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I have a D16Y7 engine in my 2000 hatch. 182,XXX miles.
Burning oil pretty bad; it recently started misfiring on all cylinders. CEL flashing like a Christmas light.
I checked my plugs and tubes - see attached pics for the results of that research.
After looking at these, times up - I need a new engine.
Last year I put a D16Y8 tranny in, so I'm looking to stay with D-series. If I swap the engine with a different model, what else do I need to swap? What do I need to look for in an engine? What do I need to avoid at all costs?
Please provide suggestions, tips, warnings, instructions, etc.
I'm looking to do this right.
Spark plugs looking cruddy will not indicate a "Bad engine", it just shows symptoms.
What other research have you done? what other tests, diagnostics, etc.
Also, judging by the amount of **** all over those plugs (Threads , around the washer, etc.) looks like much maintenance hasn't been done...
When was the last time you did a basic tuneup?
I kinda doubt you killed a stock D series in 187k miles, as this would be a pretty large feat.
You really just need a D series longblock. A Y7 ECU (no knock sensor) will allow you to run any 88-00 D series. Just swap over your manifolds and required sensors/components.
Y7's in good shape are everywhere...and they're cheap. The most simple swap would be a Y7 with manifolds already on it....from a car that has the same type of trans (auto or manual) as your car does.
multiple cylinder misfire can be ignition related. based on your awesome plugs, id start the testing with your coil/icm, and replace your plugs and wires. if you do need to swap the motor, no money lost, the wires and plugs will work in the next one.
Tests? None, honestly. There's black crap all over the back of my car, I smoke when I've got my foot in it, and the consistent CEL. A mechanic buddy put the diagnostic tool on it and told me there is a misfire on 1, 2, 3, and randomly on 4. That's what prompted me to do what I'm doing now. He cleared the CEL and it came back on about 2wks later.
In Nov 14, I installed new plugs and wires
I do regular oil changes (just under 3,000 miles) using Kendall synth blend, new oil filter every time.
I put a new Cold Air Intake and Filter on because the old short-ram had a hole in it from the previous owner.
New battery... June? 14
What else do I do then for a tune-up?
B serious:
...you'd be surprised by my powers.
eghatch9295:
Aahh... I haven't gotten a chance to check the dizzy/dizzy cap and rotor. What do you mean by "coil" and "icm"? I'm on it, whatever I need to do, just don't know what to do. Still a new guy.
How can I clean the crud out?
I'm fairly certain my headgasket and rings are toasted. What does this mean for my next steps?
Last edited by Stuominous; 10-05-2015 at 10:47 AM.
Reason: Carat parsed message
Try a compression test. I would buy a new (not rent) a tester. They're fairly inexpensive at any parts store. IIRC, mine was $20.
Do a compression test with DRY rings (don't add oil to the cylinder via the plug hole).
A compression test will tell you if your compression rings, cylinders, and/or head gasket is toasted.
Your plugs do not indicate that any of that stuff is bad, however. What they do imply is that you may have a leaking valve cover gasket or have water inside the spark plug boots. The resultant oil or water inside the plug tubes may be the cause of your misfire.
If you buy a new distributor, it comes with an igniter and icm.
multiple cylinder misfire can be ignition related. based on your awesome plugs, id start the testing with your coil/icm, and replace your plugs and wires. if you do need to swap the motor, no money lost, the wires and plugs will work in the next one.
Originally Posted by B serious
I kinda doubt you killed a stock D series in 187k miles, as this would be a pretty large feat.
You really just need a D series longblock. A Y7 ECU (no knock sensor) will allow you to run any 88-00 D series. Just swap over your manifolds and required sensors/components.
Y7's in good shape are everywhere...and they're cheap. The most simple swap would be a Y7 with manifolds already on it....from a car that has the same type of trans (auto or manual) as your car does.
Originally Posted by purgat0ry
Spark plugs looking cruddy will not indicate a "Bad engine", it just shows symptoms.
What other research have you done? what other tests, diagnostics, etc.
Also, judging by the amount of **** all over those plugs (Threads , around the washer, etc.) looks like much maintenance hasn't been done...
When was the last time you did a basic tuneup?
Finally got a chance to do stuff:
New cap and rotor - the previous were shot to Hades. Twice.
New plugs and wires.
Put a fuel pressure regulator and gauge on. Got it up to 35 now.
CEL is cleared. Runs cleaner and smoother now. Thanks for all the help.
I'm not out of the woods yet. I'm still toying with the idea of swapping the engine because of massive oil burnage. I'm going to need new engine mounts, intake, and how do I deal with the PCM/ECU? Still some work to be done....
if bucks are tight just window weld them mounts.
new cheapo ebay rear mount plus weld advisable b/c it's a bitch.
hopefully not going there again in this lifetime.
A compression test will tell you if your compression rings, cylinders, and/or head gasket is toasted.
A compression test MAY tell you what is wrong. It's not a guaranteed indicator. *fixed* (Ask me how I know )
Originally Posted by B serious
Your plugs do not indicate that any of that stuff is bad, however.
Plugs put in Nov 14, not even 4 days later and they are that goobered with burnt soot and they don't indicate there is a problem?? It's only November 18th right now. I disagree with your statement. This thing is putting a significant amount of oil into the cylinders to cause that much soot on the business side of the plugs.
Originally Posted by B serious
What they do imply is that you may have a leaking valve cover gasket or have water inside the spark plug boots.
How is a valve cover gasket going to put oil into the combustion chamber? Or the spark plug tubes? The tube seals might let the oil into the top of the tubes, not the valve cover gasket.
Originally Posted by B serious
The resultant oil or water inside the plug tubes may be the cause of your misfire.
If you buy a new distributor, it comes with an igniter and icm.
True, anything that can short the wires out can cause the misfire, agreed.
OP, a Tune up is typically new spark plugs, new wires, new distributor cap and a new distributor rotor. That's the basic tune up parts list. After that, then you throw in Coil and Igniter (Ignition Control Module).
Like I said above, only 4 days and your brand new plugs are totally coated with soot is not a good sign. I see it is burning lots of oil. And in most cases, smoking mainly when you get on it is a sign of a ring problem.
Also just so you know, if the cause of the oil consumption is your rings, there is a chance your compression numbers will still be high on the "dry" test as the rings are causing a wet test already. The easy way to tell if this is happening is right after you pull all the plugs out, lower each cylinder to the bottom and shine a flashlight into the cylinder, if you see oily wetness surrounding the outside edge of the piston then you are actually doing a wet test not by choice and will typically have high compression.
Still do the compression test but check the cylinders for these visual warning signs and report back your findings and compression numbers.
Of course, this is also assuming those pictures are your brand new plugs after 4 days. And it's only showing 3 of 4. The third being the really bad one.
A compression test MAY tell you what is wrong. It's not a guaranteed indicator. *fixed* (Ask me how I know )
Plugs put in Nov 14, not even 4 days later and they are that goobered with burnt soot and they don't indicate there is a problem?? It's only November 18th right now. I disagree with your statement. This thing is putting a significant amount of oil into the cylinders to cause that much soot on the business side of the plugs.
How is a valve cover gasket going to put oil into the combustion chamber? Or the spark plug tubes? The tube seals might let the oil into the top of the tubes, not the valve cover gasket.
True, anything that can short the wires out can cause the misfire, agreed.
OP, a Tune up is typically new spark plugs, new wires, new distributor cap and a new distributor rotor. That's the basic tune up parts list. After that, then you throw in Coil and Igniter (Ignition Control Module).
Like I said above, only 4 days and your brand new plugs are totally coated with soot is not a good sign. I see it is burning lots of oil. And in most cases, smoking mainly when you get on it is a sign of a ring problem.
Also just so you know, if the cause of the oil consumption is your rings, there is a chance your compression numbers will still be high on the "dry" test as the rings are causing a wet test already. The easy way to tell if this is happening is right after you pull all the plugs out, lower each cylinder to the bottom and shine a flashlight into the cylinder, if you see oily wetness surrounding the outside edge of the piston then you are actually doing a wet test not by choice and will typically have high compression.
Still do the compression test but check the cylinders for these visual warning signs and report back your findings and compression numbers.
Of course, this is also assuming those pictures are your brand new plugs after 4 days. And it's only showing 3 of 4. The third being the really bad one.
Sorry for the confusion - the pictured plugs were put in November 2014. I replaced all of the stuff suggested by a tune up November 12, 2015. I cleaned the tubes, etc.
Right now everything is fine. Just burning. Runs smooth. I'll just have to wait and see what happens. I aim to do a compression test, just have to get the time.
I kinda doubt you killed a stock D series in 187k miles, as this would be a pretty large feat.
You really just need a D series longblock. A Y7 ECU (no knock sensor) will allow you to run any 88-00 D series. Just swap over your manifolds and required sensors/components.
Y7's in good shape are everywhere...and they're cheap. The most simple swap would be a Y7 with manifolds already on it....from a car that has the same type of trans (auto or manual) as your car does.
I've handled two dead ones with less than 150,000 on them. The easiest way would probably be getting one from an engine importer, but make sure the compression and camshaft are very similar to a d16y7 otherwise the ECU might get pissy.
You may be able to find a local junkyard that offers a warranty, it could save you money.
Sorry for the confusion - the pictured plugs were put in November 2014. I replaced all of the stuff suggested by a tune up November 12, 2015. I cleaned the tubes, etc.
Right now everything is fine. Just burning. Runs smooth. I'll just have to wait and see what happens. I aim to do a compression test, just have to get the time.
Ahhh, okay. Those plugs are a year old, then they look pretty darn good. Good color, not fouled, a little bit of soot for a year.
Your tune up is done and car is running fine. No new engine required. Oil consumption is pretty normal.
Honda spec is up to 1 liter every 1500 kilometers is acceptable. They will not open a motor up until it surpasses that amount. So as long as you are consuming less than 1 liter every 1500 kilometers, you have nothing to worry about.
OP: Drive your car for a while, park it and put a long piece of cardboard under engine and transmission, let idle for 10 minutes. Check cardboard for oil leaks. Shut engine off and keep cardboard under car for an hour or so and check for oil leaks.
If the engine is dirty: Get the front of your car on jacks, clean the grease and grime from the engine, transmission, engine bay and underside of hood (might as well while your at it) and look for oil leaks. As stated above you may be losing oil instead of burning it. Report back with results.
Ahhh, okay. Those plugs are a year old, then they look pretty darn good. Good color, not fouled, a little bit of soot for a year.
Your tune up is done and car is running fine. No new engine required. Oil consumption is pretty normal.
Honda spec is up to 1 liter every 1500 kilometers is acceptable. They will not open a motor up until it surpasses that amount. So as long as you are consuming less than 1 liter every 1500 kilometers, you have nothing to worry about.
I'm at about 2-3qts for 3,000 miles. I supplement with Lucas Oil Conditioner.
OP: Drive your car for a while, park it and put a long piece of cardboard under engine and transmission, let idle for 10 minutes. Check cardboard for oil leaks. Shut engine off and keep cardboard under car for an hour or so and check for oil leaks.
If the engine is dirty: Get the front of your car on jacks, clean the grease and grime from the engine, transmission, engine bay and underside of hood (might as well while your at it) and look for oil leaks. As stated above you may be losing oil instead of burning it. Report back with results.
First part's easy. I'll have to have time to clean all of the things. Plus winter is creeping and I don't have much garage. It might be awhile. I'm on it!
I'm at about 2-3qts for 3,000 miles. I supplement with Lucas Oil Conditioner.
1 liter (1.06 quarts) every 1500 kilometers (932 miles) is acceptable. Within tolerance
Originally Posted by Stuominous
First part's easy. I'll have to have time to clean all of the things. Plus winter is creeping and I don't have much garage. It might be awhile. I'm on it! Thanks!
So, I'm NOT leaking oil. Not a drop anywhere. Good for me! I'm saving the environment...
The CEL comes back on - only after starting and its cold outside (NE Ohio). After awhile it goes back off. Then comes on. Depends on the mood of my car. Still burning like a freight train, sometimes - and I do mean SOMEtimes - I lose power and it sputters. Then it gets its act back together.
I've not got the wherewithal, time, 2nd car to just rebuild, re-ring, etc... So, if I'm really going to do this new engine thing, what the heck do I do? Which engine? Everyone praises ye olde hallowed D16Z6, buuuut finding one is impossible (at least in decent condition).
So, I'm up for anything. Just throw numbers and specs at me and enlighten me with whatever you know. Open door to debate about quality, performance, pragmatism...
Pull the CEL. You say you aren't leaking oil, but are you burning it? What evidence do you have to support the notion that you need a new motor? Given how things have gone ITT, I'm going to say just stick with a Y7 - I honestly don't think you can handle what's involved in something else, nor do I think it would be a smart decision to spend the money on it, even if you thought you were up to the task.
10-05-2015, 05:14 AM
Need new engine - looking for info
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