deviant1

Would old rear trailing arm bushings make knocking sounds at slow speeds over bumps and dips? Also, would you have to take off the entire rear arm to replace them with new OEM ones? or can it be done in your driveway? Would Honda replace this bushing on a lowered car and would it be covered by that service bulletin where it says they are known to fail?




Modified by deviant1 at 8:34 PM 2/16/2005

SOHC4life 96

Yes the could make noises. To take the trailing arm off, look at one of the rear disc converstion threads. Its the same concept. And there is a link in the FAQ thread about replacing bushings.

pdiggitydogg

Ya know, I never thought about it until now...but when I changed my ta's and upgraded to mugen bushings, the thud sound went away. Huh...guess it really is true about the notice.

Its easy to do actually, and no, you dont need a press...just a hammer and some patience. A large ring of the same diameter to act as a manual press does help, and is how I did the second bushing. Oh, you'll need some lube.

Do NOT get prothane or urethane bushings...get honda or mugen.

93civicsedan

iTrader: (1)

Yes, usually when you here knocking sounds coming from the rear the TA bushing could be bad. To replace them you have to take out the entire arm. The new one needs to be pressed in so youll need a press.

SOHC4life 96

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pdiggitydogg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Do NOT get prothane or urethane bushings...get honda or mugen.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Why is that? Wouldn't the upgrade to stiffer bushings make the suspension stiffer?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93civicsedan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> so youll need a press.</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, you don't. You can even cut the old ones out.

CooBlueDAB

hrm, this could be what I was hearing in my 2000 ex... it squeeks when I am going slow enough to hear it.. and over a bump, otherwise, mad civic road noise ownage covers it up...

I have done a carfax on the vehicle, and got it from a used dealership about 2 years ago... but I dont think they cover if it was replaced..

Is there a way to see if my car has had this service done?

pdiggitydogg

Non-oe style bushings to not allow in the proper amount of movement of the arm.

The oem bushing is only attached in two places, and allows a corrent amount of travel in the arm, left to right, up and down.
Plus, many of the style that require you to reuse the metal insert slid into the urethane can come way out of alignment, sliding around.

SOHC4life 96

I see, that makes sense. What about the other bushings, like the ones in the compensator arm and uper and lower control arms. Bad idea to use polyurethane bushings there too?

pdiggitydogg

Never really thought much about those, since Ive never replaced em.
But since theyre just rings anyway, I dont see why it would cause any issues...just squeaks if not lubed enough

jerseybrandon

You can remove these without taking the arm down. Use an airhammer if you have access to one, should take 15 mins per side.

deviant1

something interesting i read in another thread is this: if the car is lowered, you need to rotate the metal ribbon in the middle to compensate for the lower stance. At stock height, this ribbon lays pretty parallel with the ground. when lowered, it gets angled downward causing it to be loaded all the time, thus wearing out the bushings faster. Installing the new one with it rotated downward, it eliminated the preload on the bushing making it last long like if the car was stock height. hope that makes sense.

pdiggitydogg

it does, but you'll need to find the exact angle beforehand.

wilsel

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pdiggitydogg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Do NOT get prothane or urethane bushings...get honda or mugen.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have a complete ES poly kit and TA bushings, and have had zero problems. The bushings don't move around.

ironlung78

VERY GOOD WRITE UP DEVIANT1

I have the same exact problem and thought it was my LCA bushings, but after reading what you posted and seeing the TSB thats definitely the problem. And it only started to happened after i lowered it..
2 Questions though
1. Where is a good place to buy the mugen Trailing arm bushings?
2. Could you approximate how much you rotated the bushing to account for a lower car. I'm assuming it was counter clockwise?

pdiggitydogg

Buy the bushings from King Motorsports

I actually do not know of anyone who rotates the bushings for compensation, however, you would simply have to adjust them to the angle that you are lowered....different for each set of spings.
Get out a machinists level w/ protractor and set it on the arm. Whatever the angle is, rotate the bushings to readjust it back to 0/180*. (yes, counterclockwise would be correct)
But in all honesty, I dont think its necessary.

ironlung78

are they that much better than oem?
or even prothane?

currently i have megan LCA's with prothane bushings, comptech 22mm sway tie/combo, and NEX full coilovers (very stiff coils), and after all the money invested i still have the clunk so this should be the fix.

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by deviant1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">something interesting i read in another thread is this: if the car is lowered, you need to rotate the metal ribbon in the middle to compensate for the lower stance. At stock height, this ribbon lays pretty parallel with the ground. when lowered, it gets angled downward causing it to be loaded all the time, thus wearing out the bushings faster. Installing the new one with it rotated downward, it eliminated the preload on the bushing making it last long like if the car was stock height. hope that makes sense.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is called "clocking" the bushings. It can also be done on the rear inner UCA bushing (where UCA mounts to the chassis) if your using OEM bushing there.

You can measure the necissary amount of clocking with a "plumb bob" if you can get under the car with the rear suspension fully settled (car has to be level). Just set up the plumb bob at the center of the TA bushing, then mark the outter collar where the string rests. Compare this with the Factory mark, and that is how much you need to rotate the bushing. Seems difficult, but might be worth it (if your going to be replacing it).

Poly bushings work differently (they rotate instead of twist), so they don't need to be clocked. This is also why they squeek horribly...

The reason nobody recomends a Poly TA bushing is because polly can't act like a bearing on a sliding shaft (rubber does). Poly will rotate up & down, slide left & right, but it won't swivel properly (like a bearing does). This causes binding.

deviant1

if you clock the bushing, would that make it difficult to bolt it up to the chassis since it wont be level with the mating surface? let me try to illustrate what i mean.

stock height:

-------------- &lt;--this is the chassis (underside of car)
----- &lt;--this is the metal ribbon in the bushing that has the bolt holes to bolt it to the chassis.

clocked bushings:

-------------
\\\\ &lt;---of course it wont be that extreme but it wont lay flat with the underside of the car to bolt it up. when you put it up to bolt it on, do you have to bear claw it and twist it to lay flat to bolt it up? and then when the car is back on the ground, will the bushing rotate itself so the "ribbon" lays fairly parallel with the ground like stock and not be preloaded?

93civicsedan

iTrader: (1)

I installed mugen ta bushings last summer and didnt rotate it. It def made a big diff because my rear suspension no longer makes noise everytime I go over a bump.

ironlung78

thanks for the reply..

but do you think in my application binding could happen. i seriously think that with my current setup there will be minimal twist at that bushing. My car is pretty damn stiff right now. Nex coilovers, comptech 22mm sway with reinforcement tie bar, and upper tie bar. Lets put it this way i get the 3 wheel motion when pulling into a driveway on an incline.
I bought my 00 si used last year with 50k on it, and this problem only started to happen when i lowered it. So i'm thinking they were starting to go when i bought it and never noticed because i lowered it 2 weeks later. Since then i have added the sway bar on the third hole, and replaced the lower control arm bushings with prothane, and i still have the clunking noise occasionally when slowly turning on an incline.
I'm starting to think that Prothane is going to be what i need, so i don't have to clock it, and the pin will be able to move side to side freely.
Thanks

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by deviant1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you clock the bushing, would that make it difficult to bolt it up to the chassis since it wont be level with the mating surface? let me try to illustrate what i mean.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Short answer: No!

Long answer:
Your illustration is correct, but the angle difference will only be a few degrees. Your just goint to be holding the TA at a slightly different angle while you bolt it up (brakes will be higher & the TA snoot lower). Thats all, no biggie.

Then since your supposed to zero out all your bushings anyways, all the suspension bolts should already be loose. This will allow all the arms to swing into place without any problems. Then load the suspension with a jack, and torque everything to spec.

deviant1

Good info in this thread! cheers

deviant1

Is there a way to make marks on the bolts or anywhere before taking off the stock bushings and the trailing arm so I dont need to get an alignment after installing new ones? Is clocking the bushings really worth the hassle? It seems no one does this or even heard of it, except for you suspension gurus. Also, for those who did not clock your bushings, how long have you been riding on the new bushings and how have they held up?

About loading the suspension and tightening bolts, you would install all bolts but keep them loose and then jack up on side of the suspension at a time and then torque to spec? maybe leave the rear on ramps? explain this a little more please. It would be rather impossible to put the car on the ground and then torque the bolts.

I read a write up someone did on bushings located here - http://www.performanceforum.co....html
Would I need to measure the stock bushing like mentioed in this article to buy the right sized new one? or can I use the part number located in the service bulletin in my first post on this thread? the failed part number is the same as the part number above it.

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by deviant1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is there a way to make marks on the bolts or anywhere before taking off the stock bushings and the trailing arm so I dont need to get an alignment after installing new ones? Is clocking the bushings really worth the hassle? It seems no one does this or even heard of it, except for you suspension gurus. Also, for those who did not clock your bushings, how long have you been riding on the new bushings and how have they held up?</TD></TR></TABLE>

The only one that you can mark is the inner bolt of the rear compensator arm. This bolt is where toe is adjusted. The thing is that bolt is already marked on the chassis, so putting back where it came from is easy, but that doesn't mean your parts will be placed perfectly. Only a trained tech can determine that.

And if you are replacing the TA bushing, your better off having it clocked...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by deviant1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
About loading the suspension and tightening bolts, you would install all bolts but keep them loose and then jack up on side of the suspension at a time and then torque to spec? maybe leave the rear on ramps? explain this a little more please. It would be rather impossible to put the car on the ground and then torque the bolts.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

With the car on jack stands, I jack up the LCA until the car just barley lifts off the jack (think 1/8"). Now the suspension is at ride height, and you can tighten down any bolts that go through the center of your bushings. In the rear this isn't neccisarry for the TA bushing, and UCA inner bushing because the bolts arn't thourgh the center. The reason for doing this is because your bushings need to be at rest when your car is still on the ground. This will help your suspension bushings last much longer.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by deviant1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I read a write up someone did on bushings located here - http://www.performanceforum.co....html
Would I need to measure the stock bushing like mentioed in this article to buy the right sized new one? or can I use the part number located in the service bulletin in my first post on this thread? the failed part number is the same as the part number above it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That is a great writeup you have. I thank you for the good reading. I would deffinently follow those instructions, and I also like the way he shows how to measure the required clocking of the TA bushing. Measure the size of bushing to save you any trouble...

jspresso

i would geet energy suspension bushing since there a quality product and no that expensive