Firebirda7x

Hello, I'm new here. I'm mainly a muscle guy, primarily GM and Pontiacs. I have been wondering lately, what people really do to make Civics fast. I see a lot of junkers around here but every now and then I will see one that really flies, and I was just curious on the amount of money and work needed.

Is it the same as every other vehicle, where you need to actually move past bolt ons to gain respectable speed? Or is the hype true: you guys get cheap easy power?

I wans't sure what benefit you get from high compression heads and exhaust work, or if it's true you can turbo your motors stock.

Anyway, just a question from a curious Firebird owner

BryCivicSi

It is no different than building a GM product. Good parts and a good tune make a good running car. There is no such thing as cheap, easy power.

94EG8

The only big difference I guess is that there isn't much power to be made with bolt ons, intake and exhaust just don't do much of anything. Forced induction is pretty much the easiest way to make a significant amount of power over stock.

Otherwise it's pretty much the same, a lot of guys simply swap their engine rather that try to get more power out of the stock engine, if you're used to GMs it's pretty similar, a lot of guys swap in a B-series engine from a '94 - '01 Integra or '99 - '00 Si, '97 - '01 CR-V, mainly because they bolt in with nothing but stock parts in much the same way GM guys swap out 4.3Ls for 305s, 350s and 400s.

One other thing I thought I should add, Hondas do have one significant advantage over just about anything else, OBD1 ('92 - '95 ECUs) are easily chipped and tuned, they're basically a factory standalone unit so you don't need to buy either a piggyback or expensive standalone which does save a lot of money.

Libertariat

The cheapest way to make "easy power" on a honda civic is with a turbo. For a few thousand dollars you can put the car in the 12's range in the 1/4 mile with some solid tires.

B-series engines are a bit more capable on the stock bottom end, but d-series are known to be fine for 200-250whp. B-series more like 350-400whp on the stock bottom end.

It's all in how good the tune is.

jughead

I pretty much agree here, the key is the easy engine swaps (bolt in JDM engines get decomissioned with low miles and sent over here due to different laws/demand etc, junkyard engines from the billion other honda/acura) and part swapping between tons of honda/acura models, plus low weight and the fuel economy benefits, Honda reliability, civics are not "sports cars" for insurance. And back in the day VTEC was a leg up in technology allowed the engines smooth idle and fuel economy/emissions until you hit the vtec rev limit and then you got more racecar/sportbike like cam performance. Plus the chipping part mentioned.

EDIT: For instance I just saw a built K engine on craigs list going for 2500 OBO with less than 10k miles. So for 3500-4000$ you can get a 250 whp motor installed. Less if you do the work. And there's a 1500 OBO complete B series turbo kit.

93egSLEEPER

Unlike muscle cars (which I know well...see sig) the power to weight ratio of hondas is what sets them apart from domestics in the largest way. Everyone knows less weight is better than more power (within reason). As stated above forced induction is the easiest and cheapest way to make a honda "fast". Beyond that swapping to larger displacement motors (2.0L to 2.4L) is right behind it in terms of making easier power. Staying all motor is typically more expensive for "less" power as a general rule of thumb. Extensive turbo setups are by no means cheap either but for obvious reasons.
Not trying to call you out or anything but is the point in this thread to get guidance on what you may want to do with your car to make it faster? Or is it just a general question? Provide goals, a budget and other info if you want the best answers for what your looking for. GM power baby!

Firebirda7x

250 HP is built for those engines? What quarter miles can you be running with that figure?

I spent $1,700 on my Firebird and another 2 grand later I got the 355 in there and at about 360 crank Hp. Haven't actually gone to a track with it yet so I don't know any figures.

93egSLEEPER

A 250whp hatch will run that firebird in the ground.... thats a high 12's hatch vs a mid 13's firebird. My old turbo setup in my civic made 340whp 230tq and ran 11.7's. My chevelle (full body on slicks) with around 500whp runs low 12's. Thats why in my post above i said weight>power.

Firebirda7x

I was just curious. Seeing more and more of these small, cheap 4 bangers out there kids have been working on, and I was wondering how they hang with cars like mine when in a similar budgeted build-up.

Classmates keep saying "buy a 94 Civic Ex, drop in a *insert good honda motor here* and now you got a 12 second car stock". Wasn't sure how much was true

Firebirda7x

My Firebird is not mid 13s my instructors 640 hp 2nd gen camaro did 8's. Chevelles wern't exactly aerodynamic haha

vartok

no, its not built, thats a turbo with stock internals. although i would be leery of going over 220 on stock, ive seen fully built d16z6 (the performance vtec motor from 92-95) do 400hp

Firebirda7x

Nice. Are the faster civics always gutted? My Firebird weighs in around 3300 pounds stock, I want to get it to 3100 which can be done via aluminum replacement parts but I don't want to gut it. It's just a badass daily driver. How low can you guys get without making the vehicle unbearable to drive in? And be street legal too.

usdm-honda-r18

My boys h2b eg only bolt ons skunk 2 intake mani, password jdm kevlar intake, full 3 inch exhaust he got it tuned it is making 225 hp idk tq sorry but its best time on 10" slicks was 12.64 in 115 degree weather !!

TwoFaced

Yep...as mentioned above weight has alot to do with it. If you remove spare tire, sound deadening material, AC, power steering, sunroofs, downsize your battery, heaters...matched with a set of HX wheels...your car could look completely stock but you have saved hundreds of pounds, and freed up some HP. If you combine this with lighter exhaust, a better honda engine, CAI and a good tuning you can really smash on some domestics. Depending on the motor, that can be 200+ WHP all motor in one of the lightest possible vehicles.

vartok

well, there actually isnt a whole lot of weight to loose in these cars, depending on the body, they range from 2094lbs to 2522, the manual hatchback being the lightest.

Im not really sure on how low you can good, but a 2 inch drop if fairly common and doesnt completely destroy the ride (from what i understand... havnt upgraded the suspention on mine yet)


edit: weights are for the EGs (92-95), which are the most common around where i live, and what i have (4 door though >.<)

Firebirda7x

So you need to basically make your car track-ready to be super fast...that's mainly what I was wondering. Gutting versus not gutting. When someone goes to that length it's not really apples to apples unless I gut mine I wouldn't want to drive around something like that haha

lunareg

there not much gutting involved. the 92-95 hatch base model(cx) comes from the factory at 2095lbs it doesnt come with ac, powersteering, no window motors.. take out the spare tire, backseat, and sound deadening and its well under 2000 and you still have a full interior minus the backseat lol. Its totally comfortable to drive.

figure power to weight a 2000lbs car with 250hp is the same ratio as a 3000lbs car with 375hp

Firebirda7x

yea. But the fact I have a large, toqeuey V8 is going to balance it out cuz it can move that extra mass easier.

I was considering building up a civic for fun to have a revvy small car around. I'm just sorting fact from fiction before I invest in this. Some claim them to handle exceptionally and be faster than many cars out there, yet I can be a bit biased towards the BMW and Corvette engineers over a Civic buildup in terms of true performance

lunareg

well ****, go snag a 97m3 for 10grand if you want to, I would if I had 10grand laying around. spend half that on a eg and you have your self a gocart with a license plate, and they turn just as good as they go straight. tons of fun.

C4_Gsr_civic

my 94 ex has a semi built gsr in it and i get 230 to the wheels, combine that with the weight i took out which puts it at 2100 lbs with me in it makes it a high 12 second car. Its not completely gutted either, still have full interior including backseat and my spare tire(which i remove at the track).

alphalanos

because the cars are so light you dont need as much power to go fast. but, they are fwd, which is a disadvantage. but if you do a nice build and turbo, then suspension you have a pretty quick car that will also handle very well. Its a different experience then a big motor car. I personally cant stand heavy cars, Id rather have something small that handles and is fairly quick.

Former User

The "How do I make my Civic faster" section (section 4) in the FAQs sticky may interest you.

that_boy_sammy

Haha V8 killaaaaaaaaz

Firebirda7x

Nice. yea, I like my V8 but I like the feeling of when my buds Talon pulls as the turbo spins up. My other friend has a 89 Supra turbo, that thing sounds beautiful at 8k rpms. I have always wanted a Honda but never actually pursued it. This looks like it could be a fun car to drive around in.

And hey, my Firebird handles like your driving a car half it's size. I don't drive a boat myself

zdizzle

wow if u like reliabilty and decent gas milage then welcome my friend, nothin like beating a v8chevy/ford in honda imo