explosive

Hey all, I hope I don't get flamed for this, but I own a 2002 Toyota Celica GT as of now, but I am thinking of getting something for track/daily driver use (my car is an auto, and is all show). So, since I am not one for domestics, I thought I would get something that I have always liked such as a Civic Del Sol. But, I want this thing to be an all-motor beast. But, I am a complete noob when it comes to Hondas, I know more about Toyotas for obvious reasons. I did a search, but only found small bits and pieces of information. Anyways, if someone could answer some of my questions, I would really appreciate it. So here goes:

First off, I must tell you all that I am set on a Del Sol, and if I have to settle for anything, it'll be a 92-95 Civic hatch (my budget is limited, and I am going to have to drive the thing around stock before I can afford a swap)...

1. What is the ideal engine to swap into a Del Sol? Is there any way I could fit in a newer H22 with the VTEC and such, and still be able to mod the engine? Or is it too big to fit some of the bolt-ons and such on. I know that if I use that engine, there is no way a turbo or supercharger could fit, but since I am going all-motor, I was thinking that I might still be able to mod the engine.

2. If I don't use the H22, what should I use? I am assuming a B-series, but which one would be the best for modding in an all-motor fashion? (if I can fit an H22 in a Del Sol and still mod it, don't bother answering this question)

3. Does it matter which trim I get as far as a Del Sol is concerned? I assume they are all fuel injected and would be able to swap another engine in easily (there is no way I could afford the Del Sol with B16A as I might am going to have 4k at the least, 6k at the most to spend).

4. When buying a used Honda, what should I look for to make sure it is a good car? I have never bought a used car before as the only one I have ever had, I got from my parents and I used that until I got my Celica, so I have no experience buying a used car whatsoever...but I am willing to learn. Also, this would be my first car with a manual transmission, so what would I have to look for to make sure that is OK (prepares for flames about not knowing how to drive a stick).

Anyways, thanks for any help you all can give me, I appreciate it a lot.

joe_bocc

You're actually pretty knowledgable for a noob!

Now I'm not totally sure about the H22 fiting, but I'm pretty sure it would work.

IMO, if you were to go with a B series engine you should consider getting a CRVTEC. This is a block from a Honda CRV (B20B/Z) with a VTEC head (B16, B18C1/5, etc.). Going this route would get you a 2.0L engine with VTEC.

Although going with a 2.2 L H22 would be nice I would rather go with the B series engine because there are far more aftermarket and OEM parts available to mix and match to get the desired power and reliability. Plus the installation of a B series engine is much more simple.

As for shopping for a used car, I in the same boat as you. Just recently started looking for a used car for the first time and don't want to get ripped off. Just remember, when shopping don't get too excited and buy the first car you see. Be patient and wait until you find whats right. If you can, consider getting a carfax report on the cars you are seriously interested. This might be able to tell you the history of the car.

nsxmatt

Well, the Del Sol is a great car but if your going for a more track only car I would consider the 92-95 hatchback or if your budget allows a 96-00 Hatch. Both are light, have tons of aftermarket support, and can accept almost any 4-cly Honda motor including the H22 with bolt-in kits. There is many trim levels also, VX and CX are the light no frills versions while the DX and SI's have more options and weight.

Everyone is gonna bash the del sol but if you like the looks and the fact you can take the top off go for it. Get a Del sol S (bare bones, light) and work from there. I personally like the Del sols and they can accept the same motors as a 92-95 Civic since they are basicly the same.

explosive

So if I got a Del Sol S (this car is going to be a daily driver too) people would bash me? Why? I like the car for the looks and the targa top.

Anyways, let me get this straight...I could put in a H22 motor no problem and still make big power numbers? Also, would I be able to put in the H22 tranny? That way the gearing would be the best for the powerband.

ace1875

ok time to put my .02s


How long after you buy the car will you swap?

since you wanna go NA always go for the base model (lightest) and build up from there it will be more responsive to mods

H22 in a civic is only possible through custom mounts and axels yes you can mod it up and add a turbo (lose the AC).

but i would go for a B series cause it will be easy in the long run cause the axels and mounts are cheaper and you can buy them from the junkyard unlike making them or buying them new.

if you decide on the B series go with a B18C1 why cause IMO it s the best application for NA and convert it from OBD2 to OBD1 via a conversion Harness (there is a deal in H-T for there members $175 for a conversion harness plus P28 chipped ECU with any program of choice!!)

If i where you i would get the 92-95 HB CX. Del Sol are not that bad but are very frustrating for me cause of cabin limitations, it might be smaller then a HB but the CX is lighter.

explosive

OK, well, I might drive this thing around for a couple months before I do a swap, depending on how much it would cost to do one. But I would say that I might delay the swap for a year at the most after I buy the car. But you seem to know a lot about this, so could you give me a ballpark estimate on how much it would cost to do a swap of different motors and all the things I would need (transmissions, misc. parts) with labor? Just wondering...

Once again, an H22 swap would be the best for me as I love the H22 (my friend has a Prelude), but if I am gonna go with a B-series, I would probably go with the B18C1 (is that the Type R engine, or am I wrong?) as that is the next best all-motor stock engine I can think of.

Cabin limitations? What do you mean? The fact that it is only a two-seater? That doesn't matter, I am single and if I need more seating room, I'll use the Celica. I am set on a Del Sol unless I just can't afford one.

ace1875

although the H22 is cheaper the mounts like HCP cost about $500 -$600 the axels depends on were you get them from might rang from $200 - $600 depending on the custom manufacturer. Low profile radiator fan, stronger suspension for the heavy *** motor.

So it will come around the same figure as a B series motor the reason why i was a B series is cause if the axels break or something happens to them you can get them replaced a lot easier just buy them from Autozone or pepboys etc...

if you had a H22 and they break or malfunction you will be out of a car till its fixed, shipped or made by yourself.

trust me i like both H22 and Bseries but you want a daily driver so you need it everyday for school work etc. and don't want to depend on other to carry you around think about it.

P.S. No matter what anyone says you don't have to cut your firewall to make the H22 fit unless you have a LSD one or a JDM cable tranny (in this you will have to drill holes for the shifter cables


Modified by ace1875 at 11:02 PM 4/19/2003

ace1875

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">B18C1 (is that the Type R engine, or am I wrong?)</TD></TR></TABLE>

B18C5 is the Type R engine and the C1 is the GSR engine i like the ITR too but its too rich for my blood and i can do some more bolt ons with the money i saved.

trust me with the C1 you will be a great competion for your friends prelude
1/4
u(in a CX HB)- 14s - 13s
friend (Lude)- 14s - 15s




Modified by ace1875 at 11:04 PM 4/19/2003

explosive

So any idea how much I would be looking at for a engine swap?

Price for a H22 with everything I would need?

Price for a B16C1?

Thanks for clarifying the engine code thing for me.

ace1875

H22 will run around $2500 - $3000 (without the mounts, aexls etc.) (add around $1000 to $2000 for the rest of the junk)

B18C1 will run around $3500 - $4000

the range is on the seller and is a guesstimation you might find some cheaper some kinda expensive

but if you ever decide to get one i would recomend IAS (Import Auto Salvage) kinda priced a little more then others but IMO its the best place very clean and they will send everything the engine came with.

Ask in this site about there rep

explosive

Hmm...thanks for the help, that is really helpful...how much would an install run of both? And which one has the most potential all motor on pump gas?

ace1875

the install is basically DIY if you know what you are doing

check these DIY out

but if you pay some shop it might cost you $500 or you might come out a lot cheaper if you pay someone that knows Hondas to do it.

explosive

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ace1875 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">P.S. No matter what anyone says you don't have to cut your firewall to make the H22 fit unless you have a LSD one or a JDM cable tranny (in this you will have to drill holes for the shifter cables</TD></TR></TABLE>

Uh oh...I plan on getting one with an LSD for the simple fact that they're always helpful in getting traction. I assume that there are bad effects if you drill holes in your firewall? Or it must cost a lot?

explosive

bump

trav

What kind of track driving are you going to do? Drag,Autocross,Other?
Depending on budget and what your going for. If i were going Drag i would go H22 or B18C5. If you are going for autocross i would go B18C5 or B16B depending on money and stuff. Im making my EK9 Hatch for Autocross for now I dropped a B16B in because i am not one for waiting around and i didnt have the dough for a B18C5 at the time. Well thats my 2cents.

explosive

This is drag...nothing but drag as autocross will be out of the question since the car will be so nose-heavy. I am hoping for all-motor 12's, but with a lot of work.

Again, can anyone tell me if having to drill holes in the firewall is going to be costly or hurt the car in any way?

gamby

Just an aside, there are plenty of people who auto-x w/ H22-equipped EG and EK. Thre have been a few posts on H-T about the extreme nose-heaviness being a myth.

Also, battery relocation and a CF hood will offset the extra weight wuite a bit.

explosive

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gamby &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just an aside, there are plenty of people who auto-x w/ H22-equipped EG and EK. Thre have been a few posts on H-T about the extreme nose-heaviness being a myth.

Also, battery relocation and a CF hood will offset the extra weight wuite a bit.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, that's what I thought...I mean, Preludes are not that heavy, I would assume that the engine would not be either. I am just stuck on that engine, it's just so nice, so torquey for a four cylinder. Autocrossing wouldn't be out of the question then? That's great, I've always wanted to do that, just not as much as drag racing at the strips. But that means that a body kit is definitely out of the question. Hopefully I can get some springs that will allow me to have that slammed look and not kill my performance.

As far as battery re-location and CF hood, I know that the CF hood is a definite...I love the way they look on the Del Sol. Heck I could take off the Targa Top for even more weight savings .

gamby

Autocrossing isn't out of the question for any car. There was a stock Caddy Catera running Azenis at the last auot-x I was at. If that car can do it, your H22 hybrid can do it. You'll just have to do some suspension research.

Your car will be fine, though.

Audi RS4

welcome, and goodluck with your quest for power, my .02........ EG , EG , EG , EG

Mag00n

i have a 94 sol with factory b16. I love it! Bone stock i can run low 15's. It isnt mind bending, but it is a very peppy car. It wil take ALOT of work to get a sol into the 12's N/A. But more power to you if you do

trav

i agree that you can autocross with a H22. im sure some people do. I was just giving my thoughts on how i would build a car for either. there are plenty of reasons for going B or H possibly even K and its totaly up to the person tuning the car to make the choise.

I went B for a few reasons. total HP was not something i am after at this time. It is more than likely that I will either re-build my B16 with a B18 bottom. Or go K later down the road. What ever i do it prolly wont be for a few years till i get tired of my B16.