Swed_honda

Like the title say i have a 97 Civic 1,8vti, just bought it for 200$ with fat 17" rims and stuff so it was a good deal, but pre owner sad it wont start, he had changed fuelpump and dizzy.

Im a car mechanic my self so i have done a bit of research, but now runed out of ideas :/

ive got nice spark on all 4cyls.
unplugged all plugs and checked when my girl cranked it over.
But!! some of them are a little wet when i pull them out???

Check all earthings, fuses, and codes.

i only get the 92 and 72 cel.
Dosent tell much.

took out the main relay, it looks fine to me,no defects,but smells a little burnt i think? can i override?
also sprayed wd40 on all contacts.
it only cranks and gives away strange sounds in the exaust, like it missfires? "boff" "boff" but dosent start.

right firing order,dubbel checked.
I also checked the timing belt, stands perfect.

im not 100% with the injectors, should look them up tomorrow.

my mind is telling me "bent valve" but it should fire up and go on 3 cyls at least.. or semthing.

if you got any ideas or tips i will be very thankfull
sorry for bad english.

Sincerly , Mike from a cold sweden

Swed_honda

anyone ? :/

09chaplak

Is your fuel pump priming when you turn the key to ON(II)?

Swed_honda

Yes, i belive so

what more components does the main relay control?

ive checked every forum,learnt every little thing about this car but can not find the problem!

there is spark,and will not start on eter either so whats wrong?
i get brain ghosts on this one fellas!

air/fuel/spark = Running engine? so why is mine dead.
and that strange noise when i crak it?

like "boff" "boff" "boff boff" like the wires are put wrong or it ignites when the exaust valve is open??? should fix compression test tomorrow also.
But i dont belive thats the problem, the car just cut out for the previous owner , and the info from him was " replace the dizzy,then ittl run"

TomCat39

I would do a compression test on all 4 cylinders and go from there.

I suspect 2 or more cylinders are below minimum spec for compression.

If two cylinders adjacent to each other have no compression it could be a bad head gasket between them. I doubt the engine will start with two zero compression cylinders.

Swed_honda

I will do that and se
its a b18c4 , what is original compression?`
Lets say its ok,and the fuel pressure is ok, what can cause it then?
Bad injectors? But still,it should run on 3 of them at least, he also sad now i remember that he was able to start it and drive it maybe 2 miles before it cut off , then let it rest 2min and then start it again, and suddenly just dead ? Very odd.. to much electrics
Better with old volvos ! haha

Jimi Hondrix

Read this: Spark Plug Fouling

Is it oil or coolant or unburned gasoline that is on the spark plugs?

Might as well read this too: http://www.aa1car.com/library/us1296.htm

TomCat39

Since the motor will be cold, I'd say 160+ should be decent.

Remember to disconnected both plugs from the distributor and also all four plugs from the injectors and do the compression test with the throttle wide open (WOT).

You can follow the dry test with a wet test to get even more information.

Post your numbers that you get and we'll go from there.

Typically most Honda motors are in the range of 180-190 PSI but that's warm not cold. Will be a fair amount lower with a cold engine.

Swed_honda

thanks for the numbers
the sparks are i pretty good condition, no "slugg" on them .
But it looks like it gets to much fuel,there are black. Not that nice chocolat brown colour.
but also,why do they get wet when i have good spark?
yesterday that happend on cyl 2-3 only.

I will go out and see what i can do today, i will check injectors to see if they spray mist and also do compression´test wish me luck!

B20VtecVillain

Sounds like compression is gone on a couple cylinders for sure. If you are definately getting spark, and enough fuel to wet down the electrode on the plug but it's not combusting that fuel, then your "air" part of the fuel/air/spark equation is not appropriate. This will likely be caused by a compression issue causing it not to burn and fire up. If not that, check everything else in the induction side. Make sure the throttle blade is opening and check your camshaft movement to make sure valves are opening and not stuck etc.

Swed_honda

Thansk for you reply
I will take of the valve cover and have alook at it will it cranks to se if there are any stuck valves to
Let say i got some broken valves, is it a big job to remove the head and change them?

Swed_honda

also, what fuel pressure should i have ?

Swed_honda

Now i checked fuel, pump is running and i can see the "bolt" on pressure gauge move´n in and out while tunring ignition on and off. seems in order.
Also losend the banjo on inlet side and put it in a jar while my girlfreind turned ignition on, and what i can tell it looks very weak ?
i will replace battery for a brand new and check again but there was not much pressure, it should be very high pressure there i suppose.
it just flowed gently.

also i noticed my green light "key" flashing in the dashboard, when ignition is on it wont stop,just keeps flashing. even after i turn ignition off it flashes for a while ?? immobilizer maybe?
But why does the pump and ignition work?
should it flash when ignition is on ? or light up for a while and then go out?

Former User

Definitely FIRST solve the immobilizer issue. Then go from there.

Swed_honda

i fixed te imo prob now, the green key goes out when i turn the key, checked the spark again and its realy great!
but i disconnected the injector cables to ensure i didnt make the plugs wet and tryed to start the car on eter.
result was big flame in the face true intake...

can the tdc sensor be broken so it ignites in wrong position?


reegards

morneau_dc4

Hey man, sucks about the issue. But all the previous tips should let you narrow it down. Although i believe (if you havent already ruled it out) that the head gasket is probably not the issue. Although i have never had problems with head gaskets on my b18 i have had head gasket issues on my 383 small block chevy. From this experience the motor still ran with a broken head gasket (it ran horribly, but still started). I understand that a v8 has opposing banks but the spark and the fuel should still be enough in the remaining cylinders to have it start.

I strongly believe that a broken tdc sensor would throw a code.

Sounds more of an electrical problem than a mechanical one. if you arent getting much fuel presure you may have a wire thats shortening out for the fuel pump? But thats just my 2 cents

Hope for the best!

Former User

Are you saying that the fuel system reaches spec pressure at the fuel rail, but the injectors don't spray fuel? If so, any CEL codes?

Edit - Why would you ignore code 72? This seems critical. Did you compression test the cylinders? Did you check the mechanical timing?

Swed_honda

i have bad pressure i belive, should check that and compression tomorow when i get the tools for it.

But i disconnected the injector cabels, had spark and tryed to start it with eter in the intake pipe, but only bangs backwards?
it should start.. i belive it ignites in the wrong position?
should check timing belt..again but it was correct last time i checked it.
why does it ingnite the eter and bangs true the inlet?
The sound with the injectors pluged in trying to start sounds like it ingnites correct but when the exhasut valves is open? realy strange problem, never seen or heard anything like it befor, but i can for sure tell its not a compression issue. but i will check it anyway.

Former User

Consistent with slipped timing belt and bent valve in cylinder 2.

No, you really can't until you do the test.

Swed_honda

yes i can tell its not bad compression because she starts if i place the firing order one hole backwards .. explain that?
she starts, runs on 3 cyls, gets little higher rpm when i pull the trhottle,but she runs.. must be the dizzy anyway i belive.
she ignites in wrong position

Swed_honda

i will do the test anyway tomorrow , so we will se
But if the tdc sensor faults, can that explain ignition problem?

Former User

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While driving normally, the car suddenly broke down, right? Did a little mouse under the hood swap the firing order?

Swed_honda

pre owner sad that yes.
but also that it started for some minutes and then died again, and now is completly dead.
Ive checked the firing order its correct, but dosent start, only missfires in the exsaust.

But if i change the hole firing order one hole backwards, so nr 4 firing place becomes nr 2 and so on the car starts, runs on 3cyls?. if the compression is out it shouldent start no matter firing order .... this **** honda is giving me headache..

Former User

I've given you solid tech advice, but you're very reluctant to take it. If you don't like the advice, chase your own ideas. However, you don't need a tech forum for that route.

Swed_honda

no i will ofc do a compression and fuel pressure test, but im just sayin there is not that problem. ive check injector signal, spark, ecu,cel,earthings,main relay,fuelpump,fuelfilter,timingbelt,valves and contacts,fuses,immobilizer , whole electrical system and many many other things. still only runs with the firing order one step backwards.
and my question is can that be caused by broken tdc sensor? can that make the dizzy to realese the spark to early or late?