Mad-Mike

iTrader: (1)

Is this normal for spark plugs to look like after 700 miles? I just got a new header, new primary O2 sensor, and new NGK spark plug wires. Whats driving me crazy is that the car is at 59k miles, after 700 miles I had to put a quart and 1/4 of oil to fill between the 2 holes on the dip stick. I am have yet to do a compression test(can't find the time when light out). Also does anyone know a good site where I can buy a gasket kit for the head?

Cylinder 4

Cylinder 3

Cylinder 2

Cylinder 1

Former User

Any CEL codes?

Did installation of the new header create an exhaust leak?

How do the cap and rotor contact points look?

Mad-Mike

iTrader: (1)

I would get a p0420 and p0133 rarely. I mostly get a p0420. I didn't notice any exhaust leaks, I replaced both gaskets when installing the new header. As for the cap and rotor contact points they look normal.

Former User

P0420 indicates a bad cat, which is typically caused by an engine that is running rich. This is consistent with the appearance of your plugs. Code P0133 suggests that a bad O2 sensor may be the cause.

Mad-Mike

iTrader: (1)

So basically both codes are saying that I need a new cat plus a new secondary o2 sensor? I've been thinking I will be needing a new cat because my currently one is pretty rusted and probably the original.

Former User

The cat is almost surely bad because your engine is running too rich. The rust is likely a side effect of the cat getting very hot from the rich condition. The secondary O2 sensor has nothing to do with determining the air-fuel ratio; only the primary O2 sensor does. P0133 signifies a bad primary O2 sensor, which probably made the engine run rich, which in turn killed the cat.

Mad-Mike

iTrader: (1)

So my primary o2 sensor is still good, its just a bad cat? Just making sure...

B18C5-EH2

No.

Code P0133 means you need to replace the primary o2 sensor.

It also means that the primary o2 sensor can be causing a rich condition, which in turn fouls spark plugs faster, and also rich condition kills your catalytic converter faster too.

B18C5-EH2

Side note:

No offense, but your pics make it hard to even see the tips of your spark plugs. If your camera has a "macro" mode try using it, and try to make sure the focus box is pointed directly at the spark plug tips. Macro is meant fr really close up shots of smaller areas.

I honestly cannot make a good call on your plugs from your pics.

Mad-Mike

iTrader: (1)

Sorry for the shitty pics, I took them with my phone.

Jimster480

this is exactly what i was going to say.

Also @RonJ, didnt he say he just replaced his O2 sensor? So he shouldnt have the problem anymore (well atleast the one you are describing regarding the primary o2).

Since its so hard to make a call on the plugs I can't really say either way until I see them. But are you burning oil (blue smoke from exhaust)?

B18C5-EH2

I re-read the topic this time instead of skimming.

If the primary oxygen sensor was replaced (hopefully not Bosch - OEM Honda, NTK, or Denso are ideal) then the check engine codes need to be reset/cleared, and then see if the code P0133 returns. I want to know where in that header the 02 sensor screws in also. some headers have the o2 located in only 1 header tube, or only off of 2 runners instead of just before the flange for the cat converter which effectively reads all 4 runners since they all collect there just before the cat converter. This can cause the o2 to read messed up even if it's a brand new Genuine Honda sensor.

Former User

If P0133 is still thrown repeatledly, rarely or not, then he has either a bad O2 sensor or an exhaust leak. As you know, parts can be bad right out of the box. Either way, the most likely scenario is that a bad primary O2 sensor or an exhaust leak made the engine run rich, and this killed the cat.

The black carbon color of the base ring of the spark plug is fully consistent with the engine running too rich.

Mad-Mike

iTrader: (1)

Here are some new pictures, they are bigger and hopefully you guys can see them better. Also I think I may have a faulty o2 sensor, I bought the Denso brand from Autozone for $133 and I sent them an email seeing if I can get a new one since I have a 3yr warranty. Also I will be getting a new cat, just gotta save cause they are $600!! Also the o2 sensor location on the header is before the Cat like on the normal stock exhaust.

v8killaz

also make sure to clear you codes after installing new o2 did you do that yet take the fuse out the box for like 5-10 minutes or so

Mad-Mike

iTrader: (1)

I carry a scanner in my glove box at all times, every time a code pops up I check it, and delete it.

B18C5-EH2

Denso o2 sensors are as good as Genuine Honda IMO. I've been using them instead of Genuine Honda now on customers vehicles for about 5 years and I have literally never had to warranty one. This is not to say you didn't get a bad one, but I'm just letting you know that they are excellent parts, and should you get that one warrantied and it throws the code too then you've got another problem.

Flow chart for P0133:



Funny thing about this flowchart is it pretty much dead ends at "replace primary o2 sensor" with not much other recourse like wire testing, "substitute with known good PCM and recheck for symptoms" etc. etc.

The only other possible cause for this code listed in the code description is "Exhaust System Leakage" which could be a very valid point if that header is leaking somewhere.

Is it a 1 piece, or 2 piece header?

Did you replace the exhaust manifold gasket, and are all of the studs/bolts in place and tightened properly?

Just asking. Sorry if I missed it already posted.