Honda Civic / Del Sol (1992 - 2000) EG/EH/EJ/EK/EM1 Discussion

Oil Question: (will synthetic work for me?)

 
Old 08-07-2004, 12:17 PM
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Default Oil Question: (will synthetic work for me?)

Ok, 3 simple questions.

1. I want to run on synthetic oil now on my 99 civic si with 76k miles. Will this be alright bcuz of the mileage, or should i stay with the reg 5w30 im currently running?

2. I just changed my oil about 300-400 miles ago, and i dont want to wait the 3k+ miles to switch to synthetic, so would it be alright to change my oil this early after the previous change?

3. Is it alright to use a K&N oil filter, or should i buy an OEM honda one, an dif so can i jsut get those at the local honda dealership, bcuz i only saw fram and k&n at wal-mart.
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Old 08-07-2004, 12:20 PM
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1. You will be fine switching over. The mileage shouldn't really make a difference

2. It doesn't matter how often you change the oil. You can change it every week if you feel like it.

3. I'd personally only use Honda filters, and yes they sell them at the dealerships.
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Old 08-07-2004, 12:29 PM
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Default Re: (electronb16si)

i like fram filters, they work good and that sure grip does come in handy when your changing your oil
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Old 08-07-2004, 12:59 PM
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Default Re: Oil Question: (EM1VtecSi)

Just remember to take it easy on your car for the first few hundred miles to let the synthetic "take effect" it reconditions the seals or some **** i believe and it takes a little while for the seals and parts to regain the protection they once had. if you drive hard right away you run the risk of burning your engine up, its basicly like running with little to no oil for a while if you run hard. So my advice take it easy after the switch over
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Old 08-08-2004, 05:08 AM
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Default Re: Oil Question: (nocternaldragon)

It would be the best if you flush your engine with some 0w20 oil for couple of minutes and then drain the engine and put in some serious synthetic like Mobil1 5w30...

The process goes like this: (taken from the OIL BIBLE by Chris Longhurst)

Drain the old oil from the oil pan... leave the old oil filter on... screw in the drain bolt (no need to change the washer)... poor in 3.8q of 0w20 oil... Start the engine and let it idle for at least 20 minutes... DO NOT DRIVE with 0w20 oil in the engine cos it might not last... after 20-30 minutes shut down the engine and let the oil get back to the pan (another 5-10 minutes)... loosen the drain plug and drain all the 0w20 oil from the pan... let it REALLY DRAIN OUT... take off the old oil filter and replace with the new one (preff. OEM)... replace the washer on the drain bolt and tighten the drain bolt securely... poor in the new synthetic Mobil1 5w30 in amount that your manual specifies (until level on the dipstick reaches MAX mark - DO NOT EXCEED THE MAX MARK)...

Start the car and check for leaks...

Start driving and drive carefully few hundred miles (like someone above said) to let all the seals and inner parts regain protection...

That's it...

0w20 oil is used to clean of the sludge that regular oil built inside the engine...

Here's the link... there's some really interesting stuff there...

http://www.chris-longhurst.com....html
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Old 08-08-2004, 06:15 AM
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Default Re: Oil Question: (KKVTi)

unless ur in a really cold weather..id use the 10/30 mobil 1..

changing over to syn with that many miles on the motor..use a a blend
first so the seals get used to the syn oil..then after 500 miles switch to
a full syn.

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Old 08-08-2004, 06:29 AM
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Default Re: Oil Question: (deepnite)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by deepnite &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">unless ur in a really cold weather..id use the 10/30 mobil 1..

changing over to syn with that many miles on the motor..use a a blend
first so the seals get used to the syn oil..then after 500 miles switch to
a full syn.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I thought it was the oppsotie. 5w30, then 10w30 when it gets colder.......Honda recommends 5w30 for civics right?
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Old 08-08-2004, 07:20 AM
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Default Re: Oil Question: (EM1VtecSi)

If you can find it, the best to use (what I use) is called AMSOIL. It really is the best, and I actually saw a 300rpm lower idle at cold start. It lubricates better, being a REAL synthetic. It reccomends 25,000 mile intervals for the oil, and has been around for over 30 years. The filter reccomends 12,500 mile intervals, but if your paranoid, do both at 12,500. AMSOIL filters are performance, and filter better, they just do. Problem is actually finding it. What you'd need is a AMSOIL filter, 4 quarts of amsoil 5W-30, and a can of engine flush. Drain about a pint of oil (like the oil filter full will be okay) and add this clear engine flush. Run your engine at 2000rpm for about 20-25 minutes. Then drain, and everything will come out, all the wax and **** from natural oil. Then you can add your wonderful AMSOIL and filter. THis really is good stuff, but I had to go online and find a local distributor, which is okay. I also use a AMSOIL air filter because its a oiled foam, filters better and lets twice the air of paper ones (notice dirtbikes use foam filters.) if you cant get a amsoil air filter, the next best is K&N. Its a gauze, and works fantastic. Use 5W-30 because thats what your engine is designed for. 10W-30 is fine but check your weather first, like if you live in a cold place, I'm okay, i live in atlanta.
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Old 08-08-2004, 08:24 AM
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Default Re: Oil Question: (EM1VtecSi)

1 never really liked synthetic oil with higher milage cars. I find that it tends to burn too much oil. My theory as long as you keep up on your oil changes everything will be fine. Dont wait more than 3k miles and you should have an oil related isssue.

2. And you can pretty much change your oil after how any amount of milage. Sometimes when I beat on my car a lot in one week Ill do an oil change even though Ive one driven like 800 miles

3.I also like Fram oil filters. Only $3 and have the nice grip and just as good as stock filters
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Old 08-08-2004, 09:04 AM
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i switched to syn about 200 miles ago. Did a regualr oil change but instead of regualr oil I just put syn in (mobil 5w30). She runs fine now, not that I can tell a difference, but hopefully it will help in the long run.
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Old 08-08-2004, 09:28 AM
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Default Re: Oil Question: (EM1VtecSi)

yeah you can swap it out as much as you want, it's better for the eng. with new oil. the best bet is to get the Mobile 1 syn. it's what they use on the formula one cars, and in the new corvettes so that **** has to be good. and go with the Mobile 1 oil filter it has syn fibers in it just made for syn. oil.
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Old 08-08-2004, 09:46 AM
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Default Re: Oil Question: (KKVTi)

what they don't tell you is that if you top it off before you start it, you will be low on the dip stick when you start it and run it and then shut it off. due to the fact that some of the oil gets stuck in the oil filter,so that's why to top it off after you start it also when you put on the oil fillter you want to make sure that the oil gasket isn't left on the block, cuz if the oil gasket is left on the block when you put the new filter on, it will start to leak and you'll blow your motor if you don't notice it right away. on a D15,16 its a total of 3.5 qts.
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Old 08-08-2004, 09:47 AM
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Default Re: Oil Question: (civtegra_hybrid)

LOL, where the hell do some of you guys get your info from? So much nonsense in this post. Head over to http://www.bobistheoilguy.com , read around, check out the forums. Lots of information about everything oil related there.
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Old 08-08-2004, 09:54 AM
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Default Re: Oil Question: (KKVTi)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KKVTi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It would be the best if you flush your engine with some 0w20 oil for couple of minutes and then drain the engine and put in some serious synthetic like Mobil1 5w30...

The process goes like this: (taken from the OIL BIBLE by Chris Longhurst)

Drain the old oil from the oil pan... leave the old oil filter on... screw in the drain bolt (no need to change the washer)... poor in 3.8q of 0w20 oil... Start the engine and let it idle for at least 20 minutes... DO NOT DRIVE with 0w20 oil in the engine cos it might not last... after 20-30 minutes shut down the engine and let the oil get back to the pan (another 5-10 minutes)... loosen the drain plug and drain all the 0w20 oil from the pan... let it REALLY DRAIN OUT... take off the old oil filter and replace with the new one (preff. OEM)... replace the washer on the drain bolt and tighten the drain bolt securely... poor in the new synthetic Mobil1 5w30 in amount that your manual specifies (until level on the dipstick reaches MAX mark - DO NOT EXCEED THE MAX MARK)...

Start the car and check for leaks...

Start driving and drive carefully few hundred miles (like someone above said) to let all the seals and inner parts regain protection...

That's it...

0w20 oil is used to clean of the sludge that regular oil built inside the engine...

Here's the link... there's some really interesting stuff there...

http://www.chris-longhurst.com....html</TD></TR></TABLE>

instead of gettin' 0w20, just get some Automatic Transmission Fluid, take your old oil filter off and pour what oil is in it out and then reinstall it, and put the ATF in there and drive around town for about 30 minutes or so and then drain it all out.
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Old 08-08-2004, 10:03 AM
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Default Re: Oil Question: (DSeriesBKilla)

damn all i guess people just have there own way to do ****... honestly what i would do just so you can get rid of all the oil .. most anyways.... drain your oil HOT do a quick run on the freeway and drain it and let it sit for like an hour whil edraining and put your new oil in and you might need a little over 4 quarts
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Old 08-08-2004, 09:15 PM
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Default Re: Oil Question: (ShowTymers619)

heres my take: mobil1 30wt. oils and fram oil filters suck.

go to autozone and find the "made in germany" castrol syntec 0w-30. it doesnt have the energy conserving label like mobil1 5w-30 has. its "porsche approved" unlike mobil1 5w-30. its is an ACEA A3 motor oil for high performance engines unlike mobil1 5w-30. its has a higher high temperature/high shear number, higher flashpoint, thicker viscosity at 100C, higher viscosity index, and to top it all off it has a lower pour point than mobil1 5w-30.

basically this oil will outperform mobil1 5w and 10w-30 in all aspects.
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Old 08-08-2004, 11:55 PM
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1. umm i believe when your engine has higher miles on it, u bump it up to 10w30 i might be wrong but that is what i have always been told. you will be okay switching to synthetic

2. its okay to change your oil early

3. oem is most of the time always best
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Old 08-09-2004, 01:01 AM
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Default Re: Oil Question: (ejprimo)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ejprimo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">heres my take: mobil1 30wt. oils and fram oil filters suck.

go to autozone and find the "made in germany" castrol syntec 0w-30. it doesnt have the energy conserving label like mobil1 5w-30 has. its "porsche approved" unlike mobil1 5w-30. its is an ACEA A3 motor oil for high performance engines unlike mobil1 5w-30. its has a higher high temperature/high shear number, higher flashpoint, thicker viscosity at 100C, higher viscosity index, and to top it all off it has a lower pour point than mobil1 5w-30.

basically this oil will outperform mobil1 5w and 10w-30 in all aspects.</TD></TR></TABLE>


lol... Mobil does not suck... Vipers, Corvettes, and the McLaren Mercedese F1 team to name a few, wouldn't use them otherwise. the only diff between the two oils you're talking about is the cold weight. this particular castrol is a 0w which means it has a lower pour point (-47 celcius vs. -40 celcius for a 5w oil) that's pretty fuckn cold... I should know, I live in saskatchewan, canada. with regards to the flash point and all that other **** you mentioned (not saying it's not important) it's pretty much the same for the both of them. they're both 30 weights at operating temperature and I"m sure they have identical viscosities at 100 celcius as well. I don't have proof and I"m skeptical as to wether you do to prove me wrong. oh, and another thing... the ACEA is the equivelant of the API. ACEA is european and API is north american (API=american petroleum institute... ACEA= something in french, I can't remember)
If you have a new engine or a well built engine like a HONDA and you're a performance enthusiest... use "A" synthetic that has been certified by ILSAC (can't remember what it stands for) and has an API rating that should say SL(it will be SM shortly). All synthetics are good, Pennzoil, Castrol, Mobil, Esso(or Exxon in the US I think), QS, etc. I am, however, skeptical of Amsoil. I've heard that they havn't been tested by ILSAC. they "say" that their oil meets ILSAC requirements but they refuse to let their product be tested. I know of an independant test that was done with Amsoil and it was found to have exsessive amounts of phosphorus in it, that means it corrodes the engine from the inside. 25,000 MILES between oil changes!!!!!!!!!!! **** right off, not on my car.
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Old 08-09-2004, 10:25 AM
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Default Re: Oil Question: (cygnusX1)

yeah and its also the factory fill for the mistubshi evolution.

but wait check this out:http://theoildrop.server101.co...00000

after 1,125 miles on mobil1 10w-30 it turned into a 20 weight oil?? man that sucks!!

yes, mobil1 is the ****! it cannot even say in grade for 3000 miles. when your oil becomes a 20 weight you get mad horsepower, yO!
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Old 08-09-2004, 10:41 AM
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Default Re: Oil Question: (EM1VtecSi)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EM1VtecSi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok, 3 simple questions.

1. I want to run on synthetic oil now on my 99 civic si with 76k miles. Will this be alright bcuz of the mileage, or should i stay with the reg 5w30 im currently running?

2. I just changed my oil about 300-400 miles ago, and i dont want to wait the 3k+ miles to switch to synthetic, so would it be alright to change my oil this early after the previous change?

3. Is it alright to use a K&N oil filter, or should i buy an OEM honda one, an dif so can i jsut get those at the local honda dealership, bcuz i only saw fram and k&n at wal-mart. </TD></TR></TABLE>

1. Synthetic oil should work fine. reg oil should also work fine, i just prefer to use synthetic for long term purposes and incase i can't change it every 3k it'll last alright for 1-1.5k more miles. Older cars as in mid-early 80s cars it is a concern to switch to synthetic b/c of the seals of the oilpan, some tend to deteriorate (not sure why, i read about it happening somewhere..forgot where though)

2. Should work perfectly except you'll be wasting a little money on the oil that's currently in the engine.

3. I stick with oem, but i think they all work the same, i just like to have the comfort of having genuine honda oil filters. Either one should do the job just fine though.

EDIT: It costs me about $31 to change my syn oil every time, if your concerned about cost

breakdown:
$25 for mobile 1 5w30 ( 5qt jug from wal-mart )
$6 for filter/washer from honda




Modified by Sijray21 at 1:21 PM 8/10/2004


Modified by Sijray21 at 1:21 PM 8/10/2004
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Old 08-09-2004, 10:57 AM
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just dont change it, i have my stock oil.
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Old 08-10-2004, 09:18 AM
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Default Re: Oil Question: (cygnusX1)

cygnusX1,
so are you saying basically that all the major syns are equal?, i've been using Valv synpow on my black 96 civ. But i switched only on a recommendation from a friend with Evo. I know i probably shoudn't talk to the dark side but oh well. Some people might disagree but i don't know of any differences between Penz, Valv, QuakeS, Mobil1, Castol, ESo etc. does anyone else feel the same way or are there ones that you just wouldnt use in your rig?
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Old 08-10-2004, 10:05 AM
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Default Re: Oil Question: (freeloader)

all synthetics are not equal. some synthetic basestocks are hydrocracked, some are PAO, and some are esters.

Originally Posted by cygnusX1
I know of an independant test that was done with Amsoil and it was found to have exsessive amounts of phosphorus in it, that means it corrodes the engine from the inside.
the reason that amsoil is not an API certified oil is b/c it contains too much anti-wear additives mainly ZDDP.

all oils that are API certified contains less than 1000ppm of zinc and phosphorus. (anti-wear additives)

Originally Posted by cygnusX1
I am, however, skeptical of Amsoil. I've heard that they havn't been tested by ILSAC. they "say" that their oil meets ILSAC requirements but they refuse to let their product be tested.
any oil labeled as ILSAC GF-3 are "energy conserving" motor oils. amsoil is not an "energy conserving" oil so they will not satisfy ILSAC requirements but it sure will meet the wear requirements.

ACEA performance tests are more stringents than the API and ILSAC tests. hence, every oil on the shelf is an API oil but not all are ACEA certified.

according to ACEA requirements:

A1 Fuel Economy Petrol:
mobil1 5w/10w-30, valvoline synpower 5w-30, QS syn. 5w-30, castrol syntec 5w-30, etc.

A3 High performance and/or extended drain:
redline 5w-30, amsoil 5w-30, castrol syntec 0w-30, bmw hp syn. 5w-30

all ACEA A3 motor oils will have a high temperature high shear number greater than 3.5. all ACEA A1 motor oils will have a high temperature high shear number somewhere between 2.9-3.4.

personally i prefer a high performance oil. are you using a fuel economy oil? are you looking for superior protection or better gas mileage?

not all 30 weight motor oil are the same exact viscosity. there is a specific range that a motor oil viscosity has to fall into in order to be clasified as a 30 wt. oil (9.3-12.49 cst @100C). all ACEA A1 motor oils fall into the lower end of the spectrum closer to 20 weight motor oils. all ACEA A3 motor oils fall into the higher end of the spectrum closer to 40 weight motor oils.

Originally Posted by cygnusX1
they're both 30 weights at operating temperature and I"m sure they have identical viscosities at 100 celcius as well. I don't have proof and I"m skeptical as to wether you do to prove me wrong.
the viscosity of mobil1 5w-30 is 10cst @100C.

while the viscosity of the german castrol syntec 0w-30 is 12.1cst @100C.


ill give you a short list of 30wt. oils that meet ACEA A3 specs (specifically MB 229.3, excluding 40wt. oils): can you find your motor oil on this list?

Amsoil SAE 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil (mail order)
Amsoil 10W-30 Synthetic (mail order)
Amsoil Series 3000 5W-30 Heavy Duty Diesel (mail order)
Castrol Formula SLX 0W-30 (german syntec 0w-30, autozone)
Castrol TXT SOFTEC PLUS SAE 5W-30 (bmw high performance syn. 5w-30)
Esso Ultron 0W-30 fuel economy
Fuchs Titan SuperSyn SL SAE 0W-30
Havoline Synthetic DS 0W-30
Pentosin Pentospeed 0W-30 VS
Schaeffer Micron Moly 5W-30 (mail order)
Schaeffer Supreme 7000 5W-30, 10W-30 (mail order)
Shell Helix Ultra 5W-30
Valvoline SynPower MXL 0W-30
Veedol SYNTRON SAE 0W-30

all ACEA A3 motor oils on this list will have a high temperature high shear number greater than 3.5. all ACEA A1 motor oils will have a high temperature high shear number somewhere between 2.9-3.4.

mobil1 5w-30 hths is 3.0

german castrol syntec 0w-30 hths is 3.6

and just because an auto manufacturer uses mobil1 as their factory fill doesnt mean its the best oil available. sometimes auto manufactures uses an oil that comes from the lowest bidder. and exxonmobil is the largerst oil company in the world so their can sell their oils at a very low price to a car companies.



Modified by ejprimo at 11:22 AM 8/10/2004
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Old 08-11-2004, 11:34 PM
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Default Re: Oil Question: (ejprimo)

whoa...........................

very good points... you obviously know a **** of a lot more stuff about oils than I do. However... for the road, or the average driver, this stuff is irrelevent and quite frankly a headach to remember(its all interesting and I'm glad you shared it though). but all the tech you just vomited on to our monitors is best left for the engineers for enurance and F1 racing. I think HT members will be doing more good than harm by using "a" synthetic oil as opposed to conventional. to answer a question that was asked a bit higher up... do'nt worry so much about who it's made by(there are differences) but what weight you're using for your climate. where I live is classified as an extreme driving condition. 30 celcius plus in the summer, -40 and sometimes below in the winter. then again there are no ideal driving conditions especially since this is a honda performance forum and members here have been known to occasionally hit redline, which isn't very "ideal".
If your driving habits(in a street legal honda) can reduce a "shitty" synthetic oil like Mobil1, into a toxic, arromatic gel, then you either spend way too much time at your local road course or you're a fuckn idiot.
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Old 08-12-2004, 08:17 AM
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Default Re: Oil Question: (cygnusX1)

Good point there. For most, I guess we can tell the people that know little to just use "a" synthetic. It actually works out better to use synthetic in addition to better protection. Example: I use AMSOIL. Reccomended filter change 12,500 miles and oil 25,000 miles. I won't go this far, but if this stuff is 5 times the price, I mean I changed my regular pennzoil at 3,000 miles, so it still ends up costing less for me and my habits. Also, Amsoil will actually lubricate well at temperatures as low as -64degrees farenheit, which is amazing. So if you live in severe weather, I reccomend this stuff.

And to the comment of it containing too much phosporous...
Before you start using synthetic over regular oil, ya gotta do a engine flush to get out the parrafins left by natural oil, or have some place really clean out the engine with perhaps a pressurized internal cleansing. I can vouch for a guy with a chrysler, new, every 25k miles, took of the amsoil filter and replaced it full of oil (thats not a oil drain, just maybe a pint). After 8 of those semi-oil changes (200,000 miles) the engine was overhauled and found to have no real wear, didn't even need new sleeves! you could still tell the crosshatching from the factory. AMSOIL is a wonderful oil, I know nothing of 'corroding from the inside out' but if a chrysler engine can go 200,000 miles, im sure a Honda 4 banger can make 400,000 miles out of it easy. I'll go do more research on this.
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