whitemike1644

every post i see these days it always ends up with someone saying that the GSR motor is the best motor to start with when going N/A.

now this is getting on my nerves. why does everyone think this i mean look at it this way, most people like the gsr because you start with a 1.8 block and the IAB's but then you compare to a type R everyone says the motor costs too much.

now how is that when the GSR motors usually run for around $3200 and i have seen alot of type R swaps going for like $3999-$4200. now look at the difference if you would get a GSR and upgrade everything.

first off the type R tranny is WAY better than the GSR tranny hands down way better gearing and factory lsd, a better flowing head and bigger intake manifold and TB. a better factory header, and a way better valve train. (cams, valve springs, etc..).

no lets go guy a GSR for say even $3000.
lets get the type R cams $300 minimum.
valve springs and retainers will run you around $300 for good ones.
a header. minimum of $300
skunk2 intake manifold $250
TB $xxx

well hmm let me see you just got basic bolt ons and hmmm maybe i am wrong but you just spend more than you would have with buying the type R in the first place and you haven't even gotten in the same overall worth of a type R motor.

you tranny is still whack. your head is still pretty restricted. and you probably aren't putting down as much power to the wheels.

yes i am just ranting but i just hate it when people are so biast to the GSR like it is god.

i am going to get a K20 swap because i know the potential of the motor and back when i first posted that everyone just sat there saying get a GSR or a Bseries and build it and you won't spend as much money and you will be making more power than a K20.

ok well can someone show me a daily drivable 2.0 liter motor thats a B-series. that puts down 280 to the wheels on PUMP GAS N/A?

if you can do that please do.

and you want to get into price of the swap.

ok well look at a K20A2 (USDM type S) will cost around $3000-$3500 full swap at a junk yard.

now to install its about $3100 or so with all parts and labor.

now a GSR install is going to run about $3200 and with parts and labor about what another $500 with mounts and shift-linkage labor will depend on where you go but lets say a shop just for comparison reason. $500. you just spent $4200.

now you spend about $1900 less on the GSR.

but pound for pound the K20 will be a better platform to work with than the GSR is. everyone knows the Bseries limits and you know what you can do and what to expect out of it.

numbers wise the K20 is blowing Bseries motors out of the water on the dyno charts whether it be basic bolt ons or full build ups or turbo's.

i know i am rambling on a little bit i am just tired of everyone just hating and being so biased towards the freaking GSR motors.

sorry if i didn't make much sense just a lil irritated and got a little too much time on my hands.

dohcdelsol

I think someone needs a

BauleyCivic

Because GSR motors are the best of both worlds, especially the B18C Sir-G motors. My roommates motor was 10x better than his old B16. With I/E and street tires he ran 14.3, adding a header and azenis he ran 13.7...it truly is a great motor.

fishnfst

k20 all the way. If you want to go big go k24 with the rsx head....

Awar318

Bauley,

With a b16a-siR2 and headers etc. what kind of 1/4 times would you expect to see?

BauleyCivic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Awar318 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Bauley,
With a b16a-siR2 and headers etc. what kind of 1/4 times would you expect to see?</TD></TR></TABLE>

In what, an EG hatch? Mid 14's.

Awar318

Yes thats what I was speaking of.

And thanks.

RangerDan

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fishnfst &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">k20 all the way. If you want to go big go k24 with the rsx head....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Gsr engine is a great platform because you can build it with more comp. amd bigger cams than a stock r engine...if you wanna go that route.

Personally I like the r swap better than the gsr but I certainly can see the bennies of that engine.

We swapped in a r last year and it proved itself over and over again at the drags and autox events. This year however out with the old and in with the new...k24/20 swap underway.

Archidictus

The B18C gets all the credit because it's like the "small block Chevy" of the import world. The K20A is the upcoming "LS1", the H22A is the "454", the B16 is the "305 HO"...etc.

It's a proven way to make reliable (and massive amounts of) power. The K24 + K20A head thing is going to be as big for hybrid Hondas as the MTI 427 LS6 is for General Motors .

dantastic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Archidictus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The B18C gets all the credit because it's like the "small block Chevy" of the import world. The K20A is the upcoming "LS1", the H22A is the "454", the B16 is the "305 HO"...etc.

It's a proven way to make reliable (and massive amounts of) power. The K24 + K20A head thing is going to be as big for hybrid Hondas as the MTI 427 LS6 is for General Motors .</TD></TR></TABLE>

interesting analogy. too bad 80% of the ricers here wont understand it

b16 = not that fast.... i wish i had a b18c1

Archidictus

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dantastic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">interesting analogy. too bad 80% of the ricers here wont understand it

b16 = not that fast.... i wish i had a b18c1</TD></TR></TABLE>

B16 = 305 HO ...305 HO = bitch motor .

Yeah, I guess one could look at the B18C5 as a factory worked smallblock too. I wish more of the people here could draw the correlation .

Uncle Ben

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Archidictus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The B18C gets all the credit because it's like the "small block Chevy" of the import world. The K20A is the upcoming "LS1", the H22A is the "454", the B16 is the "305 HO"...etc.

It's a proven way to make reliable (and massive amounts of) power. The K24 + K20A head thing is going to be as big for hybrid Hondas as the MTI 427 LS6 is for General Motors .</TD></TR></TABLE>

Best Honda analogy i've ever heard! . Def goin in the sig lol.

Jmunk

I'm with you on this WhiteMike.

anothersickhatch

white mike, you do have a great point. i agree with the things you are saying but what im about to say goes against the whole b16 being a 305 HO.

So archdictus, a b16 is a bitch motor? im sure alot are with me when i say that a b16 is NOT a bitch motor. a b16 can be and is just as potent as any motor out there if its done right and there is a good driver behind the wheel.

im sick of everyone saying that b16's suck and that they are weak *** motors because they arent. just because they are 1.6L and make 10 horsepower less that a b18c1?

Blue-Civic-Hybrid

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Archidictus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The B18C gets all the credit because it's like the "small block Chevy" of the import world. The K20A is the upcoming "LS1", the H22A is the "454", the B16 is the "305 HO"...etc.

It's a proven way to make reliable (and massive amounts of) power. The K24 + K20A head thing is going to be as big for hybrid Hondas as the MTI 427 LS6 is for General Motors .</TD></TR></TABLE>

Awesome analogy...and I love my B18C1...but someday in the future I will probably get a K20 swap...a few years down the road that is...

43MA

couldn't agree with you more
i did the C1 route nad thinking back on it i should have gone C5

Archidictus

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by anothersickhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So archdictus, a b16 is a bitch motor? im sure alot are with me when i say that a b16 is NOT a bitch motor. a b16 can be and is just as potent as any motor out there if its done right and there is a good driver behind the wheel.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I was kidding . The 305 is usually looked at as the gutless bastard of General Motors' V8's, and I was drawing a parallel between the common consensus on this board about the under-torqued B16 and the 305 HO. Of course, there are some rapist 305's and there are some swayzee B16 setups on this board, but that's not nearly as funny to say, now is it?

i<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">m sick of everyone saying that b16's suck and that they are weak *** motors because they arent. just because they are 1.6L and make 10 horsepower less that a b18c1?</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, it's because they make like 98 wheel torque stock. At least that's my reasoning.

hair_rice

first off i agree with what u are sayin about teh GS-R and teh type-r motor...if u can find a deal on a type-r for that much...definately go witht the R...but they are tough to find for 4g's or less....u get a lot more with the r as well like u were sayin, compared to a gs-r and upgrading...

now to your K20 swap...i have a hard time believing that you are goin to get a k20a2 which is the i-vtec model i believe for 3500...especially at a junk yard...if u are i would love to know where in SD cuz im there as well...now 3100 for install sounds about right...i just talked to a guy who spent close to 8g's for the whole shabang, and he is puttin down 200 to the wheels with mods...no to get to 280hp you must be puttin in some serious cash after the swap with could amount to 9g's and more to get to 280hp...IMPO i think right now most are better off startin off with a b20 crvtec and building that for about 5g's fully done which will put down 250+hp with good tuning...i personally dont think that the K series swap is worth it yet for how much u have to pay to get it and install it....but in a few years or so the K is goin to be the future and will cost less to buy adn install, and at that point it would totally be more cost effective to invest in a K...but for the average honda-techer with not a bank load of cash, the K might not be worth it

im not sure of your financials but if you can afford the K20 and mods, more power to ya....but i still think a crvtec can get you to that 250+hp plateau for 3g's less...but its all up to what u wanna spend....

this took to long time for a

hair_rice

BTW are you headed out to the SD meet this saturday?

SkyeC

Well I didn't read all that **** you wrote but the GSR motor has a sweet midrange powerband and the price difference between a GSR and ITR swap was more of a $2000 dollar gap instead of the $1000 or so it is now when I got my swap.

People buy what they can afford... and it's a lot easier for many people to afford a $3k swap than a $4k or $5k swap.

743

I've noticed that people ALWAYS recommend either a gsr motor or a sohc turbo motor. And every time someone asks about a b16 they get blown out of the water. Some just don't understand the purpose of starting off with a better platform. If I had a choice between my cruddy old y7 with a turbo on it or my b16, I would take the b16 hands down. Why? Because the b16 has more potential in the long run.

AnitRiceSuperStar

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Archidictus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

B16 = 305 HO ...305 HO = bitch motor .

Yeah, I guess one could look at the B18C5 as a factory worked smallblock too. I wish more of the people here could draw the correlation .</TD></TR></TABLE>

corection-b18b 90-93=307 and the b18b 94+=305, b16a 350(cause its so common and proven itself)

whitemike1644

go to the junk yards down south talked to the guy my self i asked how much you sell the type S swaps for and pointed at the one he had sitting there and he said "$3500"

and your boy who paid $8000 for his swap he must have gotten a K20a (JDM type R) and his is only putting down 200 to the wheels modded????? what mods does he have?

i have a old write up of rj d'vera's rsx with a K20 a, mods were I/H/E test pipe and hondata and he was putting down over 220 to the wheels. it was closer to 235 but i can't remember where the site was.

go on the clubrsx board they have all kinds of type S motors putting down over 200 to the wheels. and if you swap this motor in to a car other than a rsx, you probably have to use a different custom header which i know for sure k20eg makes a sick *** one with his swap's that are dyno proven.

so yea i understand about the whole gsr swap being a good motor. but listening to these last comments about the 280 to the wheels in a K20 that costs around $7000 from hytech. yea pricey but your still on pump gas, and last i heard k20eg has a kit thats going to put our around the same at a reduced price. oh and like i said in my original post i said you show me a motor that can make big power N/A on PUMP GAS.

see for me i am going to keep whatever car it is i get a daily driver. i would rather have a daily that can put out 280 on pump gas anyday. yea its pricey but lets see. 3500+3100+$7000= $13600. and you got 280 on pump gas all motor. now yea thats pricey i aint going to argue that i am just saying that the motor is more potent than any b series or h series are.

oh and as for the whole b16's suck i have friends who have run Ls motors and get low into the 13's with way less work than most B16's or Gsr i see. so it doesn't matter what motor you start with i know that. it just bothers me that people live and die by the b18c1.

and can you show me another motor that you can get 20 wheel hp from intake and a ecu reflash.

i am really trying to explain the price difference in the k20 vs the type R and the H22 is very similar. but i kinda went off into the whole gsr thing because everyday i see about a million people going " oh B18C1 all the way " and its gets a lil irritating.

RangerDan

Theres alot of good points in that last post. Earlier this year we started making plans to add more power to the jdm r engine. After looking at the cost of the upgrades we decided for about the same price difference we could get a k24/20 swap for about the same price....including the extra money from selling the r engines.

duckmanEG

well i think alot of people take the gsr for a good n/a motor becuz of the smaller combustion chamber, give yourself that .3ish or so in the c.r. then just have the head pnp your good and then sum cams. thats what i think