ls vtec pros and cons?
10-07-2006, 09:26 AM
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Re: ls vtec pros and cons? (ek4ferrio)
well you can always search to find out, but a couple pros are getting a slight bit more torque and the cost is usually lower when you build it yourself. i wouldn't suggest attempting this if you don't have alot of knowledge about motors.
10-07-2006, 11:11 AM
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Re: ls vtec pros and cons? (pat92si)
the LS/VTEC wont be as reliable as a factory built GSR/ITR motor....................
no oil squirters as well soo the bottom end will take a lot more punishment and the LS bottom end is not made to spin past 7500rpm................
also, as with any frankenstein motor, it will have its share of running issues and tuning is a must to get the power out of this particular motor
some good parts of this motor are the added torque and the cost...............mine ran a 14.6@97mph in a 99 EK coupe................also, i would get any VTEC tranny soo it will not drop out of VTEC..........
no oil squirters as well soo the bottom end will take a lot more punishment and the LS bottom end is not made to spin past 7500rpm................
also, as with any frankenstein motor, it will have its share of running issues and tuning is a must to get the power out of this particular motor
some good parts of this motor are the added torque and the cost...............mine ran a 14.6@97mph in a 99 EK coupe................also, i would get any VTEC tranny soo it will not drop out of VTEC..........
10-07-2006, 12:31 PM
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Re: ls vtec pros and cons? (Superdragr45)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Superdragr45 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">no oil squirters as well soo the bottom end will take a lot more punishment and the LS bottom end is not made to spin past 7500rpm................</TD></TR></TABLE>
Are there any ways you'd suggest to relieve the stress on the bottom end?
Sorry to threadjack.
Are there any ways you'd suggest to relieve the stress on the bottom end?
Sorry to threadjack.
10-07-2006, 12:36 PM
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Re: ls vtec pros and cons? (Superdragr45)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Superdragr45 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the LS/VTEC wont be as reliable as a factory built GSR/ITR motor....................
no oil squirters as well soo the bottom end will take a lot more punishment and the LS bottom end is not made to spin past 7500rpm................
also, as with any frankenstein motor, it will have its share of running issues and tuning is a must to get the power out of this particular motor
some good parts of this motor are the added torque and the cost...............mine ran a 14.6@97mph in a 99 EK coupe................also, i would get any VTEC tranny soo it will not drop out of VTEC..........
</TD></TR></TABLE>
first three statements are not true. spinning past 7500, true. but thats where arp hardware comes into play. it depends on who builds it and with what parts.
no oil squirters as well soo the bottom end will take a lot more punishment and the LS bottom end is not made to spin past 7500rpm................
also, as with any frankenstein motor, it will have its share of running issues and tuning is a must to get the power out of this particular motor
some good parts of this motor are the added torque and the cost...............mine ran a 14.6@97mph in a 99 EK coupe................also, i would get any VTEC tranny soo it will not drop out of VTEC..........
</TD></TR></TABLE>
first three statements are not true. spinning past 7500, true. but thats where arp hardware comes into play. it depends on who builds it and with what parts.
10-07-2006, 02:11 PM
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Re: ls vtec pros and cons? (brick top)
if ur saying a LS/V is reliable, ur trippin. that motor can be strong but i wouldnt daily drive it. but, everyone builds those motors differently and they all behave differently.
and yes mr. brick top, ARP hardware is wat went into my LS/VTEC and it is definetely worth the extra money for some strength.
and yes mr. brick top, ARP hardware is wat went into my LS/VTEC and it is definetely worth the extra money for some strength.
10-07-2006, 08:12 PM
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Re: ls vtec pros and cons? (Superdragr45)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Superdragr45 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if ur saying a LS/V is reliable, ur trippin. that motor can be strong but i wouldnt daily drive it. </TD></TR></TABLE>
that is the dumbest **** i have read on here all month.
that is the dumbest **** i have read on here all month.
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10-07-2006, 08:48 PM
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Re: ls vtec pros and cons? (brick top)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by brick top »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">that is the dumbest **** i have read on here all month.</TD></TR></TABLE>
go put it in ur sig...............
BTW, thats my two cents on reliability. how is this motor going to be driven??? just track or daily beating?? a motors reliability is all in how its driven. honestly, if its built right, it could last awhile. but, if its a stock bottom end and watever VTEC head he wants, it wont last long and wouldnt peform as well as it could............
go put it in ur sig...............
BTW, thats my two cents on reliability. how is this motor going to be driven??? just track or daily beating?? a motors reliability is all in how its driven. honestly, if its built right, it could last awhile. but, if its a stock bottom end and watever VTEC head he wants, it wont last long and wouldnt peform as well as it could............
10-07-2006, 08:54 PM
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The Down Side. The B18a/b has a low r/s ratio 1.53 which is not bad compared to the 1.58 of a gsr. The b18a/b was not made to rev over 7000 r.p.m's so it has poor lubrication, bad rod bolts, rods, oil and water pumps, and piston valve relief’s. You can fix all these problems, as you can install vtec block oil squirters for lubricating the rods and piston. This helps to save the pistons, rods and bearings at high rpm's. You can install ARP rod bolts. And get upgraded rods or shot-peined. Also some vtec pistons are recommended
10-07-2006, 08:55 PM
#10
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Oil lines. The Ls block does not have a Vtec oil passage (you need this hole to produce the oil pressure to lock the vtec lobes rocker arm) so you will need to tap the hole on the head or weld it shut. When threading it shut use a 1/8ntp fitting. Its best to have a machine shop thread it for the 1/8th fitting and then just screw it in. Next you have to make an external line from the oil pressure sender to the head. Use a 4an to 3/8th ntp plug on the head to a steal braided line to tee'd of to the oil pressure sender hole. You will need a 1/8th tee fitting, a 1/8th to 3/4th's fitting for the line to the tee, a 1/8th to 1/8th adapter to plug the block, and plug the oil pressure sender in the back of the tee. So it will look like this (the T will be used as the tee fitting) 18th to 1/8th adapter T oil pressure sender sensor oil line to head. A suggestion is to have the tee fitting so it is not directly on the block (especially if you are installing an oil pressure gauge) as it can literally crack the threads and you will shoot oil everywhere. So try to run ss lines to someplace that can support the weight.
10-07-2006, 08:58 PM
#11
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Ls/vtec is the mating of the B18A/B to a B-series Vtec head like the B18C1, B18C5, B17A or B16A head. The amazing part about this swap is that the Ls blocks did not come with Vtec so there are a few mods you need to know to do the swap right.
A. GENERAL INFORMATION
1. The Down Side. The B18a/b has a low r/s ratio 1.53 which is not bad compared to the 1.58 of a gsr. The b18a/b was not made to rev over 7000 r.p.m's so it has poor lubrication, bad rod bolts, rods, oil and water pumps, and piston valve relief’s. You can fix all these problems, as you can install vtec block oil squirters for lubricating the rods and piston. This helps to save the pistons, rods and bearings at high rpm's. You can install ARP rod bolts. And get upgraded rods or shot-peined. Also some vtec pistons are recommended.
2. Oil lines. The Ls block does not have a Vtec oil passage (you need this hole to produce the oil pressure to lock the vtec lobes rocker arm) so you will need to tap the hole on the head or weld it shut. When threading it shut use a 1/8ntp fitting. Its best to have a machine shop thread it for the 1/8th fitting and then just screw it in. Next you have to make an external line from the oil pressure sender to the head. Use a 4an to 3/8th ntp plug on the head to a steal braided line to tee'd of to the oil pressure sender hole. You will need a 1/8th tee fitting, a 1/8th to 3/4th's fitting for the line to the tee, a 1/8th to 1/8th adapter to plug the block, and plug the oil pressure sender in the back of the tee. So it will look like this (the T will be used as the tee fitting) 18th to 1/8th adapter T oil pressure sender sensor oil line to head. A suggestion is to have the tee fitting so it is not directly on the block (especially if you are installing an oil pressure gauge) as it can literally crack the threads and you will shoot oil everywhere. So try to run ss lines to someplace that can support the weight.
3. You will use the Ls head gasket.
4. Dowel pins: The head needs to be modified for the dowel pins to fit. You have to move and re-drill the dowel pins to be able to fit the head. On the intake side right below where you put the 1/8pipe fitting that plugs the vtec oil passage, you will drill and install one of the dowel pins and do the same on the other side at the exact same point.
5. Timing belt. You will use the Ls timing belt if you use the Ls water pump and the gsr if you use a vtec B17/16 or B18c1/5.
6. Head studs. You will use the vtec head studs for the ls/vtec set-up. I suggest ARP if you want to spend the money.
7. Oil Pump. The oil pumps on the ls's suck so you might want to upgrade to a vtec one or a b20 as they are same part number as the gsr.
8. Heads. There are many heads you can use and there are little differences between them.
First off there is the GSR head which give you a higher compression than the other b-series heads because of its 41.6cc combustion chamber. The smaller combustion chamber makes .2 more compression. Then there is the b16/17a head which are the same the only difference is that the b17a has a p61 stamped on the back of the intake manifold the b16/17a head is a better flowing head 5.25% in fact and a larger combustion chamber 42.7cc's. Then there is the type r which flows even better than the b16a head and has the same combustion chamber. To put this in perspective the b18a/b has a 45cc combustion chamber.
9. GSR Block Girdle. You can use the GSR block girdle on the ls. This will reinforce the bottom end and keep the moving parts in its place. All you need to get is the 3 main caps in the middle, bolts, windage, oil pan and oil pick.
10. Pistons. You can use any b-series vtec piston in your ls block. Any 1.6 b-series piston will be raised by about one full point in the ls block like the b16a(pr3 pistons will raise it from the stock 10.2 comp in the b16a to 11.2ish in the ls block so keep this in mind when building the ls block. Also keep in mind about the combustion chamber size (See heads) when building the motor. . With a GSR, add .2 comp to the stock ratio. (Warning: these are all estimates: they could be off a little).
B16a head and pr3 pistons 11.2
B16a head and p30 pistons 11.4
B16a head and p72 (ao) pistons 9.9
B16a head and p72 (00) pistons 10.5
B16a head and p73 (ao) pistons 10.7
B16a head and p73 (00) pistons 11.2
B16a head and p61 pistons 10.4
B16a head and pct (CTR) pistons 12.2-3ish
B16a head and pr4 pistons 9.5
Add .2 to all to calculate the GSR head with all of these.
Type r and b17a heads have the same combustion chamber so calculates the same.
11. Conclusion. This information should help you get an idea of what it takes to build an LS/VTEC motor. As always, please, if you don’t know what you are doing, call a mechanic who can help you with anything
A. GENERAL INFORMATION
1. The Down Side. The B18a/b has a low r/s ratio 1.53 which is not bad compared to the 1.58 of a gsr. The b18a/b was not made to rev over 7000 r.p.m's so it has poor lubrication, bad rod bolts, rods, oil and water pumps, and piston valve relief’s. You can fix all these problems, as you can install vtec block oil squirters for lubricating the rods and piston. This helps to save the pistons, rods and bearings at high rpm's. You can install ARP rod bolts. And get upgraded rods or shot-peined. Also some vtec pistons are recommended.
2. Oil lines. The Ls block does not have a Vtec oil passage (you need this hole to produce the oil pressure to lock the vtec lobes rocker arm) so you will need to tap the hole on the head or weld it shut. When threading it shut use a 1/8ntp fitting. Its best to have a machine shop thread it for the 1/8th fitting and then just screw it in. Next you have to make an external line from the oil pressure sender to the head. Use a 4an to 3/8th ntp plug on the head to a steal braided line to tee'd of to the oil pressure sender hole. You will need a 1/8th tee fitting, a 1/8th to 3/4th's fitting for the line to the tee, a 1/8th to 1/8th adapter to plug the block, and plug the oil pressure sender in the back of the tee. So it will look like this (the T will be used as the tee fitting) 18th to 1/8th adapter T oil pressure sender sensor oil line to head. A suggestion is to have the tee fitting so it is not directly on the block (especially if you are installing an oil pressure gauge) as it can literally crack the threads and you will shoot oil everywhere. So try to run ss lines to someplace that can support the weight.
3. You will use the Ls head gasket.
4. Dowel pins: The head needs to be modified for the dowel pins to fit. You have to move and re-drill the dowel pins to be able to fit the head. On the intake side right below where you put the 1/8pipe fitting that plugs the vtec oil passage, you will drill and install one of the dowel pins and do the same on the other side at the exact same point.
5. Timing belt. You will use the Ls timing belt if you use the Ls water pump and the gsr if you use a vtec B17/16 or B18c1/5.
6. Head studs. You will use the vtec head studs for the ls/vtec set-up. I suggest ARP if you want to spend the money.
7. Oil Pump. The oil pumps on the ls's suck so you might want to upgrade to a vtec one or a b20 as they are same part number as the gsr.
8. Heads. There are many heads you can use and there are little differences between them.
First off there is the GSR head which give you a higher compression than the other b-series heads because of its 41.6cc combustion chamber. The smaller combustion chamber makes .2 more compression. Then there is the b16/17a head which are the same the only difference is that the b17a has a p61 stamped on the back of the intake manifold the b16/17a head is a better flowing head 5.25% in fact and a larger combustion chamber 42.7cc's. Then there is the type r which flows even better than the b16a head and has the same combustion chamber. To put this in perspective the b18a/b has a 45cc combustion chamber.
9. GSR Block Girdle. You can use the GSR block girdle on the ls. This will reinforce the bottom end and keep the moving parts in its place. All you need to get is the 3 main caps in the middle, bolts, windage, oil pan and oil pick.
10. Pistons. You can use any b-series vtec piston in your ls block. Any 1.6 b-series piston will be raised by about one full point in the ls block like the b16a(pr3 pistons will raise it from the stock 10.2 comp in the b16a to 11.2ish in the ls block so keep this in mind when building the ls block. Also keep in mind about the combustion chamber size (See heads) when building the motor. . With a GSR, add .2 comp to the stock ratio. (Warning: these are all estimates: they could be off a little).
B16a head and pr3 pistons 11.2
B16a head and p30 pistons 11.4
B16a head and p72 (ao) pistons 9.9
B16a head and p72 (00) pistons 10.5
B16a head and p73 (ao) pistons 10.7
B16a head and p73 (00) pistons 11.2
B16a head and p61 pistons 10.4
B16a head and pct (CTR) pistons 12.2-3ish
B16a head and pr4 pistons 9.5
Add .2 to all to calculate the GSR head with all of these.
Type r and b17a heads have the same combustion chamber so calculates the same.
11. Conclusion. This information should help you get an idea of what it takes to build an LS/VTEC motor. As always, please, if you don’t know what you are doing, call a mechanic who can help you with anything
10-08-2006, 09:38 AM
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Re: (rniederlando)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rniederlando »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Does all of this info hold true to cr/vtec setups as well?</TD></TR></TABLE>
For the most part yes. You basically have to look into aftermarket pistons for any power. Honda doesn't make any pistons with sufficient valve reliefs for the 84mm bore found in the b20.
For the most part yes. You basically have to look into aftermarket pistons for any power. Honda doesn't make any pistons with sufficient valve reliefs for the 84mm bore found in the b20.
10-08-2006, 09:50 AM
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Re: (B20 EJ6)
i used to have a b20vtec. it had pistons and cams and some other ****, but i ran it WAY too hard for two long without a good tune. and now its dead. im sure the same is gonna be expected from the ls vtec im running now. as far as not being reliable...my buddy spend fairly good money on his ls vtec turbo set up..ran it for a while and it was fine. he sold the car and they guy that has it now basically chases his shadow with it, no problems either. so i guess it is all in the build.
im running an ls vtec now too, still breaking it in. i have a b16 head on it, paired with a b16 tranny. also ITR pistons. i have to put 1600 kilo on it (since i have a jap cluster) only at about 350...so hopefully all goes well this time around. so far though im likin it. hard to tell but you can kinda feel the power, like the car wants to rip from second gear. my b20vtec was fast (at least to me) and had a lot or tourqe...i just hope my ls vtec doesnt let me down..lol.
imma tune with crome at the end of the month (or whenever i break the motor in)
im running an ls vtec now too, still breaking it in. i have a b16 head on it, paired with a b16 tranny. also ITR pistons. i have to put 1600 kilo on it (since i have a jap cluster) only at about 350...so hopefully all goes well this time around. so far though im likin it. hard to tell but you can kinda feel the power, like the car wants to rip from second gear. my b20vtec was fast (at least to me) and had a lot or tourqe...i just hope my ls vtec doesnt let me down..lol.
imma tune with crome at the end of the month (or whenever i break the motor in)
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