Rok_Stok

Just put in brand new Honda pads ('94 Civic Si) on all the wheels, and the rear brakes are dragging bad. My car's slower and it's hard on my engine/clutch. The pedal is "squooshier". After driving around the block my rear rotors were so hot.

soulimports

frozen caliper? were u able to push the piston back easily when replacing the pads? squooshier pedal means u have air in the system tho

Rok_Stok

Yeah the rear caliper pistons went back in their bores fine with the cube tool. I didn't have air in the system before, and I didn't open any brake lines or anything for air to get in. What's going on here?

Rok_Stok

It can't roll down my driveway in neutral. Could the thicker pads force fluid back into the master cylinder when I depress the brakes? Would having too much fluid cause my pedal to be "softer"?

Rok_Stok

**** dude. I can't even push my car backwards in neutral with the e-brake off.

soulimports

nope only air in the system can cause a mushy pedal cuz fluid can not be compressed and air can. did u get grease on the pads and rotors? cuz if u did they would grab when u apply the brakes but idk about dragging did u check the parking brake cable?

Rok_Stok

No I didn't check the parking brake cable. I know that a bad master cylinder can cause a pedal to sink to the floor from an internal fluid leak (where fluid leaks into the booster and is burn in the engine) and there aren't any external leaks. I guess squooshy was a bad term, because there's definately not any air in the system.

My fluid level is at MAX, no more and no less, so I guess that eliminates a leak.


Modified by Rok_Stok at 9:08 PM 10/2/2008

Rok_Stok

bump

davefromPA

two simple questions.

1.) are you absolutely sure you have the right pads

2.) is it possible you put the front pads on the rear?

Rok_Stok

Yes they're right, I ordered them from Majestic and they fit like a dream.

The front pads are twice the size of the rears, but I MIGHT have figured out the problem....

Two of my caliper pins (R and L side bottom caliper pins) have seized into their bores, from rust, dirt and lack of grease. I was able to get the pins out on the R side caliper, grease them with Honda grease, and reinsert them. Then I put everything back together and the wheel on that side is turning now. The seized pin on the L side caliper hasn't come out yet, it's in there REALLY good. So I'll try and get that out here in a bit.

This may be the problem, but I won't know for sure until it's all put back together. My guess is that the seized caliper pin was keeping the thicker pads held on the rotor..... Chime in, this is good stuff. I'm taking a brakes class right now and he has never mentioned this problem.

instructor74

I have done a boat load of rear brake overhauls on the 92-95 civic si. Her is a brief discription of how to get that pin out without braking the caliper.

items you should have:
1. brake cleaner
2. propane torch
3. synthetic caliper lube
4. assortment of hand tools

1st do your self a favor and go to your local auto parts store and get a slide pin hardware kit. it should contain 2 slide pins, 2 rubber boots, and 2 bolts. You will need 2 kits. Also pick up synthetic caliper lube I really recommend the ceramic base stuff it holds up a lot longer.

2nd
Remove the 2 bolts from the slide pins on the caliper and swing the caliper out of the way, now remove the mounting bracket from the car the slide pins will be in it still.

3rd
You now need to Lock the bracket in a vice grab hold of the stuck slide in with vice grips. fire up your propane torch and start to heat the bracket all around the stuck slide pin. As things get hot the pin should start to turn enough that you can work it out.

4th
Once things cool clean the bores out with brake cleaner dry well . **Important** there are groves inside the bore that the new rubber boots must seat into to help keep water out. Put a small amount of your synthetic lube in the bore and install the boots. apply a thin coat of lube to the pins slide them into the bore and seat the other end of the boot in the groove on the end of the pin. work the pins back an forth a few times ** some lube might be pressed out doing this that's okay** the key is to force out excess lube and make sure the boots are seated so no dirt can enter.

5th
Reinstall is the rev of the removal smile you now have working brakes.

Rok_Stok

Well it sounds like this is the problem for sure. But I don't have a torch, the parts store is far away, and all I'm using is a flathead, hammer, WD-40, and a 17mm box wrench to turn the pin. With all that and some prayers I think it should be out by the end of the day. Oh yeah and I have a spare pin kit in my garage! (for a Prelude but the parts are the same).

But is this the same problem that was happening for you to overhaul the pins?

itsmejto

slacken the parking brake cable, twist the pistons with the tool till the pads just fit correctly, grease the slide bolts and pad contact points, check the pistons and calipers move freely. Tighten the parking brake cable one click, ajust the nut till both brakes drag just a little (rub) you may have to yank on it hard on the cable to center the cable then return it to one click so both rub the same.

instructor74

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rok_Stok &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

But is this the same problem that was happening for you to overhaul the pins?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes I don't know what it is about the rear calper on this era of civic but those dam pins are always siezing up. I have had my 93 civic si since new and have replaced countless hardware kits. I am very particular when it comes to my car so once a year right around inspection time I unbolt the caliper remove the slide pins clean and relube them so far since i switch over to the ceramic based lube I havent had any siezed pins. The nice thing about doing the servce work it only takes a few mins to do and the brakes always work right

Rok_Stok

...Still trying to get it out...

I wish I had a torch. I really don't want to call a parts store.

Rok_Stok

Autozone was going to have me a new bracket by Tuesday. I said screw Tuesday (not really). Prayed again and went to work with my WD40, 17mm box wrench, flathead and hammer. It just got easier and easier, now it's out finally and it looks like crap. So I'm going to sand it down a little, put Honda grease on it, and use a new boot.

Then I'm going to check the front pins, then it should be good to go, thanks for the help. I'll keep this updated, not like anyone cares, but for reference.

Rok_Stok

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by instructor74 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yes I don't know what it is about the rear calper on this era of civic but those dam pins are always siezing up. I have had my 93 civic si since new and have replaced countless hardware kits. I am very particular when it comes to my car so once a year right around inspection time I unbolt the caliper remove the slide pins clean and relube them so far since i switch over to the ceramic based lube I havent had any siezed pins. The nice thing about doing the servce work it only takes a few mins to do and the brakes always work right </TD></TR></TABLE>

That's awesome that you've been the only owner of your '93 Si. I'm the 3rd ownder of my '94 Si, but at least I know it's in good hands now. I've only had it a year and that was the first time I've done the pads.

So do what ^this guy says and service the caliper pins everytime you change the pads, it's definately worth it, and a 50¢ packet of grease is all it takes (unless you have a seized one like I did).

sde780

Could you possibly post pics of what pins you're talking about?

Rok_Stok

Honda caliper pin with [dust] boot attatched. This is what connects the caliper onto the caliper bracket, via a bolt that screws in that hole, and slides back and forth in a cylinder inside the caliper bracket, there are two of these on each caliper. When you press on the brakes, these allow the caliper to push against the outer brake pad, while the caliper piston pushes against the inner brake pad. These are only on floating brake calipers. (All Honda disc brakes use floating calipers except some Type-Rs that came with Brembos, and the Acura TL Type-S).




Modified by Rok_Stok at 7:59 PM 10/3/2008

sde780

^ thanks for the pic! I lubed up that and the bolt that goes into it

itsmejto

lube the pin, NOT the bolt. A small dab of blue locktite is better on the bolt.
Insert the rubber boot into the casting before you push the bolt in, it's easier to get it in correctly this way.

Rok_Stok

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itsmejto &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lube the pin, NOT the bolt. A small dab of blue locktite is better on the bolt.
Insert the rubber boot into the casting before you push the bolt in, it's easier to get it in correctly this way.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

x2

B18C5-EH2

I just wanted to make a general observation that the original poster whom is asking for advice actually seems to know more about it than your average guy.



If you can find Akebono reman calipers (sold under the name Pro ACT) online they are amazing. Akebono is an OE (really, not like the BS local parts stores try to sell) manufacturer for Honda and their calipers come loaded with brake pads already and they have all the hardware, shims, etc.

I know it's not the cheap solution but IMO if you can't unfreeze one side IMO it's ideal to go ahead and replace both rear calipers.

My wife's 1992 Si had the same issue, only the piston would not push back in on the right rear caliper. I replaced that one with a genuine Honda reman, and about 6 months later realized that the left side (which was completely easy to push in and I removed/greased pins at the time of replacing right caliper and pads) brake pads were much thinner than the right side. Evidently the left rear caliper took a dump sometime shortly after I replaced the frozen right caliper.

I try to do any brake work in pairs.