ripthesystem

Car in Question: 95 Civic LX Auto
In the very humid Akron, Ohio...

Got a great deal on an MSD 6AL and after some reading I decided that I'd upgrade my coil/ignition system.

Ended up with a MSD 6AL, Blaster 3 Coil, and MSD Distributer cap for around $150 total.. all new. Got together with a couple of friends and several beers later we had it installed without any major complications. I didn't have a new rotor so 2-3 days later I replaced the old one with new..

That was close to 1 month ago and everything has been fine. Love the extra HP and altogether my car runs much smoother and I've even managed to up my gas mileage a little. Good stuff.

So on Saturday I hop in the car to shoot off to my girlfriends house and at the first stop light I come to... my car dies. I mean- just shuts off.. no sputtering.. just look down and the dash is black and and the next song never came on the CD. Try to restart it... And it seems to get plenty of charge- tries to turn over.. tries like a MFer but it just won't start.. Push my car off the road and investigate.

Check all the distributer cap/coil wires and visibly everything is fine. Pop the Dist. Cap off and whoa! My brand new rotor is totally corroded. I use a screwdriver to scrape it to see some metal.. and the car fires right up. So now I'm thinking.. why did this happen? Don't want it to happen again. Hmmmm.

So I ask my friend and read some more and it seems like I should vent the cap so the gases trapped in there can escape and won't corrode the rotor (or worse).. And there is a vent on the cap so I pop it off and replace the rotor again and all seems fine. Like new.

Enter Problem #2...
I live in Ohio. It rains. a lot. there is a 20 degree temperature drop every night and in the morning my car is always covered with dew and condensation. Twice now since opening the vent I've had trouble starting my car in the morning. My first thought is condensation, since after a slight bit of effort I'm able to start but I don't like to be out there cranking my starter like there's no tommorrow.

Anyone have any ideas? Am I barking up the wrong tree with the humidity thing?

Help!


Modified by ripthesystem at 4:22 PM 9/11/2003

Marauder

If the cap is giving you probelms, just buy a new Honda cap, and modify it for the external coil. Using the tower adapter from MSD, you drill out the cap where the internal coil is, and screw in the adapter tower and silicone it in. That way you just have a Honda cap that uses an external coil. Shouldn't have a vent problem then!

ripthesystem

Well I don't know that it is the cap that is giving me probs. I have the vent open now and the new rotor seems ok. I still think I'd have the vent issue because my ignition has changed.. and regardless of the cap thats a lot more voltage running through there.

Marauder

I ran the MSD SCI Digital ignition with a modified Honda cap and a Blaster SS coil with no troubles.

t0p_sh0tta

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ripthesystem &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I still think I'd have the vent issue because my ignition has changed.. and regardless of the cap thats a lot more voltage running through there.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Voltage and current are two different things. The factory cap should handle it without anyproblems.

ripthesystem

OK... excluding the cap as a possibility... what else could be causing my car to do this??

rice_n_me

i've been running msd systems and selling them for years and never heard of this problem...you might want to check else where for your problem....

ripthesystem

That's fair. In so far as after the car is started... everything is running Aces.
So if it's not my new ignition system- what other things could cause problems starting in the morning?

hondasleeper

Could the wires that you have running into the cap be catching on the rotor and fraying it? I am wondering if that is causing all your build up.

Just re-read the original post, I think humidity could a cause of your problem...

ripthesystem

This has become a fairly regular problem.. but only in the morning after sitting all night. Yesterday it cranked over and started but today it just cranked but wouldn't start.

To get the car to start (if it won't on it's own) I've been taking off the negative cable from the battery, poppin off the dist cap and looking inside for moisture or buildup on the rotor.

So far- no moisture. The new rotor doesn't look as fresh or clean as I think it should, but it might just be me(it doesn't look bad).. but then I put it all back together and ... Vrrrrooooom. No problem.

So I noticed something the last time I was putting it all back together- my negative terminal connector won't tighten down all the way. It fits snug but with a slight twisting action I can pop it off without loosening the nut. Still it's making a connection (spark) so it should start right?

wilsel

If your engine is turning over then it should not be the battery terminal. If it was the starter would not engage. If it was a problem with 1 plug wire the car would start, but run like ****. There is only 4 things that it could be: coil, coil wire, dis cap, or rotor. If it was me I would replace the dis cap first

ripthesystem

OMFG- WTF is wrong?

I haven't had a chance to replace my cap yet but today the saga continues and gets more odd. Not sure if this changes the above diagnosis or not.

This morning I go out to start my car. It turns over but hesitates to start and then I hear a slight thud.. and it's going. The thud (don't think I imagined it) bothers me so I leave the car running and look under the hood. Visually OK. Get in the car and drive to work. I live about 5 min. from the highway, then a 15 minute highway drive to work. As I'm getting on the highway I get slightly heavy with the gas going slightly uphill and....

Slight thud (maybe-less sure of this one) and the car dies. Just shuts off- the radio still running but the CEL comes on and I try to start it while rollin in neutral- and it cranks but won't start. So I coast to the side of the road and pop the hood... visually - everything looks fine. Try to start the car.. no start. Go to trunk 4 screwdriver(thinking of popping the cap again) and get back to the front to realized I grabbed the wrong one. After I grab the right one I try one last miracle try to start the car... and it starts right up.

No sputter.. no hesitation.. no thud (imaginary or otherwise).. just works.
I hop in and cautiously proceed the rest of the way to work w/o problems.

Ideas??? Could it really be the cap that is causing this problem? Just don't want to throw more money away if I can help it.


Modified by ripthesystem at 4:09 PM 9/11/2003

ripthesystem

TTT

Marauder

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ripthesystem &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> but the CEL comes on </TD></TR></TABLE>

Pull the code!

wilsel

I still say it's the cap. Coils usually quit working and you'll never get it started again when they go. Sounds like the coil is not passing the power to the rotor. Or the rotor is not making contact with the terminals in the cap for the spark plugs. Very weird.

Next time it happens pull a plug wire at the plug end. Stick a screw driver in the boot, and then lay it across one of the valve cover bolts. Next try to start the car and see if it sparks. If it doesn't spark, then go do the same with the coil wire. That will definitely narrow it down.

ripthesystem

Ok. Admittedly I'm an automotive tinkering n00b so first off- thanks for all the great responses. I'm glad that we have it narrowed down as much as we do.

so with that in mind here come the questions:
1- how do I read the engine codes? from the CEL?
2-<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wilsel &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Next time it happens pull a plug wire at the plug end. Stick a screw driver in the boot, and then lay it across one of the valve cover bolts. Next try to start the car and see if it sparks. If it doesn't spark, then go do the same with the coil wire. That will definitely narrow it down.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Never done this b4 and it sounds slightly frightening so I want to make sure I have it right before I kill myself or my car. Take off the plug wire (at the plug). Put the metal end of the screwdriver in the the wire boot and lay the rest of the exposed metal across the hole that the boot went into.. try to start the car and see if that sparks?

If it does... what does that imply?

If it doesn't then try the same with the coil wire.. Meaning touch that to the valve cover w/ the screwdriver too? if that Sparks.. what does that mean?

Thx again

Del Sol SiR

iTrader: (2)

It sounds like your coil, you should use a multimeter to test for continuity in your coil. I had this problem with my Blaster 2 coil, as it was affected when the engine bay was too hot or if it was too cold and so I bought a new one. Now it works fine.

ripthesystem

OK- I can lay my hands on a multimeter.. just have to figure out how to use it
Right now my coil is mounted on the far left side of the engine compartment to the front on the shallow part under the hood in front of the strut tower.. laying flat. (hows that for a run on sentence)

Basically as far left as you can go.. but laying flat- do you think maybe the cold air from overnight could affect this? is it supposed to? would a new coil act better or does it need mounted somewhere else?

Mista Bone

not the MSD 6AL, the MSD cap, or the weather.

I live in Cincy and have been running my MSD 6AL for 3 years. The only time it failed me was on the first test drive. The wires got caught by the rotor.

If you had buildup on the rotor, might wanna check the dist. bearings, they might be getting worn allowing contact to be made.

X2BOARD

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rice_n_me &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i've been running msd systems and selling them for years and never heard of this problem...you might want to check else where for your problem....</TD></TR></TABLE>

You must be lucky.... this is somewhat common.

First off, if moisture builds in your distributor, you'd be getting some misfiring on occasion (spark jumping the gap to multiple plug wires) from moisture build up.
If you have a hole in the dist cap, go to Radio Shack and buy some rubber grommets to have a tight fit OR use Silicone as mentioned before.

Secondly, if your coil is bad, it would do this random crap too.
* Putting a screwdriver in the plug boot and putting it next to a ground is a common test... just stay well clear of the screwdriver when cranking over (you should see a small spark/arc of electricity to ground when cranking.

Third, if your ICM (ignitor) is old, adding an MSD may help it on it's way out.... you'll notice this problem occur more frequently if that's the case.

Lastly, as far as your MSD box... you may want to temporarily uninstall it and have a dealer test it. If it comes out OK at the test box... you can also send it to MSD for a burn-in test where they put it on a machine and run it at full tilt for a few hours. All you'd pay is shipping if it's not under warranty.

X2

tangb2023

do u reallt feel the power in the msd setup.. cause i had it on i dont feel ****. also if anywants to but complete setup 110 obo. coms with everything for sohc.

Mista Bone

stock ignition is good beyond 200 hp, the MSD adds NOTHING!!!!

The only reasons I bought mine...........
#1 extra spark while spraying......
#2 let the MSD cut the spark (7800 rpm) before the fuel cut (8500 rpm)

ripthesystem

Well yesterday I decided to hedge my bets and knock out 3 of the 4(?) possibilities.
When my rotor was corroded I checked the contacts on the outside of the cap but (stupid me) forgot to check the ones on the inside. So I fully pulled the cap off and it looked pretty bad inside. Apparently, not venting it properly(see first post) ruined the rotor and the cap.

With that in mind- I picked up a new cap (which happens to come with a new coil wire) and a new rotor. Put them all on last night and reset the ECU just in case. So far- everything is ok. It ran perfect last night and this morning... started fine w/ no dying on the highway

Hopefully this really did fix it- though since the problem was only intermittent- only time will tell. Keep your fingers crossed.

Del Sol SiR

iTrader: (2)

Good reply "X2BOARD"...

Pho Real

I had problems similar to this when I was running my 6AL. The car would struggle to start and sometimes bog. Other times it would start and run fine, then after I try to turn it back on after like 5-10 minutes it wouldn't start for ****. On the other hand if I let it sit for 2+ hours it would crank right up. Silly **** pissed me off, I changed the fuel pump, fuel filter, put a new honda cap and rotor, changed the spark plugs and then drove it for two days and it ran fine. Then two days later I sold the engine to one one guy and sold the shell to another. Neither have called complaining.... so I will never really know wtf was wrong.