rear disc swap .. stopping power increase .. how much?
#1
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: State College, Pa, U.S.
Posts: 1,716
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
rear disc swap .. stopping power increase .. how much?
i would eventually like to do the rear disc conversion to my 97 couope .. but i was wondering what the increase in stopping power is like. is it noticable?
#2
Junior Member
I'm not sure how close my experience will be to yours. But I did a rear disc swap in my 97 EJ8, and I also went to brand new sport rotors, sport pads, DOT4 fluid, a 4040 prop valve, and stainless steel brake lines all at the same time. SO I'm sure the increase I felt had something to do with that as well.
At first, when you drive the car with the new brakes, it won't feel better at all. Mine actually felt worse. But after the pads had bedded on the rotors, and I had gotten used to everything, I noticed I was out braking everyone on the road. When I got into heavy braking, really heating things up, it was a world of difference. On the old drum brakes I came into a corner too quickly, late braked, and completely fried all my fluid. My front rotors were smoking and the car would barely stop. Now I can smash my brakes all day and theres no loss of stopping power.
Not to mention the rear discs look so much better than drums.
At first, when you drive the car with the new brakes, it won't feel better at all. Mine actually felt worse. But after the pads had bedded on the rotors, and I had gotten used to everything, I noticed I was out braking everyone on the road. When I got into heavy braking, really heating things up, it was a world of difference. On the old drum brakes I came into a corner too quickly, late braked, and completely fried all my fluid. My front rotors were smoking and the car would barely stop. Now I can smash my brakes all day and theres no loss of stopping power.
Not to mention the rear discs look so much better than drums.
#3
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: State College, Pa, U.S.
Posts: 1,716
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (OMGWTFBBQ!)
yea thats what i'm thinking .. i made my car look nice .. i just turbod it so its fast now .. now i'd like to upgrade to some rear discs
how much did it end up costing you to do the swap? i'm not really familiar at all with the conversion
how much did it end up costing you to do the swap? i'm not really familiar at all with the conversion
#4
Junior Member
Re: (pjr710)
I paid $120 for Integra RS rear trailing arms with the brakes etc.
$125 for EBC Ultimax slotted front rotors
$60 for the EBC Greenstuff front pads
$30 for Duralast rear rotors from autozone
$20 for Duralast rear pads from autozone
$115 for the stainless steel brake lines from Goodridge
Probably about $30 for the DOT4 fluid
So all in all it was right around $500, and it took us 18 damn hours to do the swap, 4 hours were spent trying to get the old rear rotors off.
You can do it alot cheaper if you use OEM rotors and pads, but I autocross so I like to have good stopping power.
$125 for EBC Ultimax slotted front rotors
$60 for the EBC Greenstuff front pads
$30 for Duralast rear rotors from autozone
$20 for Duralast rear pads from autozone
$115 for the stainless steel brake lines from Goodridge
Probably about $30 for the DOT4 fluid
So all in all it was right around $500, and it took us 18 damn hours to do the swap, 4 hours were spent trying to get the old rear rotors off.
You can do it alot cheaper if you use OEM rotors and pads, but I autocross so I like to have good stopping power.
#5
I forgot more about hondas then you will ever know....
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: hop,skip, and a jump from the city,, new friggin york, USA
Posts: 5,310
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Re: rear disc swap .. stopping power increase .. how much? (pjr710)
you do not increase stopping power. properly adjusted drums have as much power as rear disc. you will gain heat dissipation as well as ease of replacement. oh, and bling, if you ar einto that sort of thing....
#7
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Posts: 26,519
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Re: rear disc swap .. stopping power increase .. how much? (pjr710)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pjr710 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">drums = rotors?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Rotors = discs
Drums = Drums (or non-rotors)
Rotors = discs
Drums = Drums (or non-rotors)
Trending Topics
#8
HT White Ops
Re: rear disc swap .. stopping power increase .. how much? (Rodney)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rodney »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you do not increase stopping power. properly adjusted drums have as much power as rear disc... </TD></TR></TABLE>
Exactly! Thank you! You saved me some keyboarding...
Rear brakes don't do jack when you're moving - except make you spin out in corners!!!
This applies to ALL vehicles - automobiles, bicycles, forklifts, motorcycles, yada, yada, yada...
IMHO, the only thing rear brakes are good for is parking - keeping you in the staging lights - prevent rolling at stoplights - and hill holding!
Exactly! Thank you! You saved me some keyboarding...
Rear brakes don't do jack when you're moving - except make you spin out in corners!!!
This applies to ALL vehicles - automobiles, bicycles, forklifts, motorcycles, yada, yada, yada...
IMHO, the only thing rear brakes are good for is parking - keeping you in the staging lights - prevent rolling at stoplights - and hill holding!
#10
HT White Ops
Re: (OMGWTFBBQ!)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by OMGWTFBBQ! »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Disconnect your rear brakes and see what happens to your stopping power. </TD></TR></TABLE>
LoL! Back on you...
Use your "emergency brakes" only and see what happens to your stopping power!
LoL! Back on you...
Use your "emergency brakes" only and see what happens to your stopping power!
#11
Junior Member
My emergency brake will stop my car just fine, but of course it takes longer than hitting the brakes, as you're only using 20% of your available braking force. Saying rear brakes are useless is totally idiotic. In fact, most of the things I see you post on HT are pretty idiotic, I'm starting to wonder if you give people wrong advice on purpose.
Modified by OMGWTFBBQ! at 4:05 PM 7/9/2008
Modified by OMGWTFBBQ! at 4:05 PM 7/9/2008
#12
HT White Ops
Re: (OMGWTFBBQ!)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by OMGWTFBBQ! »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Saying rear brakes are useless is totally idiotic. In fact, most of the things I see you post on HT are pretty idiotic, I'm starting to wonder if you give people wrong advice on purpose.</TD></TR></TABLE>
LoL!
You're the one that suggested disconnecting your rear brakes...
LoL!
You're the one that suggested disconnecting your rear brakes...
#14
HT White Ops
Re: (OMGWTFBBQ!)
Um...
Reread the thread!
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BlackDeuceCoupe »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Rear brakes don't do jack when you're moving...</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by OMGWTFBBQ! »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My [rear brakes] will stop my car just fine, but of course it takes longer... as you're only using 20% of your available braking force.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You're arguing over percentages, I suppose...
I said, rear brakes "don't do jack"...
You said, rear brakes provide "20% of your available braking force"...
Argue all you want but...
Using YOUR figure, I would *suggest* "20%" isn't jack - that's all!
In your humble estimation, will converting to discs give you more than 20%? If so, how much more?
And, do you REALLY want more than 20% braking in the rear?
Reread the thread!
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BlackDeuceCoupe »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Rear brakes don't do jack when you're moving...</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by OMGWTFBBQ! »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My [rear brakes] will stop my car just fine, but of course it takes longer... as you're only using 20% of your available braking force.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You're arguing over percentages, I suppose...
I said, rear brakes "don't do jack"...
You said, rear brakes provide "20% of your available braking force"...
Argue all you want but...
Using YOUR figure, I would *suggest* "20%" isn't jack - that's all!
In your humble estimation, will converting to discs give you more than 20%? If so, how much more?
And, do you REALLY want more than 20% braking in the rear?
#15
Former Moderator
Re: (BlackDeuceCoupe)
Increasing the size of front brakes/calipers and adding some size to the brake master cylinder does much, much more to improve stopping distances (as in decrease them) than rear disc swaps.
Rear discs are great for keeping the rear wheels from locking up as easily in repeated stopping, such as road racing, but honestly for the street a rear disc swap alone won't be noticable.
Perfect example was my wife's 1992 Si hatchback and my friend's 1992 DX hatchback. they both had same sized front brakes from the factory, but the Si had rear discs, the DX had rear drums.
Stock vs. stock they stopped very much the same in street applications. After upgrading the fronts on the DX and adding the 15/16ths master cylinder it stopped lightyears better than the Si with it's smallish fronts and rear discs. It's less effort to convert fronts (spindle swap) and the master cylinder can be viewed as a maintenance item anyways since most of them are leaking by now.
If you already have upgraded the fronts to larger size, and you also have the larger m/c well then I won't knock rear discs. I like discs because they're much easier to change linings in (pads vs. drums) and honestly they don't look like a cheap base model vehicle. It's funny to have $1,500.00 wheels and stock rear drums, isn't it?
As far as the BDC vs OMGBBQ thing goes - I think you guys might be arguing over lingo. I think BDC's point is that rear brakes add such little stopping power to our cars that stressing over upgrading them alone is pointless. Honestly BDC might rub some people the wrong way, but I've never seen him post any incorrect info, seriously.
Rear discs are great for keeping the rear wheels from locking up as easily in repeated stopping, such as road racing, but honestly for the street a rear disc swap alone won't be noticable.
Perfect example was my wife's 1992 Si hatchback and my friend's 1992 DX hatchback. they both had same sized front brakes from the factory, but the Si had rear discs, the DX had rear drums.
Stock vs. stock they stopped very much the same in street applications. After upgrading the fronts on the DX and adding the 15/16ths master cylinder it stopped lightyears better than the Si with it's smallish fronts and rear discs. It's less effort to convert fronts (spindle swap) and the master cylinder can be viewed as a maintenance item anyways since most of them are leaking by now.
If you already have upgraded the fronts to larger size, and you also have the larger m/c well then I won't knock rear discs. I like discs because they're much easier to change linings in (pads vs. drums) and honestly they don't look like a cheap base model vehicle. It's funny to have $1,500.00 wheels and stock rear drums, isn't it?
As far as the BDC vs OMGBBQ thing goes - I think you guys might be arguing over lingo. I think BDC's point is that rear brakes add such little stopping power to our cars that stressing over upgrading them alone is pointless. Honestly BDC might rub some people the wrong way, but I've never seen him post any incorrect info, seriously.
#16
Former Moderator
Re: (B18C5-EH2)
BTW:
Is the car in question a DX or EX?
I also meant to say the best upgrade you can do for your stock brakes if nothing else is get good pads and fluid - this is THE single best/easiest upgrade without tearing the entire braking system apart.
Is the car in question a DX or EX?
I also meant to say the best upgrade you can do for your stock brakes if nothing else is get good pads and fluid - this is THE single best/easiest upgrade without tearing the entire braking system apart.
#17
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: State College, Pa, U.S.
Posts: 1,716
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (B18C5-EH2)
i have an ex .. i was figuring like adding rear discs would add a lot more stopping power to my car .. almost like double.
but now after hearin all this .. i might just try and save up for some bigger front brakes.
the only thing i would do a rear disc swap now is for looks
but now after hearin all this .. i might just try and save up for some bigger front brakes.
the only thing i would do a rear disc swap now is for looks
#18
Former Moderator
Re: (pjr710)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pjr710 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i have an ex .. i was figuring like adding rear discs would add a lot more stopping power to my car .. almost like double.
but now after hearin all this .. i might just try and save up for some bigger front brakes.
the only thing i would do a rear disc swap now is for looks</TD></TR></TABLE>
Smart move.
There are a lot of options for upgrading the 10.4'' front brakes on your car. One popular upgrade is adding 11'' rotors (usually 93-96 Prelude VTEC 4x114.3 rotors redrilled to 4x100) along with Accord wagon or ITR brake calipers. There is a member named BrakeExpert who sells adapter kits, etc. I believe.
Trust me from multiple first-hand experiences - upgrading the front brake rotors/calipers/pads will give you a much better improvement than simply adding rear discs - that's a promise.
but now after hearin all this .. i might just try and save up for some bigger front brakes.
the only thing i would do a rear disc swap now is for looks</TD></TR></TABLE>
Smart move.
There are a lot of options for upgrading the 10.4'' front brakes on your car. One popular upgrade is adding 11'' rotors (usually 93-96 Prelude VTEC 4x114.3 rotors redrilled to 4x100) along with Accord wagon or ITR brake calipers. There is a member named BrakeExpert who sells adapter kits, etc. I believe.
Trust me from multiple first-hand experiences - upgrading the front brake rotors/calipers/pads will give you a much better improvement than simply adding rear discs - that's a promise.
#19
HT White Ops
Re: (pjr710)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I like discs because they're much easier to change linings in (pads vs. drums) and honestly they don't look like a cheap base model vehicle. It's funny to have $1,500.00 wheels and stock rear drums, isn't it?</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pjr710 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the only thing i would do a rear disc swap now is for looks</TD></TR></TABLE>
Bingo!
pjr710 gets it!
BTW, thanks Tom!
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pjr710 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the only thing i would do a rear disc swap now is for looks</TD></TR></TABLE>
Bingo!
pjr710 gets it!
BTW, thanks Tom!
#20
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Effingham, IL, USA
Posts: 571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (B18C5-EH2)
is there any bigger rotors for an 94 ex that you dont have to redrill or buy adapters for??? i wouldnt mind trying out bigger rotors and maybe some bigger oem calipers. but im not looking for a big brake kit or any **** like that just bigger oem brakes
#21
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: kona, hawaii, usa
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: rear disc swap .. stopping power increase .. how much? (pjr710)
i have a 96 dx hatch.
there is a really fun 2.5 mile downhill canyon near my house. with the brakes stock in good shape hauling *** i could not get halway down that hill without massive fade.
i put axxis metal masters, s.s lines, ate blue, and new rotors on the front it would make it to the last little bit of the hill and faded by 30& or something. stinking hot.
i added rear disks with axxis metal masters and s.s lines and the brakes were pretty damned good- they would be hot at the bottom of the hill and a little faded but still good. the down side is on down hill corners braking into corners gets some oversteer.
I added the si master cylinder, ex disks and the correct s.s. lines to the front with hawk hp+ and now i have more brake than tire and 0 fade. the caqr makes it to the bottom of my neighborhood canyon hot but happy. the car went from so so brakes to fing killer brakes. the rear bias problem is gone- it is still a 2250lb front driver with a masive front wieght bias so care needs to be taken braking late downhill in the wet, but i like having brakes back there
with a full interior and using the car loaded with camping gear driving on secondary raods as the rear disks add stopping power, modulation, and fade resistance.
IMHO this rear disks are only a cosmetic mod is total bullshit myth peculiar to honda-tech, unless you auto-x in a 1800 lb car. you can tune out the disk rear bias issue with a good set-up up front and a matched pad choice in the rear.
Modified by mini-e at 4:59 PM 7/9/2008
there is a really fun 2.5 mile downhill canyon near my house. with the brakes stock in good shape hauling *** i could not get halway down that hill without massive fade.
i put axxis metal masters, s.s lines, ate blue, and new rotors on the front it would make it to the last little bit of the hill and faded by 30& or something. stinking hot.
i added rear disks with axxis metal masters and s.s lines and the brakes were pretty damned good- they would be hot at the bottom of the hill and a little faded but still good. the down side is on down hill corners braking into corners gets some oversteer.
I added the si master cylinder, ex disks and the correct s.s. lines to the front with hawk hp+ and now i have more brake than tire and 0 fade. the caqr makes it to the bottom of my neighborhood canyon hot but happy. the car went from so so brakes to fing killer brakes. the rear bias problem is gone- it is still a 2250lb front driver with a masive front wieght bias so care needs to be taken braking late downhill in the wet, but i like having brakes back there
with a full interior and using the car loaded with camping gear driving on secondary raods as the rear disks add stopping power, modulation, and fade resistance.
IMHO this rear disks are only a cosmetic mod is total bullshit myth peculiar to honda-tech, unless you auto-x in a 1800 lb car. you can tune out the disk rear bias issue with a good set-up up front and a matched pad choice in the rear.
Modified by mini-e at 4:59 PM 7/9/2008
#23
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: kona, hawaii, usa
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (OMGWTFBBQ!)
it is generally a no no on the street, but when it happens, your car should be your friend. some one could add rear disks and mess up the bias any one of a bunch of different ways and get bit. we dont want that!!!!
#24
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: State College, Pa, U.S.
Posts: 1,716
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (BlackDeuceCoupe)
i would be interetsted in getin some bigger rotors .. but i dont wanna spend 3k for a brembo kit .. are there any bigger rotors that dont need to be redrilled?
and about braking into a corner .. i tried that once going 80mph ... didnt end up too cool
and about braking into a corner .. i tried that once going 80mph ... didnt end up too cool
#25
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: kona, hawaii, usa
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (pjr710)
get good pads and good fluid. if you do not have good tires get those too. your car will stop so much damn better. if you have upgraded the oem $ stuff already and have good tires and need more brake search the autox racing forum here. there are lots of bolt on aftermaqrket $$$ options $$$.