet :-\.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mrlegoman »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Syndacate: Good post. I'm going to re-read it a few more time and let it sink in. I understand the main purpose of a rollcage is for the protection in roll-overs. But I'm not too clear on why it would not help in a side or frontal impact. I'm going to do some more searches and re-read previous discussions. Most of the discussion seems to stem from OT posts (like this one). I think B2CivMan is right and a dedicated post should be formed.</TD></TR></TABLE>
A dedicated post (though it should) most likely won't be formed. But in the event that it is, it should also include the answers to harnesses, as that's another question of the same type (track saftey that does more harm than good on the street).
Ha, now taht I think of it, harnesses are the same exact deal, they're meant for rollovers, not for front end or rear end collisions O.o.
autocrossing is NOT road racing. autocrossing is very low speed and low risk compared to open track HPDE or High Performance Driver Education. (autocross = cones in a parking lot. speeds rarley reach 60mph)
and tires dont just "catch" on pavment causing a rollover. ive never seen of or heard of a car on street tires rolling over that wasnt related to an off track or other car incident. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm sorry, I never said, implied, or tried to imply that street racing is autocrossing. I agree with you on the definition by the way you posted it though - and yes, I don't compare it to something like F1 or NASCARs because it's definately not the same when it comes to speeds.
Tires don't usually catch on the pavement, usually when the car slides onto the grass & they catch there...though they do from time to time roll over on the pavement. That would be the purpose of the roll cage. Watch the last 10 minuts of a NASCAR race, they'll go over all the crashes in that race - if you notice, they're either spin outs, or if ya get really lucky, a spinout that results in a roll is one of the most common. I'm sure you can look that up online too.
"ive never seen of or heard of a car on street tires rolling over that wasnt related to an off track or other car incident."
Then you DEFINATELY, DEFINATLEY, need to look up some accidents or something because you haven't really seen the half of 'em yet yet :-\.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mrlegoman »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Syndacate: Good post. I'm going to re-read it a few more time and let it sink in. I understand the main purpose of a rollcage is for the protection in roll-overs. But I'm not too clear on why it would not help in a side or frontal impact. I'm going to do some more searches and re-read previous discussions. Most of the discussion seems to stem from OT posts (like this one). I think B2CivMan is right and a dedicated post should be formed.</TD></TR></TABLE>
A dedicated post (though it should) most likely won't be formed. But in the event that it is, it should also include the answers to harnesses, as that's another question of the same type (track saftey that does more harm than good on the street).
Ha, now taht I think of it, harnesses are the same exact deal, they're meant for rollovers, not for front end or rear end collisions O.o.
09-03-2006, 09:18 AM
#21
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Roll cage for 92-95 civics (mrlegoman)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mrlegoman »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have a fully padded (race padding, not the soft padding chit) cage. No, I don't see a difference between hitting my head on a padded bar as opposed to non-padded door frame.
I don't understand where you get the impression that I don't know the difference between a rollcage and a rollbar. I think you misunderstood something I posted.
I know there is no way to tell for sure, but if there was a full x-braced cage in a wreck like his, would that not have prevented the front end collapsing on his legs?
I have over 26 HPDE's on just about every track on the east coast. I was doing HPDE's while you were still learning to jerk-off to JC Penny catalog's. So quit yelling and making assumptions.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
the fact that the rollcage with padding is 4-6 inches closer to your head than the stock doorframe. the SFI padding works, but ive seen people get concussions wearing helmets when hitting it. thats gonna do some damage without a helmet.
you may have been doing HPDE's since i was "still learning to jerk-off to JC Penny catalog's" but i have about 20 DE events under my belt, im an instructor, and i sell racing safety equipment for a living with one of the largest online retailers on the planet (we are the largest sparco retailer in the US). so dont think im some snot nosed drifter kid talking ****. this is what i do day in and day out.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Syndacate »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Tires don't usually catch on the pavement, usually when the car slides onto the grass & they catch there...though they do from time to time roll over on the pavement. That would be the purpose of the roll cage. Watch the last 10 minuts of a NASCAR race, they'll go over all the crashes in that race - if you notice, they're either spin outs, or if ya get really lucky, a spinout that results in a roll is one of the most common. I'm sure you can look that up online too.
"ive never seen of or heard of a car on street tires rolling over that wasnt related to an off track or other car incident."
Then you DEFINATELY, DEFINATLEY, need to look up some accidents or something because you haven't really seen the half of 'em yet yet :-\.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I know cars do rollover, ive seen it happen in person on a few occasions. but if you read a little closer i said on *street* tires. nobody who has posted in this thread is using r compound tires, and im pretty damn confident nobody is at speeds where aerodynamics from a spin are going to cause a car to lift off the ground.
juuust clearing that up.
I don't understand where you get the impression that I don't know the difference between a rollcage and a rollbar. I think you misunderstood something I posted.
I know there is no way to tell for sure, but if there was a full x-braced cage in a wreck like his, would that not have prevented the front end collapsing on his legs?
I have over 26 HPDE's on just about every track on the east coast. I was doing HPDE's while you were still learning to jerk-off to JC Penny catalog's. So quit yelling and making assumptions.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
the fact that the rollcage with padding is 4-6 inches closer to your head than the stock doorframe. the SFI padding works, but ive seen people get concussions wearing helmets when hitting it. thats gonna do some damage without a helmet.
you may have been doing HPDE's since i was "still learning to jerk-off to JC Penny catalog's" but i have about 20 DE events under my belt, im an instructor, and i sell racing safety equipment for a living with one of the largest online retailers on the planet (we are the largest sparco retailer in the US). so dont think im some snot nosed drifter kid talking ****. this is what i do day in and day out.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Syndacate »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Tires don't usually catch on the pavement, usually when the car slides onto the grass & they catch there...though they do from time to time roll over on the pavement. That would be the purpose of the roll cage. Watch the last 10 minuts of a NASCAR race, they'll go over all the crashes in that race - if you notice, they're either spin outs, or if ya get really lucky, a spinout that results in a roll is one of the most common. I'm sure you can look that up online too.
"ive never seen of or heard of a car on street tires rolling over that wasnt related to an off track or other car incident."
Then you DEFINATELY, DEFINATLEY, need to look up some accidents or something because you haven't really seen the half of 'em yet yet :-\.
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I know cars do rollover, ive seen it happen in person on a few occasions. but if you read a little closer i said on *street* tires. nobody who has posted in this thread is using r compound tires, and im pretty damn confident nobody is at speeds where aerodynamics from a spin are going to cause a car to lift off the ground.
juuust clearing that up.
09-03-2006, 09:51 AM
#22
be professional
Re: Roll cage for 92-95 civics (Kamin)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kamin »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">nobody who has posted in this thread is using r compound tires</TD></TR></TABLE>
Speak for yourself
By the way, I've seen and heard of several cars at autocrosses rolling solely due to tire grip - however those were all on a high-grip concrete surface in Solo Stock-class sedans (meaning non sports car based), which utilize R-compound tires coupled with very little roll stiffness, a high center of gravity causing excessive lateral weight transfer, and a lot of damper rebound force. This is a very uncommon event and it takes several factors coming together for it to happen.
Speak for yourself
By the way, I've seen and heard of several cars at autocrosses rolling solely due to tire grip - however those were all on a high-grip concrete surface in Solo Stock-class sedans (meaning non sports car based), which utilize R-compound tires coupled with very little roll stiffness, a high center of gravity causing excessive lateral weight transfer, and a lot of damper rebound force. This is a very uncommon event and it takes several factors coming together for it to happen.
09-03-2006, 10:07 AM
#23
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Re: Roll cage for 92-95 civics (Kamin)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kamin »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I know cars do rollover, ive seen it happen in person on a few occasions. but if you read a little closer i said on *street* tires. nobody who has posted in this thread is using r compound tires, and im pretty damn confident nobody is at speeds where aerodynamics from a spin are going to cause a car to lift off the ground.
juuust clearing that up. </TD></TR></TABLE>
True @ That...
Point is simple - roll cages and harnesses do more harm than good off the track.
I know cars do rollover, ive seen it happen in person on a few occasions. but if you read a little closer i said on *street* tires. nobody who has posted in this thread is using r compound tires, and im pretty damn confident nobody is at speeds where aerodynamics from a spin are going to cause a car to lift off the ground.
juuust clearing that up.
</TD></TR></TABLE>True @ That...
Point is simple - roll cages and harnesses do more harm than good off the track.
09-03-2006, 10:15 AM
#24
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Roll cage for 92-95 civics (Targa250R)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Speak for yourself
By the way, I've seen and heard of several cars at autocrosses rolling solely due to tire grip - however those were all on a high-grip concrete surface in Solo Stock-class sedans (meaning non sports car based), which utilize R-compound tires coupled with very little roll stiffness, a high center of gravity causing excessive lateral weight transfer, and a lot of damper rebound force. This is a very uncommon event and it takes several factors coming together for it to happen.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i know
thats why i said *STREET* tires
r compounds are a whole other world.
By the way, I've seen and heard of several cars at autocrosses rolling solely due to tire grip - however those were all on a high-grip concrete surface in Solo Stock-class sedans (meaning non sports car based), which utilize R-compound tires coupled with very little roll stiffness, a high center of gravity causing excessive lateral weight transfer, and a lot of damper rebound force. This is a very uncommon event and it takes several factors coming together for it to happen.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i know
thats why i said *STREET* tires
r compounds are a whole other world.
09-03-2006, 10:23 AM
#25
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Re: Roll cage for 92-95 civics (Kamin)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kamin »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">um somehow i highly dobut a 17 year old is racing. </TD></TR></TABLE>
i went to my first autocross at 17...
i went to my first autocross at 17...