sikciv666

need some imput fellas... putting a b16 into a 90 crx. Im also tryin to put a jdm type r header into it so i have to get a new crossmember. The z10 one comes w/ radius rods and all the bushing. The place one comes w/ just the member. The 2 places i called said the place one was on backorder.. so i called z10 and they have it instock but its like 200 more dollars than the place one...im kind of in a pickle, need help deciding. let me know chumps..

ps place one is 195 , z10 is 400


dam, mod please fell free to move this post i put it in the wrong forum

Burke

z10 sucks, geometry is all off. Dont say its not, cause im a mech e and currently doing r and d on traction bars

go for jimfab. jimfab.com

Motts

Can you elaborate on your comment. No flame, just curious. Right now I would agree with you and go with the Jim Fab also. Ive heard Jim Fab worked for Z-10, found a problem with the bar, no one listened, then designed his own. Now that Ive seen both I really cant see a difference. I have the Z-10 and it works great, when I purchased mine I didnt even know the Jim Fab bar existed (maybe it didnt). Now people say that the Z-10, under certain circumstances can break or do damage, or something bad. Can you clarify my vague information?

Burke

where the z10 radius arm is connected the crossmember is not inline with same axis as the lower control arm, hence binding problems. also have you taken a look at you lca bushings. my bet they worn to all hell and are on their way out. havent seen a broken one yet, but who knows. i havent done any stress analysis on it yet, but that is coming soon. and dont worry the h-t enviornment will benefit from research.
if you are just buying one now, i would definatley go with the jimfab, there are the best i have seen out there.
hope this helps
later
Burke

Z10ROB

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Burke &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">where the z10 radius arm is connected the crossmember is not inline with same axis as the lower control arm, hence binding problems. also have you taken a look at you lca bushings. my bet they worn to all hell and are on their way out. havent seen a broken one yet, but who knows. i havent done any stress analysis on it yet, but that is coming soon. and dont worry the h-t enviornment will benefit from research.
if you are just buying one now, i would definatley go with the jimfab, there are the best i have seen out there.
hope this helps
later
Burke</TD></TR></TABLE>


Care to explain? The CRX Radius arms mount to FACTORY locations and dont even
make contact with any bushings. They in the same location as the factory arms, and follow the same path to the control arm.

Burke

he crx ones are ok, cause all you had to do was copy honda geometry that was there. but on an eg, you had to make your own, and you made a poor design. which has now been corrected by jimfab
the z10 bar on eg's, as other poorly designed bars, wears bushing in the lca prematurely and doesnt help performance as it should.

edit - i see he has an crx, but this was posted in the eg forum, so i assumed he had an eg.
but if i were you i would still go with jimfab - does z10 employ any engineers?????

Z10ROB

Kid for the record you have no idea what you are talking about. If you want to know the real story about Z10,call us. And yes we do have an engineer.

QUiKSR20

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Burke &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">he crx ones are ok, cause all you had to do was copy honda geometry that was there. but on an eg, you had to make your own, and you made a poor design. which has now been corrected by jimfab
the z10 bar on eg's, as other poorly designed bars, wears bushing in the lca prematurely and doesnt help performance as it should.

edit - i see he has an crx, but this was posted in the eg forum, so i assumed he had an eg.
but if i were you i would still go with jimfab - does z10 employ any engineers?????</TD></TR></TABLE>

Way to show your ignorance bro.. DO They employ an engineer?
Are you kidding me? Do your homework and see what people run
Z10 Products and then look at the times they run.

Look at Z10's Oil System products and then ask your self that question again.

boostedcivicsir

no qualms with z10 so far.

used oil products and traction bars. we have a set on our ITR, and did an alignment after the fact once caster was set, everything was fine. installed with no directions and no prob install.

eyeamvic

I've heard good things about the z10. Most of the ppl who have them are satisfied with the product. Otherwise, they wouldn't have become so popular.

Burke

i dont care what ppl run. its still wrong on the eg's. my research and analysis tells me so. dont worry i'll prove it soon enough.
if you have a 4gen, then z10's are ok
if you have a 5gen, buy the jimfab.
until i have some FEA screenshots, ill keep quiet

sledgehammer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Burke &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">he crx ones are ok, cause all you had to do was copy honda geometry that was there. but on an eg, you had to make your own, and you made a poor design. which has now been corrected by jimfab
the z10 bar on eg's, as other poorly designed bars, wears bushing in the lca prematurely and doesnt help performance as it should.

edit - i see he has an crx, but this was posted in the eg forum, so i assumed he had an eg.
but if i were you i would still go with jimfab - does z10 employ any engineers?????</TD></TR></TABLE>

I concur. I've only heard bad things about z10 engineering.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by z10rob &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Kid for the record you have no idea what you are talking about.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Wow is someone getting a little defensive?..and way to try and demean a potential customer and show everybody here what z10's really about.

Mike

slammed_93_hatch

wow, i don't really no **** about all this technical talk but i would like to see the final anylasis of burke

sledgehammer

hey z10rob: explain this thread and I'll possibly change my mind about z10.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=409201

Mike

QUiKSR20

iTrader: (1)

Thats one product out of about 20+ they make. Welcome to
last year. Get over it people make products and then make newer versions
and think of newer ideas all the time. What if this was a rod or a bearing
and you lost your engine? Then there would be a real problem but your
talking about damage to a 10$ bushing.

When you race cars and add parts for performance theres always sacrifices.

IF I LAUNCH my car on slicks all day do i complain that my clutch isnt holding up
like it should??? NO.. EXACTLY MY POINT!

For some of the best customer support money can buy and some kick ***
products you guys give Z10 a whole bunch of BS Why dont you spend more
time enjoying your cars and this forum instead of starting ****, Talk
to some real members of this board that run some of Z10's Oil products
and other hardcore parts And stop jumping on the bandwagon of who to
protect on the board and who to talk trash about.

I SWEAR THIS BS ONLY EXISTS ON THESE HONDA BOARDS WE DONT HAVE THIS BS ON THE VW AND NISSAN FORUMS


Modified by QUiKSR20 at 10:02 PM 11/15/2003

QUiKSR20

iTrader: (1)

AND THE LIST GOES QUITE!!!!!!!!!!!!

x916

quiksr20, we all know you work for z10

THE GAME IS THICK

go jimfab
i have seen peoples bushings ripped at the mounting points of the crossmember after they installed the z10 on the eg/dc chassis. ill try to post pics.

QUiKSR20

iTrader: (1)

And your point? Did i say anything against anyone elses product?
I just told it like it is !


Modified by QUiKSR20 at 6:42 AM 11/16/2003

Burke

why should you have to sacrifice anything when you buy one product where there is a properly desgined product out there that cheaper???????

and maybe h-t is the only board with this kinda stuff on it, because only h-t has knowledgable, techical driven engineers......
likei said before -
4gen - doesnt matter
5 gen - jimfab

i dont give a rat's *** about any other products by z10, hence i am not arguing about their other products - only their improperly designed traction bars

wow! look - I just told it how it REALLY is

slammed_93_hatch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by QUiKSR20 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And your point? Did i say anything against anyone elses product?
I just told it like it is !


Modified by QUiKSR20 at 6:42 AM 11/16/2003</TD></TR></TABLE>


wow dude this post was refering DIRECTLY TO the TRACTION bar not anything else yes it is one out of 20 other products that you make, but its one product that has a faulty design. bottom line. now the list goes silent, don't try and make your self sound better by changeing the subject and talking about other thing that have absolutly nothing to do with the topic

QUiKSR20

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Burke &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and maybe h-t is the only board with this kinda stuff on it, because only h-t has knowledgable, techical driven engineers......
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Your Joking right? I sure hope so.. Go onto some nissan places and
drop the names Mike Kojima and people like Rob Cadle..

1 Rob a Garrett Engineer

2 Mike a Mechanical eningeeer who has written 2 HONDA / ACURA BOOKS
and countless race engines for Honda Nissan Acura ETC

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obi...07846

Your definatly living in a bubble if you think those forums and types
of cars dont have knowledgable people. What they dont have is 20 year
old kids THINKING THERE MECHANICAL Engineers and they are not soap
opera based places to learn about cars. Theres no real BANDWAGON people
and companys as well.

And for the record you dindt tell ANYTHING How it is, You just proved your imaturity and ignorance a little more

Burke

well, im 22 and ill have my degree in about 6 months and then my masters in another 1.5 years (and dont think im some ******* nitwit cause i am on a full academic ride almost a 4.0 and ill be getting paid to get my masters). maybe you ought to try college, then you could actually analyze a bad product and know what you are talking about.
call me what you will but the bottom line is THE EG Z10 BAR IS WRONG. now you cant dispute that.

Z10ROB

Since when does an engineer refer to a product as it "sucks" You should study how to be Professional along with being an ME. As for your proposed FEA analysis, you will need a Jim Fab, and a Z10 Radius arm system along with a front clip. You will need to take precise measurements in all 3 planes. FEA is good for stress and strain but is not the proper way to design or analyze suspension components. A 3D suspension analyzer is what we use.

You will need to take the following factors into consideration such as ride height, vehicle mass, track width, wheel base and center of gravity. Also measure lower control arm and upper control arm pivots, ball joint locations ect. Once this is done you can figure out suspension arcs, roll center, bump steer, instant center and anti dive. After that do your FEA.

If you look at our system for the eg you will see that it has the least amount of linear displacement of the lower control arm and supports the lower control arm out further there by eliminating lower control arm defection under braking and acceleration.
This translates in to reduced caster gain/loss and better vehicle feel and stability.

As for that drawing that is referenced in this post, https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=409201 it is not to scale (the radius arms would be 50 inches long) and if you look at the lower control arm pivots they are parallel to the vehicle center line. Look under your civic, you will see the lower control arm pivots are angled as compared to the vehicle center line. That drawing does not represent the eg suspension, it is inaccurate not to scale and only shows one view. Suspensions move in 3 dimensions not one. How can you base a conclusion on inaccurate data?


Modified by Z10ROB at 9:58 PM 11/17/2003

Burke

im in contact with rob, cause - well, he is smarter than me here is the im i sent him
Hi Rob. sorry to come off like a dick in that thread. but according to my preliminary analysis, the jimfab eg bar looks like a better, more correct design. but after what you expalined in the thread, you abviously know much more than me in this field. I was gonna keep shut, but that quiksr20 egged me on
perhaps you might be able to help me. I am doing my Senior design project at Youngstown State University on traction bars and their application for high horsepower front wheel drive drag cars. Maybe we could work something out that would be beneficial to the both of us.
Thanks for you time