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Here are just some pics of pulling the old, incorrect color code wire for IAB @ A17 and Knock @ D3, and replacing with PNK/BLU for IAB and RED/BLU for Knock.
Just like Momma used to do it...
I realize I could have gone with 20 gauge wire to fit the A and D connectors a little better, but the 18 gauge fit:
When I fired up the engine, no vacuum to pull the IAB plates open :-(
I did some quick troubleshooting - when I look for voltage at the IAB plug with IGN ON - no 12 volts. When I check between my YEL/BLK and body ground, I have 12V. So my problem must be w/ the PNK/BLU wire I attempted to run to A17.
I'm not 100% sure but I think there may be some mix-up between the EVAP pins and IAB pins between OBD1 & 2a. I used a 2a GSR engine harness on my Type-R swap. When I compared every single pin (ECU, Shock tower & Motor), I remember finding I had to use one pin from the IAB plug to make the OBD1 EVAP solenoid work.
Also compare
Trace the wiring digrams for both the 96 Integra and 94 Civic & OBD1 Integra for the IAB and EVAP & compare how they land at the shock tower, ECU & Engine. There may be subtle differences. Remember you have to make everything work how your OBD1 P72 ECU is expecting.
Here's a picture of a canister I think might work for you:
I'm not sure what car this is out of. The inlet from the tank is SMALLER than the outlet to the purge on this canister. This might be from a 96-00 Civic DX, or possibly from an Integra. Here's a thread where someone details changing their fuel filter on their 96-00 Civic DX, and you can clearly see the orange fresh air tube for the canister clipped to the fuel filter bracket as well as the charcoal canister with a single inlet/outlet on it (fourth image):
I suspect that's what this one is from. But this might work for you. In my images, PURGE is on the left, TANK on the right. The canister says "TENNEX" on it.
I'm not 100% sure but I think there may be some mix-up between the EVAP pins and IAB pins between OBD1 & 2a. I used a 2a GSR engine harness on my Type-R swap. When I compared every single pin (ECU, Shock tower & Motor), I remember finding I had to use one pin from the IAB plug to make the OBD1 EVAP solenoid work.
Also compare
Trace the wiring digrams for both the 96 Integra and 94 Civic & OBD1 Integra for the IAB and EVAP & compare how they land at the shock tower, ECU & Engine. There may be subtle differences. Remember you have to make everything work how your OBD1 P72 ECU is expecting.
Some suggest pulling the pin for EVAP and using for IAB. This is less than ideal as EVAP just powers up switched ground over a certain temp (as we saw in earlier posts). The switched ground for IAB is supposed to be turned off once engine RPM hits 5751 RPM for the OBD1 P72 ECU so you can use the short runners. I used A17 for IAB and left my EVAP alone. The EVAP purge solenoid does click when the engine is warmed up and IGN is ON, so that works as it should.
I will. I ran new wire for IAB since the shop that did my swap wired IAB incorrectly - see below:
Originally Posted by 94 Civic Si
This gets more interesting, as the IAB solenoid relies on switched ground to function for OBD1. For OBD2, it looks like a different story.
The two scans below are from '94 and then '96 FSMs.
My swap was hooked up with the (-) terminal of IAB connector going to the t-stat housing. What did the shop connect the (+) terminal to at my ECM? Can't wait to find out...
Originally Posted by 94 Civic Si
Here are just some pics of pulling the old, incorrect color code wire for IAB @ A17 and Knock @ D3, and replacing with PNK/BLU for IAB and RED/BLU for Knock.
Just like Momma used to do it...
I realize I could have gone with 20 gauge wire to fit the A and D connectors a little better, but the 18 gauge fit:
Last edited by 94 Civic Si; 12-12-2017 at 02:55 PM.
I don't know what's going on in here, but hope you get it figured out.
I did have continuity from the ECU to the IAB solenoid connector, but I did not have 12V. If I checked voltage from my YEL/BLK and ground, I had 12V.
It turns out when I re-wired the PNK/BLU for IAB, I did not get the connector pushed in the connector at the ECU far enough - wow!
I guess I never took a picture after I inserted the connector: https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-.../#post51183210 but it probably would have been better if I had gotten 20 gauge wire. The crimp was a little wide, so I smashed the crimp a little narrower and got it inserted.
Now I have 12v at the connector for IAB when IGN is on, but I still don't have the engine vacuum closing the butterfly valves on the intake when I start the engine. Disappointing...
Last edited by 94 Civic Si; 02-02-2018 at 08:49 AM.
To me it sounds like the 96-97 system could potentially be better than the OBD1 one. From the look of the 96-97 canister, it's been modified (from OBD1) to actually flow fumes through the diaphragm valve using actual manifold vacuum. This should be more efficient at evacuation than the crappy OBD1 port on the throttle body (which is NOT a good source of vacuum). Personally I would try the 96 canister hooked up just like your 96 manual shows and see if the OBD1 ECU operates everything properly without causing idle issues.
Then let us know if it helps with the problem of fumes when it's hot & running AC. lol
96-97 canister (round can, larger top port, capped lower port, large open bottom fresh-air port)
When I was poking around on this topic a little bit, I found this picture you posted:
https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-.../#post50169059
I did not remember seeing this under my car when I was working under there. I also see this line, called "Pipe, Canister Drain Joint" in the parts diagram for my vehicle. I also got a chance to look at the canisters I have - pics tomorrow. It will be difficult to get my can out with the ABS located over in that vicinity.
When I was poking around on this topic a little bit, I found this picture you posted:
https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-.../#post50169059
I did not remember seeing this under my car when I was working under there. I also see this line, called "Pipe, Canister Drain Joint" in the parts diagram for my vehicle. I also got a chance to look at the canisters I have - pics tomorrow. It will be difficult to get my can out with the ABS located over in that vicinity.
That stiff plastic piece is clipped into the subframe and/or body. Not only that but I think it runs between the body and the subframe so I don't even think you could remove it even if you were to unclip it.
There's a rubber hose that connects to it, and then also to the drain coming out the bottom of the canister (plastic elbow on the bottom). I remember when I swapped mine it it was tough to get the plastic elbow on the canister stuck into the rubber hose down below the firewall that connects to the piece shown in the picture above but after feeling around for 5 or 10 minutes I was able to do it despite not being able to see anything. It's completely blind down there.
Yes, I figure I will have to take a look from underneath before I am ready to pop out the charcoal canister that is in place. I am hoping the one you gave me is same size, b/c there is not much room around the ABS...
That stiff plastic piece is clipped into the subframe and/or body. Not only that but I think it runs between the body and the subframe so I don't even think you could remove it even if you were to unclip it.
There's a rubber hose that connects to it, and then also to the drain coming out the bottom of the canister (plastic elbow on the bottom). I remember when I swapped mine it it was tough to get the plastic elbow on the canister stuck into the rubber hose down below the firewall that connects to the piece shown in the picture above but after feeling around for 5 or 10 minutes I was able to do it despite not being able to see anything. It's completely blind down there.
I am pretty sure that piece should show up in this pic - but I do not see it. I think my can drain pipe ends right at the bottom of the firewall, which would make for a perfect path for vapors from the canister to waft up and then get sucked into the passenger compartment when the climate control is set for fresh air...
I have the under-car vent tube in place. It doesn't do much to prevent fumes from entering the cabin at a stop light.
Okay, good to know, but it has to be better then exiting just below the can. When I can get under mine I will check out the possibility of swapping my can out w/ a OBD2 can w/ the bigger purge lines.
Originally Posted by jdblock
Bad shots, cropped from a larger picture, shows the drain without the front subframe on. Hope it helps.
That helps a great deal - thank you! I think my can drain is disconnected from the lower piece that runs underneath the car. When I was under working on mine I was able to move the line around...
In the first picture you can see the charcoal can the @wxman94ej1 donated to my project. It looks like it is small enough to fit my EH3 firewall behind the ABS mechanicals (hopefully), but is also set up for OBD2 evap purge.
Second picture shows how tucked in my can is behind the ABS, below the intake and battery tray. I am going to wait until I am under the car doing the 500 mile oil change and I can investigate how the drain tube hooks up to the "Pipe, Canister Drain Joint" and disconnect (if applicable).
Third picture - I was helping some neighbors with the '93 EX - no ABS - and got a clean view of the the connections for the drain tube under the charcoal can.
You are correct - it is there.
I was under the Civic last night doing the 500 mile oil change and took a look.
I think the charcoal can pictured above will fit in my car and clear the ABS, that is, I think it is the same size as my stock can.
With that said, I sure wish I knew I had to deal with this when my rack, head, intake, shifter were all off the car.
Would have been much, much easier...
I decided it was a project for another day.
I really wanna know if this direct-vacuum purge EVAP system eliminates fumes when it's hot & using AC. I'm already getting them as it's hit 105* in Vegas this week.
If I was going to give this a try, I would need a lot of parts to make it work (USDM Intake manifold, 96-spec canister, OBD2 purge valve & larger hoses).
So I started gathering parts to do this EVAP upgrade on my 94cx/ITR. Found a US ITR manifold locally for crazy cheep which set the whole thing in motion. Also managed to find the same 96-97 charcoal canister you have. And after TONS of searching, I even found just the right EVAP solenoid. It has the right size nipples (in and out) to match the canister and the manifold (they all use 7.5mm fuel hose on an 8mm nipple). But the best part is that this Purge Solenoid still uses the same round connector I as my OBD1 solenoid. Label says Denso 136200-1320.
Unfortunately it may be a while before I can gather the parts to do a manifold upgrade. I wish I could figure a way to T the thing into the existing manifold. Summer is comming!!!
Honda part# 17300-S01-A31 from 96-97 Civic made in Canada I believe. This also appears to be interchangeable with the canister I posted previously (17300-S04-G31) found on 96-97 Civics, Del Sols and Integras.
I really wanna know if this direct-vacuum purge EVAP system eliminates fumes when it's hot & using AC. I'm already getting them as it's hit 105* in Vegas this week.
If I was going to give this a try, I would need a lot of parts to make it work (USDM Intake manifold, 96-spec canister, OBD2 purge valve & larger hoses).
Sorry to be so slow my friend, I have to focus on a different vehicle right now, going on a trip next week.
So I started gathering parts to do this EVAP upgrade on my 94cx/ITR. Found a US ITR manifold locally for crazy cheep which set the whole thing in motion. Also managed to find the same 96-97 charcoal canister you have. And after TONS of searching, I even found just the right EVAP solenoid. It has the right size nipples (in and out) to match the canister and the manifold (they all use 7.5mm fuel hose on an 8mm nipple). But the best part is that this Purge Solenoid still uses the same round connector I as my OBD1 solenoid. Label says Denso 136200-1320.
Unfortunately it may be a while before I can gather the parts to do a manifold upgrade. I wish I could figure a way to T the thing into the existing manifold. Summer is comming!!!
Honda part# 17300-S01-A31 from 96-97 Civic made in Canada I believe. This also appears to be interchangeable with the canister I posted previously (17300-S04-G31) found on 96-97 Civics, Del Sols and Integras.
Where did you find the charcoal can and evap solenoid? Do you know if the charcoal can is the same physical size as our little EG cans? If I knew mine would drop in I would go through the hassle of installing around the ABS and try to plug in the drain over the top of the crossmember...
That solenoid has a different layout than the one that came on my B18:
The solenoids appear to all be essentially the same. An input side, an output side, and a 2 pin plug. The reason they all look different is cause they are mounted in different locations in different vehicles, and use different size hoses. Example: the 97 ITR solenoid (firewall mounted) is different than the 97 GSR (manifold mounted 2 hose) is different than 97 LS (manifold mounted 1 hose 1 o-ring). These are also different than the 97 B16 that gets mounted on the fuel rail. Functionally all 1997 EVAP systems are same. The Solenoid I pictured is from the CL/Accord/Prelude. I verified it has 2 8mm nipples and I really like the round OBD1 style plug (I won't have to modify my harness). Because of the ITR manifold, which connects to the solenoid via a hose, I NEED one with two nipples.
As for the canister, I'm not 100% sure if it's the same size or has the same bracket as the 92-95 (it looks the same tho). In the 96-97 Civic manual it appears smaller than the G31 canister. In 96-97, Honda only used this small canister on certain 1.5L vehicles (but some have AC and ABS). I will compare it to my EG canisters (I have both Tennex and ToyoRoki versions) when it gets here tomorrow.
05-21-2017, 02:40 PM
Re: Refresh of 94 Civic Si w/ ABS after accident
