Many repairs done, poor low end performance and mpg's continues
12-02-2012, 01:59 PM
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Many repairs done, poor low end performance and mpg's continues
Hello everyone, I am having an issue with poor low end performance and poor gas mileage on my hatchy. There have been many repairs/maintenance done to the car and I do not understand what is wrong. I am only getting 20mpg in my car, this is HORRIBLE for such a small car! My V6 Thunderbird get's 19mpg!!
My theory is the timing needs to be adjusted, because I have read similar issues about poor low end performance and poor mpg's that point to the timing. Also, when my car was failing smog, a technician did retard the timing back in order to help it pass, and it was never set back. BUT.... Recently, when my car was at ANOTHER shop, they checked the timing and said it was within spec. It is approximately 6 degrees BTDC. HOWEVER, On the other hand, a certified smog inspection station owner claimed that 6 degrees BTDC is FAILING and failed my car for this (smog issue was solved and not my current problem)
Now, when I say poor low end performance, essentially the car does not get up like it used to, it lacks torque. big time. The engine lacks power until it reaches enough RPM's for the VTEC to engage, everytime. You can watch the tach and as SOON as it reaches 4k, you feel a big difference. That being said, my car is slow, very very slow these days from a stop or low speeds. On the freeway, it does pretty well, does not really lack on acceleration.
Another thing to add, my car idles very low, especially while driving and you take it out of gear and coast.. the rpm's drop to <500. Refer to the list below before you say CLEAN THE IACV! (already has been done)
Last question I have: My car after it has been driven, makes a clack sound that is quite audible. I understand that metal contracts after the car has been shut off but this sound is louder, almost like someone is tapping the block with a screwdriver. The sound is heard as one loud "tap / clack" about every 20 seconds. Any ideas what this is?
Okay, let me fill you in on the details of repairs and maintenance, as well as the car itself.
Car: 1995 Hatchback w/ D16Z6, 90k+miles, manual trans.
I am averaging only 20 mpg... safe driving, no racing or anything (car is too slow for that
)
Recent work:
Your help is very much appreciated!!!
My theory is the timing needs to be adjusted, because I have read similar issues about poor low end performance and poor mpg's that point to the timing. Also, when my car was failing smog, a technician did retard the timing back in order to help it pass, and it was never set back. BUT.... Recently, when my car was at ANOTHER shop, they checked the timing and said it was within spec. It is approximately 6 degrees BTDC. HOWEVER, On the other hand, a certified smog inspection station owner claimed that 6 degrees BTDC is FAILING and failed my car for this (smog issue was solved and not my current problem)
Now, when I say poor low end performance, essentially the car does not get up like it used to, it lacks torque. big time. The engine lacks power until it reaches enough RPM's for the VTEC to engage, everytime. You can watch the tach and as SOON as it reaches 4k, you feel a big difference. That being said, my car is slow, very very slow these days from a stop or low speeds. On the freeway, it does pretty well, does not really lack on acceleration.
Another thing to add, my car idles very low, especially while driving and you take it out of gear and coast.. the rpm's drop to <500. Refer to the list below before you say CLEAN THE IACV! (already has been done)
Last question I have: My car after it has been driven, makes a clack sound that is quite audible. I understand that metal contracts after the car has been shut off but this sound is louder, almost like someone is tapping the block with a screwdriver. The sound is heard as one loud "tap / clack" about every 20 seconds. Any ideas what this is?
Okay, let me fill you in on the details of repairs and maintenance, as well as the car itself.
Car: 1995 Hatchback w/ D16Z6, 90k+miles, manual trans.
I am averaging only 20 mpg... safe driving, no racing or anything (car is too slow for that
)Recent work:
- New Distributor
- New plugs and wires
- New fuel filter
- Recent oil change
- New battery and cables
- New catalytic convertor
- New oxygen sensor
- CLEANED IACV ****
Your help is very much appreciated!!!
12-02-2012, 02:02 PM
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Re: Many repairs done, poor low end performance and mpg's continues
Double check ignition and mechanical timing. Perform a full tune up if overdue. What do the plugs look like? Running rich? Check O2 sensor. What does it look like? Any CELs? Engine may just be old and tired. Maybe try performing compression and leakdown tests. Hopefully that sound isn't rod knock.
12-02-2012, 09:42 PM
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Re: Many repairs done, poor low end performance and mpg's continues
Double check ignition and mechanical timing. Perform a full tune up if overdue. What do the plugs look like? Running rich? Check O2 sensor. What does it look like? Any CELs? Engine may just be old and tired. Maybe try performing compression and leakdown tests. Hopefully that sound isn't rod knock.
The sound that I brought up is definitely not rod knock, it is audible when the car is off after driving only, so it may just be some metal contracting, I am thinking it is from the header.
The timing has been checked before, and the tech mentioned that 6 degrees BTDC is within spec for all the engines that are available for my Civic, including the D16. However, one smog technician has said that 6 degrees BTDC is way off.
12-03-2012, 12:09 AM
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Re: Many repairs done, poor low end performance and mpg's continues
12-03-2012, 08:27 AM
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Re: Many repairs done, poor low end performance and mpg's continues
6 degs. will make a difference. It should definitely bring your Idle up and help with acceleration. Keep us updated.
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12-07-2012, 10:45 AM
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Re: Many repairs done, poor low end performance and mpg's continues
Okay guys, I just got back from the shop with some news. Let me tell you the story. If you do not care to read it, just scroll to the bottom.
I get to the shop this morning, and the tech that looked at my car a few weeks ago came to me and asked me what is going on. When I told him what was happening, he brought up that we had already looked at it and when he last checked the timing, it was in spec, and basically assured me that it was good... I did not accept that answer.
I then told him about all the repairs done and about the poor performance and mileage, also the fact that I have done my research on the problem as well as posted about it on honda-tech.com. So he went ahead and checked it again. Sure enough he told me it was at about 4 degrees BTDC. I thought to myself: BAM! I knew it!
The owner of the shop comes out to verify, he is a master mechanic with many years of experience and finds out something interesting. He told me that when they first looked at the timing, they were looking at the wrong indicator. Turns out that someone had etched another notch on the harmonic balancer on the BTDC side. The owner mentioned to me that he has been dealing with that a lot in the past and people do it to "trick" the smog technicians to pass the timing inspection when they have advanced it.
Success!! the car runs SO much better... seriously feels like a new engine, that's quite a difference!
Thank you guys for your replies!!!
I get to the shop this morning, and the tech that looked at my car a few weeks ago came to me and asked me what is going on. When I told him what was happening, he brought up that we had already looked at it and when he last checked the timing, it was in spec, and basically assured me that it was good... I did not accept that answer.
I then told him about all the repairs done and about the poor performance and mileage, also the fact that I have done my research on the problem as well as posted about it on honda-tech.com. So he went ahead and checked it again. Sure enough he told me it was at about 4 degrees BTDC. I thought to myself: BAM! I knew it!
The owner of the shop comes out to verify, he is a master mechanic with many years of experience and finds out something interesting. He told me that when they first looked at the timing, they were looking at the wrong indicator. Turns out that someone had etched another notch on the harmonic balancer on the BTDC side. The owner mentioned to me that he has been dealing with that a lot in the past and people do it to "trick" the smog technicians to pass the timing inspection when they have advanced it.
Success!! the car runs SO much better... seriously feels like a new engine, that's quite a difference!
Thank you guys for your replies!!!
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