Sonia's Driver

Hello,

I have a 1993 del sol with a d15b7 and an Auto tranny.

I'm curious about doing some power upgrades, but it must remain auto, and it *must* remain reliable, as it's a daily driver. So I'm trying to determine the design capacity for the stock transmission.

Does anyone know which tranny is in that model of del sol, or how to determine the tranny code from the VIN? Even better, does anyone know the design specs for the torque converter and the clutches? Was the same tranny used in the Si version, which had like 25% more torque?

Thanks in advance for any information.

sho_shane

All SI's came with 5 speeds. The Honda Auto Tranny is really crap. Do I CAI, Header and exhaust. If you want more then that do i 5 speed swap.

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

Define "power". I/H/E really isn't going to do much-next to nothing. You can to a mild turbo build and still retain reliability if you do it right and be relatively inexpensive. Hinda automatics have the overwhelming consensus of being very weak. You'll be limited in what you can do if you must retain it.

94EG8

Del Sol Sis could be had with an automatic, the Del Sol VTEC was 5 speed only though.

There really isn't much you can do with an automatic Del Sol to make it fast.

ifIexplode

Can you please tell us why it must remain automatic. The swap is easy and i could teach a circus elephant to drive a manual trans.

Feeling any gains from an intake header and exhaust is minimal on any on a D series. Doing it to an automatic is just plain silly. Those gears are so long any bolt on upgrade would be over compensated by the long *** gears. Turbo it. See how long the automatic trans like bumping into gear in boost. haha.

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

Some people cannot drive stick. I could teach you how in 15 minutes.

nightscream

There are a few companies that make Honda automatic transmission parts to handle more power out there. As people have already said & will say again just throw a 5spd trans. in and you"ll be set. I personally have always wanted to build a an automatic transmission and bolt it up to a built D series on boost but last time I checked into building an auto trans was some where in the 1500-2000 range with a new stall converter. Then you have to figure in the labor to get it out, have someone rebuild then put back in. So unless you have 3-4000 laying around & have your heart set on doing this it's really not cost effective... You could order a ITR swap w/ LSD & convert to 5spd for that kind of money!!!!

Sonia's Driver

Hey, thanks for all of your responses.

To clarify, my fiancee knows how to drive stick, (she drives mine when she has to) she just doesn't like driving stick. It's her car, so as I said, the 5 spd swap is right out.

Second, I don't know who told you that the Honda auto tranny is crap. Compared to domestic trannys, this one is indestructible. It's got 180k on it, it hasn't exatly been given the kid glove treatment, and it still works great. (I'm still scratching my head as to how the timing belt change could have fixed the slight 2-3 shift hesitation, though. Perhaps it just wanted to be touched...)

Anyway, does anyone have anyinformation regarding the transmission codes and/or specs for the 1993 del sols?

FYI - I'm not looking to build a racecar - I only figured on being able to add somewhere around 10-50 HP, and just wanted to know how much I could safely add.

Thanks in advance for any information you have.

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

10-15hp? Intake, header & exhaust. But you won't feel it on that tranny. You'd barely feel it on a manual transmission.

Libertariat

He's not saying that honda auto transmissions don't last.

Driving 200,000+ miles on a transmission is a lot different than pushing 200+whp through a transmission that was never remotely designed with performance in mind.

You'll be spending more than it's worth to make a fast automatic. By the time you spend a fortune on enhancing the power holding capabilities of your auto d-series transmission, you could have swapped a v6 j-series in there with an auto transmission that is capable of holding a lot more power. You would also get stock reliability, more power, and a smoother shift.

A modified d-series auto transmission with a supercharger for example would drive you nuts as hard as it would shift.

10-50 horsepower is a pretty careless goal. What do you really want?


It's more likely that those modifications would just shift the powerband more than anything. d-series motors respond very poorly to bolt ons.

Sonia's Driver

Well, I don't really have a goal ...

I was kicking a Mini-Me swap around in my head to get the combined efficiency and power increase, but wasn't sure if the tranny could even handle it.

A research avenue occured to me and bore fruit:

The 1993 Civic del Sol S came with the d15b7 engine and the M24A automatic tranny (as an option)
The 1993 Civic del Sol Si came with the d16z6 engine and the M24A automatic tranny (as an option)

The p/n for both M24A's is 20021-P24-A61.

However, the specs between those two engines are not much different.
Most of the difference in HP rating is due to the increased redline by 400 RPM, and VTEC shifting the power band up 700 RPM. This delivers an almost 25% gain in HP.
However, the torque difference is only 8 ft*lb at 200 RPM higher.

So, the moral of the story is: Mini-Me swap is viable on an automatic transmision without taking the tranny out of its design specs. However: due to the power band being only slightly below the redline of the bottom end, a mini-me swap will not deliver a 25% power increase.

Thanks for your help everyone!

Libertariat

The real problem you face with performance on an automatic IMHO is gearing.

4 gears, all tiered towards better gas mileage.

A mini-me is something the transmission you have right now could certainly handle. You aren't going to damage your transmission by equalizing the engine to other similar d-series motors.

Sonia's Driver

Crap, I was wrong!

I just double checked, and the M24A in the Si is actually p/n 20021-P24-L81

That's not good.
It looks like the engine is destined to stay stock.

...I wonder what the differences between the transmissions are. It's too bad we don't have as good documentation of the transmissions as we do with the engines.

94EG8

I was gonna say, I thought they were both same too until MistaBone told me years ago they weren't. According to him (and from what I can recall from memory) They shift points are little different and the EX/Si automatic has a higher overdrive gear than the DX/LX transmission, this lowers the RPM for highway cruising (I think the thought was the D15B7 wouldn't have enough power to stay in overdrive if they'd used that transmission) As a guess i'd almost say the a Z6 or mini-me swap might feel better with a DX automatic transmission, but the mileage will probably suffer. If you were local i'd straight up give you an EX automatic, i've had one sitting here for 6 months now that I can't even seem to give away.

Sonia's Driver

You're right. The only differences in parts (of any consequence) that I could find is the Valve Body Assembly, the Mainshaft, the Secondary Shaft Fourth Gear, and the Torque Converter.

As all of the clutches seem to be the same, I would be surprised if simply swapping in the Torque Converter from the Si wouldn't get the power to the wheels without adversely affecting the longevity of the tranny.

Oddly, the two M24A's have the same governer. Seems like with a different final gear ratio they would have switched to a different governor, no? It must not connect to the tranny where I think it does.

Thanks for your help everyone, I think we've beaten this thread into submission.

94EG8

Final drive is indeed the same, I can't remember right off what it is, but I do remember reading the sales brochure and all the automatics had the same final drive. I really don't know much more than that, automatic transmissions really aren't something I excel at.

sktr9752

I drive an auto 93 eg hatch with a mini me swap its a y5 block with a y8 head n a d15b7 tranny I race my car all the time I also didn't have the cable on front on the tranny that makes it shift n down shift when floored hooked up for a good 6months then hooked it up n it works good as new the tranny can deff hold the power n is actually good with power seeing my auto beat stick is proof and motivation to build the motor more then a mini wit 4-1 header and a intake n build the tranny good luck with ur build and just have fun don't let dbags get u down cuz u have an auto some of the fastest drag cars are auto

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

Nice story. Learn to use punctuation.

Libertariat

94EG8

Dude, this thread is 6 months old. Also, Honda automatics are pretty hard to do anything with. Everyone else use a planetary (sun gear) design which is great for multiplying torque. Honda doesn't, a Honda automatic is more like a 4 speed manual with clutch packs instead of synchros and sleeves.

jdes93

Ok guys I have a 08 sedan lx auto. How much power can I push reliable over 220hp at the crank.

98civdx

You can start by not bumping old threads, in the wrong section.


This is the 92-00

RT_NEWYORK

so could google / youtube

jbpnoman

But grumble, he "races" his automatic Honda all the time, he must know what he's talking about!

adrianek9

dont listen to these wack jobs you can still go fast in auto just get a b swap and put a auto b series tranny like a b20b(2000 spec) with a 1999 ls auto integra tranny ..... i have the same thing in my 1996 coupe and i eat rsx and b16 + all sohc alll day!!! torque