Honda Civic / Del Sol (1992 - 2000) EG/EH/EJ/EK/EM1 Discussion

moving to SoCal..Help me with bar???

 
Old 09-21-2004, 10:49 AM
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Default moving to SoCal..Help me with bar???

I have read that I will not pass bar with a b16a head and b18c1 block combo... But I already have the b16a head, but not assemble on the b18c1 block yet... Am I f#cked or do I still have a chance??

I am moving to so cal in a couple of months...

Is there a way I could get barred in Washington and go to SoCal and dont have to worry about this mess? Should I just ditch the head that I spent so much money on and get a gsr head? I really like my b16a head.

Is there anything I could do to get away with this? any suggestions?

Any help would be great.. thanks..
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Old 09-21-2004, 10:59 AM
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Default Re: moving to SoCal..Help me with bar??? (civiclizeEg)

Keep the car registered in Washington then you dont have to worry about anything.
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Old 09-21-2004, 11:20 AM
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Default Re: moving to SoCal..Help me with bar??? (civiclizeEg)

my friend had this is his car and he passed
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Old 09-21-2004, 11:45 AM
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Default Re: moving to SoCal..Help me with bar??? (Luserkid)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Luserkid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Keep the car registered in Washington then you dont have to worry about anything. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Are you sure about this. If I am not mistaking cali popos will pull you over if you have a out of state plates.. Esp. dropped imports...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by egcoupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my friend had this is his car and he passed</TD></TR></TABLE>

What are my chances of being able to pass? Your friend may pass the bar sticker but people said that not everyone gets away with it.
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Old 09-21-2004, 11:48 AM
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Default Re: moving to SoCal..Help me with bar??? (civiclizeEg)

Could I just not get the bar sticker and still be able to get away with it?

What are the risks in doing this?
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Old 09-21-2004, 11:53 AM
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Default Re: moving to SoCal..Help me with bar??? (civiclizeEg)

**** all taht just find someone to pass smog like i did and then u can do whatever the funk u want to.......its great!!


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Old 09-21-2004, 11:57 AM
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Default Re: moving to SoCal..Help me with bar??? (egcoupe)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by egcoupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my friend had this is his car and he passed</TD></TR></TABLE>

Had what? A poor mans type R? What did the car pass as? And wheres the proof. and what smog station?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LOOKALIKe_eh2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">**** all taht just find someone to pass smog like i did and then u can do whatever the funk u want to.......its great!!


</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yea but if you get pulled over then youll have to go to the state ref and then its back to this. Its better to have the BAR sticker and not worry about cops.

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Old 09-21-2004, 12:00 PM
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Default Re: moving to SoCal..Help me with bar??? (civiclizeEg)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civiclizeEg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Are you sure about this. If I am not mistaking cali popos will pull you over if you have a out of state plates.. Esp. dropped imports...

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yea they could pull you over like a normal person but they wont care to much about your smog stuff because you are registered in Washington.

If you forge a BAR sticker i think your car gets impounded without question because thats almost the same as changing VINs. But i dont know about that but its not worth the risk.
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Old 09-21-2004, 12:23 PM
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Default Re: moving to SoCal..Help me with bar??? (Luserkid)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Luserkid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Had what? A poor mans type R? What did the car pass as? And wheres the proof. and what smog station?

</TD></TR></TABLE>
ya he had a poor mans type r. what do u mean what did he pass the car as? i dont have any proof that he did except that it was always registered. some smog station in the bay area
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Old 09-21-2004, 12:39 PM
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Default Re: moving to SoCal..Help me with bar??? (egcoupe)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by egcoupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
ya he had a poor mans type r. what do u mean what did he pass the car as? i dont have any proof that he did except that it was always registered. some smog station in the bay area</TD></TR></TABLE>

Which station is did your friend go to? Ill be moving to around the bay area also and am curious?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LOOKALIKe_eh2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">**** all taht just find someone to pass smog like i did and then u can do whatever the funk u want to.......its great!! </TD></TR></TABLE>

Is that a legal bar sticker for your car? If so hook it up....

If its not a legal bar sticker then I dont want my car impounded like Luserkid said..

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Luserkid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you forge a BAR sticker i think your car gets impounded without question because thats almost the same as changing VINs. But i dont know about that but its not worth the risk. </TD></TR></TABLE>
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Old 09-21-2004, 12:49 PM
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Default Re: moving to SoCal..Help me with bar??? (civiclizeEg)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civiclizeEg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Which station is did your friend go to? Ill be moving to around the bay area also and am curious?


</TD></TR></TABLE>
i have no idea, i met him after he had all his **** done. it was pretty fast too and some buttfucks stole it. i know theres one in skyline thats easy to pass
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Old 09-21-2004, 01:02 PM
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Default Re: moving to SoCal..Help me with bar??? (egcoupe)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by egcoupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
ya he had a poor mans type r. what do u mean what did he pass the car as? i dont have any proof that he did except that it was always registered. some smog station in the bay area</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's possible for him to have it smogged and pass by the numbers, if the station didn't know the difference or they "hooked him up." But the Ref won't certify the motor, it's not available in any Honda in the US (or Japan for that matter).
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Old 09-21-2004, 01:05 PM
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Default Re: moving to SoCal..Help me with bar??? (rodrez)

ya its possible cuz he knew like everyone in the bay area. he also could have put the head on after he got the motor bard but i dunno. i didnt know to much about engines when i met him and now he moved so i dont tlak to him anymore
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Old 09-21-2004, 01:19 PM
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Default Re: moving to SoCal..Help me with bar??? (egcoupe)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by egcoupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ya its possible cuz he knew like everyone in the bay area. he also could have put the head on after he got the motor bard but i dunno. i didnt know to much about engines when i met him and now he moved so i dont tlak to him anymore</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think we're talking about 2 different things. He could have his car smogged with a buddy, or sneak it by an average smog tech, and pass, and register his car no problem.
BAR certification is something different. You actually take the car to a specialist, who visually inspects your motor, and smog dyno's it, and if it passes completely, you're provided a sticker and certification with a small fee, so that the swap is legal. The poor man's ITR set up won't fly at the Referee station, but could certainly pass by the numbers at an average smog shop, but will never be legal. If he's pulled over, and the officer writes him up for it, they'll send him to the Referee for certification, and he'll be in a tight spot at that point.
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Old 09-21-2004, 01:26 PM
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Default Re: moving to SoCal..Help me with bar??? (rodrez)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rodrez &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think we're talking about 2 different things. He could have his car smogged with a buddy, or sneak it by an average smog tech, and pass, and register his car no problem.
BAR certification is something different. You actually take the car to a specialist, who visually inspects your motor, and smog dyno's it, and if it passes completely, you're provided a sticker and certification with a small fee, so that the swap is legal. The poor man's ITR set up won't fly at the Referee station, but could certainly pass by the numbers at an average smog shop, but will never be legal. If he's pulled over, and the officer writes him up for it, they'll send him to the Referee for certification, and he'll be in a tight spot at that point. </TD></TR></TABLE>
no were talkin bout the same thing, maybe it just sounded wrong though sry. what im saying is he could have gotten the b18c1 bard w/ out the b16head on there. then put the head on there and get it smogged.
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Old 09-21-2004, 01:41 PM
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Default Re: moving to SoCal..Help me with bar??? (egcoupe)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by egcoupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">no were talkin bout the same thing, maybe it just sounded wrong though sry. what im saying is he could have gotten the b18c1 bard w/ out the b16head on there. then put the head on there and get it smogged.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah....
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Old 09-21-2004, 01:42 PM
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Default Re: moving to SoCal..Help me with bar??? (Jon V)

y did u put i was joke? ***
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Old 09-21-2004, 01:43 PM
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Default Re: moving to SoCal..Help me with bar??? (egcoupe)

Out of state cars go thru a lot more for smog checks than cars orignially bought in CA. So you'd probably have to go to a test-only at least, and once they see your setup, they might just send you off to a REF.

No, you can not REF the car in Washington, cause they don't have Ref's.

A B16 head and B18C shortblock should be legal, as long as all the other parts bolted to it are CARB legal and you have the proper ECU and smog equipment hooked up. The big thing will be whether or not the block/engine are the same model year or newer than the car.
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Old 09-21-2004, 01:54 PM
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Default Re: moving to SoCal..Help me with bar??? (Marauder)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by egcoupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
no were talkin bout the same thing, maybe it just sounded wrong though sry. what im saying is he could have gotten the b18c1 bard w/ out the b16head on there. then put the head on there and get it smogged.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That is a <FONT SIZE="5">BIG</FONT> between what we are talking about.

Your friend got a B18c BAR'd and then put a head on after that is one thing, but that does not mean that it passed BAR being a b18c/b16, like you first said it did.

You could SMOG a b18c/b16 if you want provided you find someone that will pass you. But to have it BAR'd you are nuts. Same with that LS/VTEC idea it wont pass.


Understand we are talking about <FONT SIZE="3">BAR</FONT> not your average everyday smog. Those are 2 different topics.
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Old 09-21-2004, 02:13 PM
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Default Re: moving to SoCal..Help me with bar??? (Marauder)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Marauder &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

A B16 head and B18C shortblock should be legal, as long as all the other parts bolted to it are CARB legal and you have the proper ECU and smog equipment hooked up. The big thing will be whether or not the block/engine are the same model year or newer than the car. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Unfortunately it's not. We had 2 swaps that we tried to put through 2 different Ref's in San Diego, and they knew right away. One was a 92-95 Civic, the other a 95 Integra that was sent to the Ref for exhaust/header violation. They pulled out this booklet, and it had a blown up picture of a GSR motor, with numbers pointing to the 02 sensor, injectors, distributor, etc. As soon as he looked at the manifold, he took a closer look and said "sorry, not going to work." He offered a reschedule (Civic). The other (Integra) wasn't as nice, but did offer a reschedule and said that most likely it would pass by the numbers on the rollers, but visually wasn't going for it.
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Old 09-21-2004, 02:48 PM
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Default Re: moving to SoCal..Help me with bar??? (rodrez)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rodrez &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Unfortunately it's not. We had 2 swaps that we tried to put through 2 different Ref's in San Diego, and they knew right away. One was a 92-95 Civic, the other a 95 Integra that was sent to the Ref for exhaust/header violation. They pulled out this booklet, and it had a blown up picture of a GSR motor, with numbers pointing to the 02 sensor, injectors, distributor, etc. . </TD></TR></TABLE>

Ah, so the hybrid setups wont pass? If you have a GSR block, you need the GSR motor and all the stock GSR emissions equipment then?
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Old 09-21-2004, 02:55 PM
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<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Marauder &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Ah, so the hybrid setups wont pass? If you have a GSR block, you need the GSR motor and all the stock GSR emissions equipment then?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, well, the head for sure. He was looking at something on the throttle body also, REALLY close, but I'm not sure what it was. I'm suprised he didn't take out a magnifying glass, it was that close. They gave the guy a print out of that blown up view of the GSR motor, and circled the stuff that was missing, and said to fix it and try again. I'm not sure whatever happened with that whole thing, if he ever tried to go back and certify.
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Old 09-21-2004, 03:02 PM
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Default Re: moving to SoCal..Help me with bar??? (civiclizeEg)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Marauder &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Out of state cars go thru a lot more for smog checks than cars orignially bought in CA. So you'd probably have to go to a test-only at least, and once they see your setup, they might just send you off to a REF.

No, you can not REF the car in Washington, cause they don't have Ref's.

A B16 head and B18C shortblock should be legal, as long as all the other parts bolted to it are CARB legal and you have the proper ECU and smog equipment hooked up. The big thing will be whether or not the block/engine are the same model year or newer than the car. </TD></TR></TABLE>

So you are saying that my car will first be sent to a test only station and then sent to a ref station?

Some of you said that it will pass visual but some said it wont? which one is really right. I am going to install the combo into a 92 hatch. The block is from a 94-95 gsr and head is jdm 92-95 sir2.

Should I run a obd1 p30 ecu? or a obd1 p72 ecu?

So is the answer......... NO, I will not pass and I will have to ditch my b16 head for a gsr one? Is this what all you guys are saying?
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Old 09-21-2004, 03:20 PM
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Default Re: moving to SoCal..Help me with bar??? (civiclizeEg)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civiclizeEg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So you are saying that my car will first be sent to a test only station and then sent to a ref station?

Some of you said that it will pass visual but some said it wont? which one is really right. I am going to install the combo into a 92 hatch. The block is from a 94-95 gsr and head is jdm 92-95 sir2.

Should I run a obd1 p30 ecu? or a obd1 p72 ecu?

So is the answer......... NO, I will not pass and I will have to ditch my b16 head for a gsr one? Is this what all you guys are saying?</TD></TR></TABLE>

First of all, keep in mind, that the California state referree has a set of guidelines to follow, and it's "supposed" to be the same at all of their stations. But I've heard numerous stories about how one Ref wouldn't do something, but another one up North, would. I'm sharing my experiences with the Ref, which have been quite a few because San Diego police will cite you for any, and everything.

The reason the GSR block, B16 head won't pass at the Ref, and can't be BAR certified, is because that motor combination doesn't exist in a Honda from the factory. Just like LS/VTEC and CR/VTEC, they're "homemade." The motor itself, if in good shape, will pass by the numbers. What that means is, the amount of emissions produced by the Poor mans ITR is no more than a GSR or B16, so theoretically, it's a clean running motor, and wouldn't be a problem if Cali wasn't so strict.
You can try to pass smog at a regular old smog station, and if the attendant doesn't know much about Honda's (which is rare nowadays), he may pass you, and you can register your car, which is great, but it will not be legal, and if you're ever pulled over, there's a good chance your hood will be popped, and guess where the officer is going to send you? Directly to the Ca state referree. So you're back at square one.

Keep in mind, some people squeek by w/out ever having to visit the Ref, others go back over and over for violations.

One more variable. Some people are randomly chosen, when it comes time to smog your car for registration (every other year), to visit a Test Only center. This is not the referee, but it's a smog station with individuals that are watched more closely than the regular smog stations, they don't do repairs to vehicles, they only smog. The chances of passing a non-BAR certified car at a Test Only station are close to zero, they know what they're looking for. Alot of the people that get sent to Test Only stations, are chosen due to past gross polluter violations, or the area they live in may be an "enhanced area."

Hope that helps. I know it's confusing, but that's how California is when it comes to emissions laws.
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Old 09-21-2004, 10:24 PM
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Default Re: moving to SoCal..Help me with bar??? (rodrez)

hey i jus got a jdm b16a swap in my eg. we're going to do custom wiring this sat for my vtec. i was wondering if i have to get head work b4 i go all out on bolt ons. I heard it was bad for my car to get full bolt ons b4 i get headwork
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