mattbatson

1999 civic EX with d16y7 with a y8 head (bought it this way about a year ago...previous engine blew a rod, so they used a y7 block and put the old y8 head back on)

It has been losing oil since I bought it.
No smoke, or leaks on ground...

So I put over 40k miles on it a year...driving down to florida from Asheville NC once a month to see my son. And this last trip I blew the coolant line under the intake that makes a U-turn onto itself...little pin hole and started spraying coolant. I immediately shut down and coasted to stop on side of 95. Temp gauge never went up (it was cold)
So I get a tow and get the hose replaced and drive the rest of the way home.

I see oil in the reservoir tank, and when engine is cold and idling and I have the radiator cap off there is coolant burping up out of the radiator when I blip throttle.

So pretty sure I need a head gasket.

Never done one before, but I am an ok mechanic and not and idiot and I take my time (have another car to drive in meantime)

I found video's on youtube like this one - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qUw5Vm-tnQ

and feel pretty confident I can do this.

My question was, should I go the extra effort to buy a head gasket from a dealer and get OEM? Or will an Advance Auto head gasket be okay?
Same question with intake mani gasket...and exhaust mani gasket...

Lastly, I'm even considering having the machine shop, on top of everything else they will do...shave a little off for a nice little compression bump. Nothing severe. I run super gas anyways, so figured why not?

thanks

matt

Chance EG

Don't spend the extra cash getting the machine shop to mill the head. You're running a 25 year old SOHC 4 banger, do you really think there will be any noticeable gain there? And why are you running 93/91 octane fuel in your stock car? If you car isn't tuned to take advantage of the extra octane, there's no performance or MPG gain to be had there... Seriously just blowing money out the tailpipe on this one.

Oreilly/Autozone/Advanced gaskets will be 100% fine. Good luck on your repairs, but I just think you need to actually treat this engine for what it is.

Schister66

Milling the head is only useful to true up the surfaces - you won't notice a thing on the butt dyno.

I agree with the fuel comment above. Running anything more than 87 is just wasted since its still running a stock ECU.

TomCat39

There is two possible plusses to running premium gas.

1) Much more likley to get petrol only gas (no ethanol). Here in BC at Chevron, their 94 premium does not contain ethanol so mpg jumps considerably. I don't think all brands supreme are like that though.

2) Supposedly supreme gas has the most "cleaners" in it so in theory keep the motor cleaner for the extra dollars per tank.

Both of these are only possible plusses and only #1 is really a benefit if you can find ethanol free gas consistently for the extra dollars.

Other than that, I too totally agree it's a waste of cash putting anything over 87 octane into these stock cars.

24TEN

iTrader: (2)

There are benefits to the higher compression, just depends on how high you actually go. On my 91 Civic, I ended up with .060" off the head (see the 88-91 FAQ for pics and description) and it runs better and cleaner with more fuel efficiency than ever before while almost matching my old DOHC ZC on the 1/8th mile.

Outside of that though, I'd agree you really only want to true up the surface the minimal amount required which is usually in the neighborhood of .003-.005" if at all. Not sure what your local prices are but it's only $25 at my local machine shop, hardly breaking the bank to ensure that the headgasket will seat and seal properly.

mattbatson

Thank you all for the responses

I didn't expect as much reaction to the super/regular gas part of my post...and I guess I should have clarified that when I first bought the car I thought I heard detonation under load.

I did check timing, if I remember, and did a tune up with new plugs (they seemed to be fine) and so forth. I also started running premium as I had heard it was just a few hundred extra per year over regular...and I figured cheap insurance as detonation will destroy a motor quickly.

Now, the prices between regular and premium have spread a bit over the last few months it seems, and I drive a lot more than average, so it probably IS costing me more than a few hundred extra per year.

Good points.

I knew that increasing the compression on an engine will give it more hp and also increase it's efficiency.
I wasn't looking for huge hp, as this just needs to be a reliable commuter for now.
So, with that in mind, I do think just having them true up the surface would be the best route

I was also going to obviously have them check for cracks, clean the head, and so on...
Cost is not an issue, as I would rather have it done right the first time. I don't really want to have to pull the head again anytime soon

Which is why I had asked about the quality of the head gaskets.

If an advanced or autozone head gasket is just as proven as an OEM one (or same manufacturer, etc) then I'll just get one of those. I'm sure they are a lot cheaper.
But again. I only want to do this once.

thanks

matt

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

felpro gaskets are 100% ok. ive used them many, many times with zero issues. felpro produces gaskets for a bunch of car manufacturers, and has been making gaskets for almost 100 years. anyone who says any different is uninformed or an oem part fanboi. i do agree with checking the head for true, etc.

mattbatson

Thank you sir
I really appreciate it.
and hell yeah on checking the head...

thanks

mattbatson

****, I forgot my other question
Should I get new head bolts?
Should I get the good stuff? ARP?

or will, again, just no name advanced auto bolts be sufficient?

thanks,

matt

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

i usually say no to new bolts, but since the previous owner may have removed/tightened them out of sequence, and there is no real way of knowing how many times they've been reused, id say its worth the money to buy a new set.

Chance EG

ARP would be overkill, but new OEM studs (do auto shops make head studs?) would probably be a decent idea if you can get them at a reasonable price.

Also, weird that you were still getting detonation on the engine even after checking the timing and plugs....

Edit: Did you check the timing on the belt only, or also at the distributor?

TomCat39

If it's a high mileage engine (sounds like being the MLS head gasket has given out) then there could be significant carbon build up causing hot spots and detonation under load.

My wifes old beater D15b carburetor block with B7 head is that way. Climbing hills you hear a little bit of pinging on 87 octane. Not enough for me to be worried as the engine will be swapped long before it actually dies but just enough to know the engine is old and seriously tired. Blows a bit of blue on high rpm too.

The other thing that could also do it is if the head gasket has already been swapped and went with a thinner gasket. This bump in static compression ratio can cause pinging until the ignition timing is retarded some. My old B7 with Z6 felpro head gasket is like that, reason being the quench zone has gone below optimal space of 0.035" to 0.040".

If the Y7 pistons are dished, you probably won't run into that same issue quite as easily. The B7 has a flat 0.002" piston to deck height so the HG thickness is critical I learned.

Really, if you can be sure your premium is ethanol free, it may very well be worth the extra.

The couple of times I unknowingly landed pure gas on 87 octane my fuel efficiency was about 4-7 mpg higher than normal. Instead of ranging between 30-34 mpg those couple of times I shot right up to 37.8-40.6 mpg.

In my parts, the math doesn't work out, but it might in yours if you can be sure your premium is ethanol free. It's something you would have to monitor religiously and experiment with to verify.

LiteraCola

A new gas station that has Ethanol-free gas just opened up in my area. I might have to run a tank or two through my "beast" to see if it makes a difference. I'm a cheap bastard, so I'll try anything to save a few cents... just so I can blow it on a project car!

mattbatson

See now I learned something new again...
off to google and youtube to see about setting timing at distributor...

Also, Advance Auto does not seem to sell head bolts. At least I couldn't find them online. If my only option is the dealer, then ARP might actually be cheaper...
I'll look into it

thanks

mattbatson

Yes, there is no way to tell what has happened with the engine. The car has about 200k on it. The head, I believe, is the original head, but has been off so you would think it was possibly milled and cleaned...The block is a y7 block (cause the shop had a hard time finding a y8), and supposedly came from a 60k mile car...but that could be bull. Just don't know.

And from the beginning the car would lose oil pretty quickly. You had to keep and eye on it, especially over my long trips at 80mph to florida.
So, as weird as it sounds, I think the head gasket has been leaking for 40k miles. Not sure if that is possible. But the car runs fantastic. Just perfect actually.

even now...and I'm certain the head gasket is leaking...


I was thinking of running water mixed with a little simple green or purple power degreaser through the radiator and engine? I figure there is oil coating a lot of stuff inside like water pump and thermostat and so on....


thanks

matt

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

rockauto.com

TomCat39

How are you certain?

I really can't think of a time that a HG started leaking and the car runs fantastic, just perfect actually....

These two things I don't believe go together.

Compression Test? Piston top inspection through spark plug holes? Block Test? Milky oil?

I'm not sure how you are so certain the HG is a problem.

mattbatson

tomorrow I will compression test and let you know

thanks

mattbatson

Ok,
compression test showed 130 to 150 in all cylinders

which...might explain why it is running so well...

I did notice the plugs, which are not that old, were all chalky white on insulator and electrode
I'll try and include a pic...

ok, pic wouldn't load...

anyways, I'll check from airbox to intake for leaks (all stock)
and then I'll check timing and also distributor timing
and then maybe consider hotter plugs?
NGK Racing ZFR5F-11 are what is in there now

TomCat39

How white? An off white or stark white. The plug you posted is the correct plug for the engine:



For photo's you can upload them directly to your post




End result looks like this after embedding the images



To see the post you are reading with pics.

tamboo

https://www.ngksparkplugs.com/about-...d-a-spark-plug

mattbatson

Hey,
Yes I tried that and it said 10 percent complete and wouldn't fully load...
I can try again.
However, the chart that tamboo posted after you seems to match the one picture of normal wear and tear...but just worn out...in need of replacement

TomCat39

You have to reduce the size of the picture or pictures.

I learned the hard way. The forum reduces the display of large pictures but the full picture is actually there. As a fail safe, it has a timer on the upload and uploads at a certain maximum speed. Massive pictures exceed that timer and it fails. Which is a good thing cause a 13 mega pixel photo can really slow down a thread to load.

My build thread had high resolution photos and it took forever to load. I've since reduced them and it loads much more reasonably.

I understand there is some free online resources to "optimize" your photo's for the web. You were trying to upload printer ready photo's instead of web optimized photo's.

By the sounds of the spark plugs and the list Tamboo provided. I still struggle to see where you believe your HG is failing. Decent compression on all 4, worn but burning well plugs without lots of deposits and yeah.

I think you are being paranoid much like I was when I first got my Honda. I unfortunately threw 1500 dollars away when I didn't need to with an engine swap and new clutch and new transmission etc etc.

It's been a fun learning process but not as economical as it could have been.

crazyhorse2011

If you go to a parts store, only get Gates belts, gaskets, and hoses. Dont bother with generics. The extra 20% cost is worth the peace of mind. If you go to a dealership they will probably give you Honda OEM at a 100% markup, which ironically was manufactured by Gates if my memory serves me correctly. Gates and Honda OEM is the only way to go.

TLDR: Get Gates

TheJGB3

Actually a set of OEM bolts is less then $35, and the ARP stud set is $140

The OEM bolts list for $3.45ea. 10 total are required the part# is 90008-PZ1-003

https://www.hondapartsnow.com/genuin...-pz1-003.html?