Honda Civic / Del Sol (1992 - 2000) EG/EH/EJ/EK/EM1 Discussion

Re-ringing JDM D15B

 
Old 09-20-2004, 08:58 AM
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Default Re-ringing JDM D15B

Can anyone tell me what rings I would use.

I am looking to re-ring my JDM D15B Vtec Motor, just to get me by until my built one. I am looking to do it as quickly and simply as possible. As cheap as possible too.

I am guessing I would need to redo the headgasket at the same time as well. Would all of the d16z6 stuff work as far as the rings and gaskets?

Also, could I just re-use the rod bearings as well?

Let me know what my options are as I am already working on a built motor but its gonna be a good 6 months and I need this motor to survive in the meantime. A bad pcv cooked my rings and I have insane amounts of blowby and less than desireable compression.


Modified by fookle at 11:11 AM 9/20/2004
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Old 09-20-2004, 09:11 AM
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Default Re: Re-ringing JDM D15B (fookle)

what you need are stock sized (if your motor has never been bored out) ductile IRON rings which you can get from any machine shop. You'll need that type of ring because they are softer than a moly ring and will "seat" better if you're not going to do the proper job of honeing the cylinders too. Re ringing an engine is only a temporary bandaid for any engine if you don't re hone the cylinders at minimum. In your case it sounds like a temporary bandaid is all you need and should get you through 6 months before it starts doing the same thing your engine's doing now.

You will need a new head gasket and you can probably reuse the old rod bearings just remember that this is a REAL bandaid approach to that engine. Long term durability and longevity will be seriously compromised doing it this way but like you asked, it's all you need for now.
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Old 09-20-2004, 09:16 AM
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Default Re: Re-ringing JDM D15B (00Red_SiR)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00Red_SiR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what you need are stock sized (if your motor has never been bored out) ductile IRON rings which you can get from any machine shop. You'll need that type of ring because they are softer than a moly ring and will "seat" better if you're not going to do the proper job of honeing the cylinders too. Re ringing an engine is only a temporary bandaid for any engine if you don't re hone the cylinders at minimum. In your case it sounds like a temporary bandaid is all you need and should get you through 6 months before it starts doing the same thing your engine's doing now.

You will need a new head gasket and you can probably reuse the old rod bearings just remember that this is a REAL bandaid approach to that engine. Long term durability and longevity will be seriously compromised doing it this way but like you asked, it's all you need for now.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So do you know if the z6 rings will work? I believe the bore is the same. And yes this engine is bone stock, it was one of those 35K mile motor pulls from a place like HMO kinda. And if this motor lasted another 6-8 months I would be fine with that. I have already picked up a new d16 block for a buildup. And I was just gonna go cheap on the rings, like Napa style, is that a bad idea for what I am trying to get outta the car?
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Old 09-20-2004, 09:29 AM
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Default Re: Re-ringing JDM D15B (fookle)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fookle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So do you know if the z6 rings will work? I believe the bore is the same. And yes this engine is bone stock, it was one of those 35K mile motor pulls from a place like HMO kinda. And if this motor lasted another 6-8 months I would be fine with that. I have already picked up a new d16 block for a buildup. And I was just gonna go cheap on the rings, like Napa style, is that a bad idea for what I am trying to get outta the car?</TD></TR></TABLE>

no the Z6 rings are for the larger 1.6L bore (1690cc) vs your 1.5L (1493cc), so they aren't compatible, neither is the headgasket. Some of the other external engine gaskets are probably ok though.

For your new engine build up DO NOT USE CHEAP ANYTHING, especially rings if you want that motor to last. Go to Honda and get some OEM rings as they are really good. Just make sure that your new block gets a bore honeing AT MINIMUM before you put it all together with the new rings etc if you want it to last.
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Old 09-20-2004, 09:33 AM
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Default Re: Re-ringing JDM D15B (fookle)

i dont no if the d16z6 rings will work becuz the bore and stroke are different on that engine.. just like when u do a mini me. u have to use the blocks head gasket not the heads... so do a lil more searching and asking but it doesnt sound like it will work
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Old 09-20-2004, 09:37 AM
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Default Re: Re-ringing JDM D15B (pane93civhb)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pane93civhb &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i dont no if the d16z6 rings will work becuz the bore and stroke are different on that engine.. just like when u do a mini me. u have to use the blocks head gasket not the heads... so do a lil more searching and asking but it doesnt sound like it will work </TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00red_SiR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">no the Z6 rings are for the larger 1.6L bore (1690cc) vs your 1.5L (1493cc), so they aren't compatible, neither is the headgasket. Some of the other external engine gaskets are probably ok though.

For your new engine build up DO NOT USE CHEAP ANYTHING, especially rings if you want that motor to last. Go to Honda and get some OEM rings as they are really good. Just make sure that your new block gets a bore honeing AT MINIMUM before you put it all together with the new rings etc if you want it to last.</TD></TR></TABLE>

this is the JDM D15B. The head is the exact same as the d16z6, only the cam is better.

Both have a 75mm bore. Also I believe the JDM D15B is 1590cc, not 1493.

So if both have a 75mm bore, why would the rings not work? And as stated before, I dont care if the motor lasts, as long as it runs fair for the next 6-8 months. As for the headgasket not working, I think you're wrong, I've been told by several people that the jdm d15b vtec head = z6 head, but with a different cam.

Also, about going cheap, keep in mind that if this is too expensive for me to do, I will be driving the car exactly as it sits for the next 6 months. Laid off = built motor waits until spring, so you can understand my need to go cheap.
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Old 09-20-2004, 09:47 AM
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Default Re: Re-ringing JDM D15B (fookle)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fookle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

this is the JDM D15B. The head is the exact same as the d16z6, only the cam is better.

Both have a 75mm bore. Also I believe the JDM D15B is 1590cc, not 1493.

So if both have a 75mm bore, why would the rings not work? And as stated before, I dont care if the motor lasts, as long as it runs fair for the next 6-8 months. As for the headgasket not working, I think you're wrong, I've been told by several people that the jdm d15b vtec head = z6 head, but with a different cam.

Also, about going cheap, keep in mind that if this is too expensive for me to do, I will be driving the car exactly as it sits for the next 6 months. Laid off = built motor waits until spring, so you can understand my need to go cheap. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Put simply, the 1.6L IS a larger bore than your 1.5L no matter where your engine came from. The bores are NOT the same size I promise you. The heads may be the same but it's the BLOCK (and it's bore size) that dictate the proper headgasket to use, not the head.

Going cheap is one thing but spend the few bucks more and get some decent Honda rings especially if your laid off. Why spend twice the money to build a motor twice over a few years span if you're tight on cash? Spend a couple extra bucks literally now and save in the long run.

EDIT: The head gasket can be used between the 2 engines ONLY if the D15 is the same as the USDM VX model engine (D15Z1 vtec engine)
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Old 09-20-2004, 09:55 AM
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Default Re: Re-ringing JDM D15B (00Red_SiR)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00Red_SiR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Put simply, the 1.6L IS a larger bore than your 1.5L no matter where your engine came from. The bores are NOT the same size I promise you. The heads may be the same but it's the BLOCK (and it's bore size) that dictate the proper headgasket to use, not the head.

Going cheap is one thing but spend the few bucks more and get some decent Honda rings especially if your laid off. Why spend twice the money to build a motor twice over a few years span if you're tight on cash? Spend a couple extra bucks literally now and save in the long run. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Ok but where are you getting a few years? 6 months, .5 years, 1/4 of two years... I could give a monkeys left nut if the motor lasts any longer than that. After that time I will be doing a different block fully built. And from what I have read on this motor over the past year, the bore is the same, but the stroke is shorter. If anyone could provide some full specs on this contraption so that we had more information on it, that'd be great.
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Old 09-20-2004, 10:04 AM
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Default Re: Re-ringing JDM D15B (fookle)

MY BAD: both bores are 75mm and each engine uses a slighlty different stroke....just looked it up, so yes you can use the same rings. As long as the head on your D15 is a Vtec head, you can also use the head gasket from the D16Z6 (Vtec). My apologies, I hope this helps
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Old 09-20-2004, 10:07 AM
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Default Re: Re-ringing JDM D15B (00Red_SiR)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00Red_SiR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">MY BAD: both bores are 75mm and each engine uses a slighlty different stroke....just looked it up, so yes you can use the same rings. As long as the head on your D15 is a Vtec head, you can also use the head gasket from the D16Z6 (Vtec). My apologies, I hope this helps </TD></TR></TABLE>

no problem, I just wanted to make sure that your info was good, that was the reason for the persistence. I was sure that you had to be mistaken, but then again it is hard to find good info on the net, people misprint stuff all the time.

I will price OEM rings and headgasket, and probably rod bearings too. I will also price them at my local Baxters with my parts discount, and decide what I wanna do from there. I am also gonna need to price a cylinder honing tool.

What else am I gonna need, other than fluids. Any additional gaskets or anything?

oh, head bolts?
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Old 09-20-2004, 10:49 AM
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Default Re: Re-ringing JDM D15B (fookle)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fookle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

no problem, I just wanted to make sure that your info was good, that was the reason for the persistence. I was sure that you had to be mistaken, but then again it is hard to find good info on the net, people misprint stuff all the time.

I will price OEM rings and headgasket, and probably rod bearings too. I will also price them at my local Baxters with my parts discount, and decide what I wanna do from there. I am also gonna need to price a cylinder honing tool.

What else am I gonna need, other than fluids. Any additional gaskets or anything?

oh, head bolts?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well this isn't very encouraging.

Majestic (hondaautomotiveparts.com)
Rings - Lists 25.07 but looks like per piston Total - $100.28
Head Gasket - $43.05
Rod Bearings - $8.56 per rod Total - $34.24
This one lists 7 different rod bearings, not sure which to get, they list them as letters A-G

Local Honda Dealer
Rings - $30.33 per piston Total $121.32
Head Gasket - Only sold as Head Set $210.84 HA!
Rod Bearings - $28.24 per rod Total - $112.96 HA!
Head Bolts - $102.40 (at that point might as well go ARP)

Baxters Auto Parts
Rings - $49.38
Head Gasket - about $40 (varies on where they get it, Fel Pro brand)
Head Bolts - ARP Studs $114.99
Rod Bearings - $24.73

So basically, the best I could do would be the Baxter rings and OEM Headgasket, re-using the head bolts, and I am almost thinking I would be better off with the bearings that are in it over the Baxter ones.
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Old 09-20-2004, 11:04 AM
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Default Re: Re-ringing JDM D15B (fookle)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fookle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
So basically, the best I could do would be the Baxter rings and OEM Headgasket, re-using the head bolts, and I am almost thinking I would be better off with the bearings that are in it over the Baxter ones.</TD></TR></TABLE>

If the rings are made by a good brand company you should be ok. Certainly felpro makes good quality gaskets. Re-using the headbolts once, on your application should be fine too. Who makes the Baxter bearings? if they're Clevite 77's they'd be fine for sure.
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Old 09-20-2004, 11:06 AM
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Default Re: Re-ringing JDM D15B (00Red_SiR)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00Red_SiR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If the rings are made by a good brand company you should be ok. Certainly felpro makes good quality gaskets. Re-using the headbolts once, on your application should be fine too. Who makes the Baxter bearings? if they're Clevite 77's they'd be fine for sure.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I will check into the brands on the two parts.

With that it would cost me about $115-120, I could do that.
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Old 09-22-2004, 12:11 PM
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Default Re: Re-ringing JDM D15B (fookle)

I just got a rebuild kit for a d15b2. Will that work for the d15b?
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Old 09-22-2004, 04:48 PM
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Default Re: Re-ringing JDM D15B (IronOutlawz)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IronOutlawz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I just got a rebuild kit for a d15b2. Will that work for the d15b?</TD></TR></TABLE>

from what I can tell, you can't use the D15B2 kit on the D15 because the B2 is a pre-92 engine and the D15 is 92 and up. (I looked it up in a book and the part numbers for the gaskets were all different.)
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Old 09-22-2004, 05:03 PM
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Default Re: Re-ringing JDM D15B (00Red_SiR)

You will need rings for a '92-'95 DX for your D15B. The compression rings are thinner than the Z6. I've been using Sealed Power rings in a boosted D15B for 10,000 miles with no issues. Even the Sealed Power rings were over $100. You will also want the MLS head gasket from the D16Y8 for your D15b.
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Old 09-22-2004, 05:09 PM
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Default Re: Re-ringing JDM D15B (00Red_SiR)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00Red_SiR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

If the rings are made by a good brand company you should be ok. Certainly felpro makes good quality gaskets. Re-using the headbolts once, on your application should be fine too. Who makes the Baxter bearings? if they're Clevite 77's they'd be fine for sure.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hell No. I built two motors and tried to use the Clevite bearings. Remember the crank is Nitrided, so if you don't plan on grinding it, the only proper way to assemble it is to use OEM bearings of the proper color code. Each journal will have a unique bearing size requirement.
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Old 09-22-2004, 08:13 PM
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Default Re: Re-ringing JDM D15B (Jim Truett)

good info here on this thread... and yeah, the d15b is 1593cc's...

in my opinion, i wouldn't spend that much in OEM parts unless i planned to stick to the motor for a while. u state that u want it to last just until your d16 is built and ready to drop in.

motor rebuilds are extensive and IMO you dont want cheap parts in there.

good luck
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Old 09-23-2004, 06:04 AM
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Default Re: Re-ringing JDM D15B (jdmsiR20)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jdmsiR20 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">good info here on this thread... and yeah, the d15b is 1593cc's...

</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's 1493cc.
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Old 09-23-2004, 10:28 AM
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Default Re: Re-ringing JDM D15B (Jim Truett)

actually i will care to venture that not only was i wrong, but above is wrong too.

by changing the stroke of the jdm d15b, you arrive at 1543cc's.... rounded down it becomes the 1.5liter...

d16z6 = 1593cc's..... rounded up to 1.6
d15b = 1543cc's.... rounded down to 1.5

its just something that i picked up from alot of different forums.....

all the other d15's from that year...

d15b7 = 1493cc's
d15b8 = 1493cc's...


i gotta go try and find the credible source, but kinda trust me on this one folks...

all that "d16z6 vs. d15b" crap has nothing on the "100cc's difference... more like 50cc's....
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Old 09-23-2004, 07:26 PM
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Default Re: Re-ringing JDM D15B (jdmsiR20)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jdmsiR20 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
by changing the stroke of the jdm d15b, you arrive at 1543cc's.... rounded down it becomes the 1.5liter...

d16z6 = 1593cc's..... rounded up to 1.6
d15b = 1543cc's.... rounded down to 1.5

its just something that i picked up from alot of different forums.....

all the other d15's from that year...

d15b7 = 1493cc's
d15b8 = 1493cc's...


</TD></TR></TABLE>

Find that credible source and post it here. Remember at least 60% of the info floating around on forums is BS. Even h-t.

You forgot the D15Z1. It's 1493cc. Most people point to the source of the block for the D15Z1 and D15B as the same casting. Therefore the D15B is simply a 1493cc engine with larger rods and correspondingly larger connecting rod journals (48mm, same as D16Z6). The deck height is shorter on my D15B, matching the rest of the 1.5l D-series. More evidence it is a standard 1.5l block. Credible members here have also posted that the D15B and D15Z1 rods are exactly the same.
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Old 09-23-2004, 07:50 PM
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Well any way it goes, I broke ringlands on cyl 4. And my spare motor has a spun rod bearing.

Now I don't have a car that runs at all. At least before I had a car that ran shitty.
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