TomCat39

I posted in the engine management section and it either is dead or no one is willing to say either way.

This will be for a 95 civic CDM CX with a minime Y8/B7 motor.

I am wanting to add CKP functionality to the b7 block but maintain OBD1.

I know the only OBD1 ECU's that had a CKP sensor on the block was the 94-97 Integra P72 ECU's.

If that P72 is Chipped so you can disable sensors you don't need and then tune it for the D series motor, will it run the motor well? Or is this a fubar idea?

From my understanding the sensor in the dizzy has accuracy problems at high RPM and I am planning on taking the rpm up to 8000 maybe even 8500 Naturally aspirated. The block CKP will help out with the timing issues at high RPM but on the D's was only available after OBD2 as far as I know.

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

there is no reason you couldn't use a b series ecu when chipped. youll be adjusting values to your own needs, so the fact that is b series is irrelevant.

tony_2018

I concur, if its chip than a d-series basemap can go on there. Definitely will work.

TomCat39

Good deal, thanks guys.

HondaPartsHero

Correction though its the CFK sensor (crank fluctuation) and it was on 96-01 Integra P72's (although 00-01 had immobilizers so its not recommended). No OBD1 Integra or OBD1 ECU at all used a block mounted crank sensor. No OBD2 ECU's can be chipped for any reasonable amount of money.

TomCat39

Thanks HondaPartsHero.

The OEM parts site showed the CFK wheel on the crank in the 94 Integra, so I assumed it was a b-series obd1 thing. Of course I didn't look down in the list to see it's not there and #13 is... While in the image #13 is greyed out.... Go figure.

CRANKSHAFT - PISTON for 1994 Acura INTEGRA SEDAN

Part 14 illuminated is what threw me off.

Actually was getting my hopes up..... C`est la vie.

So based off of this, the only way to add a CFK sensor is either go OBD2 or a full Engine Management system like Hondata 300 etc?

tony_2018

94 is an obd1 engine, specifically 94-95. 96-01 was obd2.

TomCat39

I was under the impression the 94-97 Integra is OBD1 while 98+ is OBD2. Then civics is 92-95 OBD1.

Is it only 94 and 95 that is OBD1 on Integras?

I've also updated my thread in the Engine Management/Tuning forum but not sure if there will be any response so thought it might be prudent to put the question forward here in this thread too.

\\-----------------------------------vvv-----------------------------------//

I've learned I erred on thinking the P72 OBD1 Integra ECU utilized a CFK sensor found on the cranks of OBD2 Honda engines.

So I guess the question(s) to the experienced Chrome tuners is(are)....

Can OBD1 chipped ECU's be programmed to utilize a CFK sensor?

If yes, would this be in addition to the CKP sensor in the dizzy or in replacement of the CKP?

0HAMOTORSPORTS

There are no OBD1 civic or integra ECU's that use a CKF sensor. CKF sensors are OBD2 specific (96+ integra). OBD2 ECU's use CKF sensor feedback and compare it with the TDC/CYP/CKP readings to detect misfire.

94-95 Integra do not have a CKF sensor and use an OBD1 ECU
96+ Integra do have a CKF sensor and use an OBD2 ECU

TomCat39

tony_2018

I don't think it can be programmed in.

TomCat39

That's what I'm thinking too, just looking to confirm from someone with experience tuning, in particular Chrome as that is the cheap method I'm headed towards for this build.

rick_rabies

question is...why? running fancy coil packs on each plug? those are cool but a pain to get to work

0HAMOTORSPORTS

Crome does not have the ability to read nor use a CKF sensor as the OBD1 ECU codebase does not have CKF controls. OBD1 ECU's also do NOT have the circuitry to read CKF input. CKF circuitry and programming is only present in OBD2 ECU's.

TomCat39

Awesome thank you. That's what I thought but not experienced enough to know.

If one is to add the hardware to the block it means a complete engine management system like Hondata S300 or AEM etc etc.

So my little minime will just have to deal with 8000-8500 rpm with just the dizzy. Hopefully the variances at that rpm isn't to bad.

Thanks again everyone.

Just in case you didn't gleen the reasoning from my post above.

From my understanding the CKP sensor in the distributor isn't accurate at high rpm (what range constitutes high I'm not sure) so timing can vary and be off for tuning. And as I understand even just a couple of degrees can have serious implications on running the motor. Either in less power/efficiency to detonation and blowing up the motor.

Simply with the inaccuracy I think the tune has to stay on the conservative side for safety of the motor, which in turn will mean not getting every little bit out of it. C`est la vie.

0HAMOTORSPORTS

You will not be able to run a CKF sensor with Hondata S300 either as the OBD1 ECU it will need to be installed in does not have the CKF circuitry. The S300 allows logging of analog and digital inputs, but not a square-wave signal that is provided by a CKF sensor.

The AEM EMS system however, may be able to accomplish what you are trying to do using the http://www.aemelectronics.com/?q=pro...AEM EPM module <- click link for more info

tony_2018

I was actually thinking the same thing, a stand-alone ecu.

94EG8

You're not going to make power up that high in the RPM range anyway.

TomCat39

Not with the stock cam I know.

That is the one upgrade I am planning on shelling out 400-500 on is a new Crower camshaft and spring/retainer package for the Y8 head. And is why I'm looking between 1000-1500 for the rebuild, depending on whether I need oversized pistons or not.

The Crower 63441Y is rated to 7700 rpm with stock idle lobes, then the 63442Y is the 3/4 race cam so will likely have the lopy idle. I don't think I'd want to go any higher than that though. So I see the need to go to either 8000 or 8500 rpm rev limit. I just won't have the 11.62:1 compression ratio I originally thought I'd be dealing with instead it should be more in the range of 10.65:1 with a near perfect quench/squish area of 0.039".

To allow a touch more breath-ability, I got really lucky last Friday and found a 92 prelude that still had it's H22 throttle body on it so I also have a stock Honda 60mm throttle body to mate up with a plenum ported Y8 IM.

Overall it will look like an all stock Y8/B7 minime with short ram and cheap ebay 2.25" 4-2-1 header but inside will be a little but more pep which I believe will need the extra rpm.

94EG8

7700RPM is about the absolute maximum RPM you're going to keep making power at. I can see setting the rev limiter at 8 grand, but anything beyond that is not a good idea.

For what you're going to have into it you could be into a stock B-series swap.

tony_2018

So what happens if OP decides to use coil packs? Oh wait, it still relies on the sensors in the distributor.....

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

I've tried explaining this to him. I really have. "I'm going to build a D series" is the most moronic thing any Honda owner can think.

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

/\ unless done cheaply, like the beast7. d series are great for cheap fun times. d16's are very capable of 200whp on shitty junkyard turbo kits, and blowing them up only sets you back 2-500$

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

The biggest thing that the D15Beast guy saved money on was his head work. For the average person, who doesn't have a hook up, that's $900. He got all of 150 WHP. I have no problem with someone slapping a properly sized turbo on a D series and making 200. I think it's silly to spend money on the motor itself, though. Spendig $200 on a cam, another $150 on springs and retainers, another $900 on head porting (and that's not counting the cost of new gaskets and head bolt replacements, which needs to be done because the head came off...), and those are specific costs - I'm not even getting into things that would be needed regardless of direction, like tuning.

At what point does someone need to stop themselves and realize how silly spending that much money on a D series is? By the time you're done with all that, you could have boosted and gotten twice the gain for the same price. You could have B swapped, and gotten the same gain, with more room for future gains, for the same price. The only number that should matter when building a car is reliable horsepower per dollar.

It's not my money. It doesn't hurt my wallet when someone wastes their money. If someone has a hookup, and can get $900 worth of head work for free, then **** it, go for it. If you're like the rest of us, though, building an NA D series is just dumb.

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

i dont disagree, ive never built a d series with anything other than a random concoction of oem parts