SuicideSlide

A friend of mine has a GSR runnin 14.8's consistently with just I,H,E and fully advanced timing. His gas mileage sucks but he pulls strong. Im looking for actual dyno proof that this can actually help. Im sort of skeptical on this method. Just want to know how it could actually benefit or hurt an engine...

drew

dsadas89das78934

advancing your timing is perhaps the oldest hot-rodding trick in the book... of course it helps, the fuel/air mixture is ignited earlier in the stroke (BTDC), and actually ends up expanding as it is compressed, the fuel/air mixture is burned more completely, and thus you get more power.

but advancing your timing can also blow yhour motor in a split second, i've seen a y8 block totally shitted because they were playing with the timing too much on the dyno.

nonsense

yup . . . advanced timing needs higher octane fuel also. So if you run 91 (or higher) octane on a stock engine (stock timing) your wasting money. Advance the timing with 89 octane and you'll start to detonate (leads to blown engine). So you advance the timing and increase octane and listen for detonation (pinging sound) If you hear it, even a little bit, you need to retard the timing a little. You will especially hear it under high load situations (going up hill, low rpm WOT pulls). Be carefull.

Steve

SuicideSlide

Well the highest we have here is 91 octane (LV,NV) Have any of you guys actually seen a hp figure on a dyno. Meaning how much someone could gain just due to advanced timing and higher octane. Id have to say less than 10 hp.

Anyone have a good base timing setting to start with. Or should I just get the timing light out and start advancing till I hear detonation. BTW his timing is FULLY advanced. He's been running this for over a year and a half now. He learned about this by word of mouth and not mechanical knowledge. Luckily hes been running 91 in his car. So Im assuming that fully advanced timing probably wouldnt do too much damage to our b series engines..

Evs-One

"fully advanced timing"= I'm a cheap bastard that can't afford a timing light

But seriously...there is such a thing as advancing your timing too much EVEN if it's not pinging.

With that said....I wouldn't go anymore than 2 degrees at idle. This might yield a few ponies possibly....but throttle response will be noticable.

The only way to trully dial in timing and make good power is with engine management. I usually add a couple degrees at the distributor on my engines though

nonsense

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Emerika &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">"fully advanced timing"= I'm a cheap bastard that can't afford a timing light

But seriously...there is such a thing as advancing your timing too much EVEN if it's not pinging.

With that said....I wouldn't go anymore than 2 degrees at idle. This might yield a few ponies possibly....but throttle response will be noticable.

The only way to trully dial in timing and make good power is with engine management. I usually add a couple degrees at the distributor on my engines though </TD></TR></TABLE>

very true. Just as with any fine tuning of an engine, you can't just blindly set things and expect max power (i.e. cam timing, spark timing, etc). There comes a time that it's too advanced. The only way to really see what will work best for your particular engine is to put it on a dyno. But most people will say that adding 2 degrees at idle is "safe" . . . just listen to the engine and if you hear any unusual noise turn it back to stock. The extra power isn't usually worth the cost of a blown engine.

Another thing, it's very dependant on what you're cam timing is set to as well. Just cause your friend gets away with "fully advanced" doesn't mean that you will. It's more about how the whole setups is configured. I suggest doing a small increase or getting it tuned properly at a dyno.

chads

yea i wouldn't advance the timing on an engine that already requires 91-92 oc.

WAFFLES

unless you are running race gas, the engine's timing typically needs to be 14-18 degrees. You have to put it on the dyno to see exactly how much to advance it. My car liked it at 18degrees. A buddy with a similar setup, well his engine didn't like it past 15 or 16(can't remember).

The only way to KNOW for SURE is the dyno.

JD_B18CDX

Advancing the timiming on a GSR is pretty safe.

It has a knock sensor (if you did not disbale it with a new chip). that will retard the timing if it detects a knock.

What you dont want is at higher RPMs the ECU retards the timing (because of too much advance) to that point that it is much lower than when you started out in the first place. THis negates the whole thing on trying to gain more power by advacing the timing.

On engines without a knock sensor, yes there is a risk of destroying the motor. Just imaging the cylinder getting full presure ( all gases are burned) while still travelling upward on the compression stroke.

SuicideSlide

So what about advancing the timing on a b18b???

Evs-One

Don't you understand that before the point of pinging, your engine can LOSE power with too much timing!!!

Just because it doesn't ping, doesn't mean the timing should be at that point.

2 degrees at the dist is the most you should go

SuicideSlide

thanks for helping with this guys... be on the dyno first thing on monday...

looking for actual hp numbers gained due to this. First on an LS, then on a gsr. Hoping for 5-10 hp and maybe gains through out the power curve..

brockscivic

In my 1992 LX I have to keep my timing al the way advanced or my motor starts bogging and sputtering. Any ideas on my problem? I just bougth cap,rotor,wires, and plugs, so they are all new. but it did it before and after this. Any ideas? Thanks

leadfoot78

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by brockscivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In my 1992 LX I have to keep my timing al the way advanced or my motor starts bogging and sputtering. Any ideas on my problem? I just bougth cap,rotor,wires, and plugs, so they are all new. but it did it before and after this. Any ideas? Thanks</TD></TR></TABLE>

U may have skipped a tooth on the timing belt, I would check that thats serious, if not than some thing in the distributor is taking a ****.

As for gaining power with advanced timing, it's bullshit. Driving in cold weather will yield more power than advancing your timing. My GSR with CTR cams and much more lost power form running 18deg and started detonating in high rpm, I have a dyno sheet. At 16 it's all good. Your friend is a ricer, and if u want cheap power keep the intake charge cool, time it with a timing gun, and do a tune up.

cliff666

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by leadfoot78 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

U may have skipped a tooth on the timing belt, I would check that thats serious, if not than some thing in the distributor is taking a ****.

As for gaining power with advanced timing, it's bullshit. Driving in cold weather will yield more power than advancing your timing. My GSR with CTR cams and much more lost power form running 18deg and started detonating in high rpm, I have a dyno sheet. At 16 it's all good. Your friend is a ricer, and if u want cheap power keep the intake charge cool, time it with a timing gun, and do a tune up. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i agree on this advancing timing really didnt werk for me i had mine at stock i ran a consistant 14.8 on my b18b and when i advanced it 2 degrees the car felt great but on teh track i noticably saw a dif in time. i couldnt break 15.0

SuicideSlide

So am I going to be the first to try this on a dyno? (b18b with just bolt ons I,H,E)

nonsense

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tur*bLu &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So am I going to be the first to try this on a dyno? (b18b with just bolt ons I,H,E)</TD></TR></TABLE>

no, you're not the first. This is something that every dyno tuner should do when tuning an engine. I'm not saying that it will 100% give you more power but it's something that should be experimented with on your setup while on a dyno. My best guess is that you'll see some more power with slight advancement, but you'll see less as you go further (and might even hear some pinging).

Let us know your results tho. . .

cliff666

2 degrees at most i had mine only advance a degree just for a slight better throttle response. it seemed like it worked lol.

brockscivic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by leadfoot78 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

U may have skipped a tooth on the timing belt, I would check that thats serious, if not than some thing in the distributor is taking a ****.

As for gaining power with advanced timing, it's bullshit. Driving in cold weather will yield more power than advancing your timing. My GSR with CTR cams and much more lost power form running 18deg and started detonating in high rpm, I have a dyno sheet. At 16 it's all good. Your friend is a ricer, and if u want cheap power keep the intake charge cool, time it with a timing gun, and do a tune up. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I bought the car with a blown motor, replaced it with a 1995 d15b7, the timing belt looked was OEM Honda and looked brand new so i didnt change it. I havnt touched anything relating to the timing belt. Unless, the first owner did this, i hav no idea. The owner of the car was rough on his ****, so it could be the dizzy but im not sure any ideas? IT misses like a bitch at idle but not in the driving range. I need help.
Thanks

MaxSterling

advancing timing will increase power stroke of combustion, b/c gas ignition takes time to expand and push piston down. therefore if you ignite gas before TDC you will gain maximum stroke from combustion.

However if timing is advanced too much, that is too much before tdc. pistons will not have travel around enough and combustion will force piston straight down on crank. this will break rods, turn/ruin bearings.

ideal for N/A honda car is around 16-18 btdc. Some will hear detonation/ping with poor/bad fuels/gasoline.

Matt B

get a afc and it will advance the timing 6 degrees under boost.