I Like Hondas

Hello honda-tech.

I've got a '93 Civic cx hatch that I picked up in May 2007. I bought it bone stock! It was exactly what I wanted. Perfect white paint, no huge problems. Perfect. My original plans were to do the suspension brakes and everything like that before the motor.

Then I came across what I thought was a "deal" on a motor. I decided to go against my original plan and do the swap first. I was going between boosted d series or N/A B series. This motor I found was basically a poormans R. B18C1 bottom end CTR pistons (bored out .40 which at the time I didn't know was pretty crazy.) B16 sir head with Omni valves, retainers and springs. ITR cams. And a b16 transmission. I was getting all that plus the help with the swap for $2500. I though it was a pretty good deal. i though the guy I was buying it from was a much better person than he turned out to be. So the motor was already out of his car when I bought it. I never did a compression test or anything like that.

So we got to work on the swap. It ended up taking forever to do. I was (and still am) no pro on working on cars so he was leading the swap. After two weeks it was done. There were still little things to fix. Like getting a bigger exhaust and things like that. There were some noises and what not but he would just blame them on things like it pinging because of the little exhaust and what not. I didn't think much of it.

Well a few weeks after that the car almost overheated. I was driving and it got super hot. So I pull over and call him. He drives out and hard wires my fan on and pulls the thermostat. It was a temporary fix. Well after that it was just little issue after issue. I would try to call him to help fix them but he left town. I ended up going to this other shop Yonke Racing. I thought that was a good shop too. Until I got my car back. I had him do a water pump timing belt and headgasket after all that over heating. It turns out he did a bunch of crap work and charged me about $1000. That included some other random things like fixing the vtec that never worked and what not but still not a 1000 worth of work. Especially when it was all crap work!

Well now 6 months after the swap it still runs terrible and im out like $3500-4000 on it. the problems now are bad rings. It shot 180-180-190-210 compression... And somethings up with the tranny. It could just be a throwout bearing.

I'm really loosing my motivation on the whole project after all of this junk i've had dished to me. I hardly want to keep dropping money into a motor this weak and i'm not wanting to pay for another swap. Even if I were to do it myself this time I would still be buying the motor. I've spent at least 5k on the motor and random labor ive paid for. I dont want to put anymore into it, but I would kind of have to if I keep the car. Its no fun driving a motor with this much blow by and a tranny that sounds like a broken dishwasher.


So i guess the entire reason for this thread is this:

Do I:

A. Keep this motor and re-build it.

B. Buy a new GSR swap from Hmotors

C. Go turbo Dseries

D. Leave this motor and quit bitching

E. Sell the car and buy an S2k with the money of the sale and money saved for a new motor combined

F. Your idea that you just posted


Seriously, any ideas and help are apreciated greatly! Please post them.


Modified by I Like Hondas at 8:49 PM 6/8/2008

95sloweg

I basically had the same **** happen to me, i bought my car in may of 07, which was also bone stock and got ripped off when i bought a LS/v. I just gave up on that motor. So i lost a couple thousand and just bought a D16. My plans now are to swap a B16 by the end of this summer.


Modified by 95sloweg at 11:39 PM 6/8/2008

I Like Hondas

That is an option. Where did you get the D from?

boondocks1805

It all depends on what your power goals are, I am currently working on a D15B build because it is cheaper than all the other series. I have a K20 that has been built up 3 times due to trial and error.....I must say the D15B is by far the cheapest and easiest build I have done so far.....Besides for less than 5K I will be pushing 350-375 WHP......Get at me if you want to know what parts and stuff I will be running....

95sloweg

i got the d from a friend.

JdelMsolG

if you make a decision to scrap the motor you have, pm me and i'll buy some of those parts off of you.

Rainy City

You guys need to learn to buy things. Buying a used motor with the option of testing it and just forgoing it is not the wisest decesion. I would take the motor out and rebuild it and drop in a d16 for the time being. Weather or not to build the motor for N/A Boost is your option but don't rebuild it stock for stock; thats no fun.

Don't go buy another swap from the big H-O, save your money. You don't need 2 of the same motors and be $6000 in.

I Like Hondas

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boondocks1805 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It all depends on what your power goals are, I am currently working on a D15B build because it is cheaper than all the other series. I have a K20 that has been built up 3 times due to trial and error.....I must say the D15B is by far the cheapest and easiest build I have done so far.....Besides for less than 5K I will be pushing 350-375 WHP......Get at me if you want to know what parts and stuff I will be running....</TD></TR></TABLE>PM'd you back.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JdelMsolG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you make a decision to scrap the motor you have, pm me and i'll buy some of those parts off of you.</TD></TR></TABLE>Pm'd.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rainy City &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You guys need to learn to buy things. Buying a used motor with the option of testing it and just forgoing it is not the wisest decesion. I would take the motor out and rebuild it and drop in a d16 for the time being. Weather or not to build the motor for N/A Boost is your option but don't rebuild it stock for stock; thats no fun.

Don't go buy another swap from the big H-O, save your money. You don't need 2 of the same motors and be $6000 in.</TD></TR></TABLE>Very good point. thank you

CivicSpoon

Do not turbocharger a D-series engine. If something goes wrong with a turbo'd car, it's going to be more of a problem than just a lightly built engine. Just go with the B18C1 and when you get more knowledge about car, then consider doing something more.

.Enigma.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CivicSpoon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Do not turbocharger a D-series engine. If something goes wrong with a turbo'd car, it's going to be more of a problem than just a lightly built engine. Just go with the B18C1 and when you get more knowledge about car, then consider doing something more.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The B18C1 is going to cost more than a D. He could end up with the same problem.

I'd pull the motor and drop in the stocker, if you still have it. Sell the B in parts and make your money back if you can. With that money you can get a D cheep and rebuild it or build it for boost. A rebuilt stock D should handle 200 whp well.

If you go with a built boosted D expect about 300 whp. A built D doesn't sound like the best option due to the limited airflow of the head.

You could rebuild a D.. boost it.. play with it.. sell it.. get a LS and boost it.. play with it.. sell it.. then get a K.



If I could afford it.. I'd go with a K24 block and K20 head with boost all over the place!

Peace,
E

westcoast1994

i would... if you still have your old motor swap that back in so you don't further any damage. either sell or rebuild that poor mans setup. if you sell get a clean low mileage motor from a reputable company.

and if you end up rebuilding that poor mans' , do it right the first time.

personaly, i have pratcially the same car its just a 95 bone stock. i plan on having a low mileage b18c swapped into it. i don't trust any shops in my area so i'll end up driving it back home "cali".

i hope this helps

PyroProblem

Id swap in a stock B20 longblock,keep your tranny(replace the TO bearing),
part out your b18c engine and come out about even, but with a healthy engine that has more TQ, and the ability to accept a vtec head later down the road.

CivicSpoon

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .Enigma. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The B18C1 is going to cost more than a D. He could end up with the same problem.

I'd pull the motor and drop in the stocker, if you still have it. Sell the B in parts and make your money back if you can. With that money you can get a D cheep and rebuild it or build it for boost. A rebuilt stock D should handle 200 whp well.

If you go with a built boosted D expect about 300 whp. A built D doesn't sound like the best option due to the limited airflow of the head.

You could rebuild a D.. boost it.. play with it.. sell it.. get a LS and boost it.. play with it.. sell it.. then get a K.



If I could afford it.. I'd go with a K24 block and K20 head with boost all over the place!

Peace,
E</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, it will cost more to do a straight B18C1 swap, but it will be more reliable. I mean no offense to the OP of this thread, but I can't suggest doing a turbo build to someone like him, with his current knowledge. If you can't get vtec to work & can't do a water pump/T-belt/head gasket job themselves, you have no business turbocharging a car. People who just throw turbo kits on their cars (regardless of how "built" the engine is), usually end up paying tons of money for other people to fix their mistakes, and still end up eventually blowing up the engine.

boondocks1805

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .Enigma. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The B18C1 is going to cost more than a D. He could end up with the same problem.

I'd pull the motor and drop in the stocker, if you still have it. Sell the B in parts and make your money back if you can. With that money you can get a D cheep and rebuild it or build it for boost. A rebuilt stock D should handle 200 whp well.

If you go with a built boosted D expect about 300 whp. A built D doesn't sound like the best option due to the limited airflow of the head.

You could rebuild a D.. boost it.. play with it.. sell it.. get a LS and boost it.. play with it.. sell it.. then get a K.



If I could afford it.. I'd go with a K24 block and K20 head with boost all over the place!

Peace,
E</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ok I just finished posting on a thread about this a week or so ago. A stock D-series can handle up to 320whp on stock internals(this isn't exactly safe so don't try it unless you're a risk taker).

I am doing pretty much a full build because I have never done a D-series before but all my friends say they are fun and from experience I know they are a lot cheaper to build then my K20 was.

For my setup on my K20 for the motor and full build was roughly 10k (turbo Kit,all work,tranny,ECU,Harness,Etc.) For this D that I am building right now by the time it's done minus the paint and stereo I will have only spent 4k on it and will be pushing somewhere around 350whp. Granted I am having a lot of the work done in house due to the fact I own a business with my dad.

If you have any questions comments or concerns just reply to the post or feel free to PM me.

wondersparrow

i guess it all depends on what you want to do. if i was you, I would put the stocker back in, pick up a used engine stand (like $50 if you look around) and rebuild the B. parts are not that expensive, labour is. if you want to learn about engines, here is your chance. you have two engines, and your car isnt out of service. h-t is a good resource, and you must have a friend or two that knows a little as well. rings are a fairly easy job if the cylinders are ok, but it would cost a bundle for a shop to do them for you. take the time to do it right, fire it up on the stand even (make sure to put some sort of exhaust on). I'm lucky because between my friends and family I have access to all the tools I need. if only i had the time....

.Enigma.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CivicSpoon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Yeah, it will cost more to do a straight B18C1 swap, but it will be more reliable. I mean no offense to the OP of this thread, but I can't suggest doing a turbo build to someone like him, with his current knowledge. If you can't get vtec to work & can't do a water pump/T-belt/head gasket job themselves, you have no business turbocharging a car. People who just throw turbo kits on their cars (regardless of how "built" the engine is), usually end up paying tons of money for other people to fix their mistakes, and still end up eventually blowing up the engine.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree with you 100%

I figured he would get someone to do the work for him.. so the Turbo D would produce more power and be cheaper than working in a B swap.. if he plans on mod'ing the B swap.

Either way, he could always get a D15B and rebuild it with a buddy to learn him something!



Peace,
E

.Enigma.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boondocks1805 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Ok I just finished posting on a thread about this a week or so ago. A stock D-series can handle up to 320whp on stock internals(this isn't exactly safe so don't try it unless you're a risk taker).

I am doing pretty much a full build because I have never done a D-series before but all my friends say they are fun and from experience I know they are a lot cheaper to build then my K20 was.

For my setup on my K20 for the motor and full build was roughly 10k (turbo Kit,all work,tranny,ECU,Harness,Etc.) For this D that I am building right now by the time it's done minus the paint and stereo I will have only spent 4k on it and will be pushing somewhere around 350whp. Granted I am having a lot of the work done in house due to the fact I own a business with my dad.

If you have any questions comments or concerns just reply to the post or feel free to PM me. </TD></TR></TABLE>

My dream swap is a K20/4 in a EG hatch. Those are just sick motors! The transmissions are capable of some insane speed and acceleration.. if you have the money, it is really the only way to go.

Peace,
E

JdelMsolG

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .Enigma. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

My dream swap is a K20/4 in a EG hatch. Those are just sick motors! The transmissions are capable of some insane speed and acceleration.. if you have the money, it is really the only way to go.

Peace,
E</TD></TR></TABLE>


haha we got some big balllers in the hizzzzouse. we all wish we could afford a k series, but the truth is, only a fraction of us can afford/ have the mechanical skills to achieve such a dream. For anyone who says that a noob cant handle a boosted d series, they are half right half wrong, look into the forced induction forums, learn the basics and you'll discover that the biggest part of a boosted d is the tune. I wouldnt recommend you doing anything wild like trying to throw together a home made kit or anything like that, but you could easily achieve about 250 to the wheels without spending more then a couple hundred bucks. Just sell the poorman parts save that money and buy a complete turbo kit, (elderbrock, greddy). Those kits are pretty much everything you need to get it going other then a good mechanic. Just remember dont bullshit with a turbo set up if you have no clue about it, leave it to a professional or you'll end up with parts and oil everywhere.


by the way, pm me with some prices when you wanna do that part out

goodluck bro

bmxrider945

i say go for it and finish what you started. In the end it will be all worth it

boondocks1805

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JdelMsolG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


haha we got some big balllers in the hizzzzouse. we all wish we could afford a k series, but the truth is, only a fraction of us can afford/ have the mechanical skills to achieve such a dream. For anyone who says that a noob cant handle a boosted d series, they are half right half wrong, look into the forced induction forums, learn the basics and you'll discover that the biggest part of a boosted d is the tune. I wouldnt recommend you doing anything wild like trying to throw together a home made kit or anything like that, but you could easily achieve about 250 to the wheels without spending more then a couple hundred bucks. Just sell the poorman parts save that money and buy a complete turbo kit, (elderbrock, greddy). Those kits are pretty much everything you need to get it going other then a good mechanic. Just remember dont bullshit with a turbo set up if you have no clue about it, leave it to a professional or you'll end up with parts and oil everywhere.


by the way, pm me with some prices when you wanna do that part out

goodluck bro</TD></TR></TABLE>


I completely agree with the K20 being more expensive and taking a lot more work.
I haven't done too many B-series and I am currently working on my first D-series.
Out of everything I have done(B16,B18C1,F22B2,H22/23 hybrid) the K20 was the hardest and most expensive to work with, my only problem with the D15B that I have now is the finding parts issue.If anyone needs help on that I can point you in the right direction. As far as with turbo kits to order, whatever you do don't order the edlebrock kit........Overpriced..... Check out this link http://www.ssautochrome.com/ . Alot of people hate this company but IMO they're well worth it for the price, especially since you're a beginner. Well good luck, any questions hit me up.

ke98248

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boondocks1805 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Ok I just finished posting on a thread about this a week or so ago. A stock D-series can handle up to 320whp on stock internals(this isn't exactly safe so don't try it unless you're a risk taker).
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Where the hell did you get your information from? A STOCK D-series, 1.6 liter VTEC will hold 220-240WHP at the most without snapping rods, etc... It's highly recommended to swap the stock bolts for ARP head studs and a new oem headgasket if you're going to push that much.

Those 1.5 liter VTEC/non-vtec hold even less (EXCEPT the JDM D15B)-- the transmissions aren't as strong as the d16z6/y8 transmissions that have steel shift forks in them, etc... The spindly rods will snap like a twig if you tried to reach anywhere near 320whp..

boondocks1805

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ke98248 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Where the hell did you get your information from? A STOCK D-series, 1.6 liter VTEC will hold 220-240WHP at the most without snapping rods, etc... It's highly recommended to swap the stock bolts for ARP head studs and a new oem headgasket if you're going to push that much.

Those 1.5 liter VTEC/non-vtec hold even less (EXCEPT the JDM D15B)-- the transmissions aren't as strong as the d16z6/y8 transmissions that have steel shift forks in them, etc... The spindly rods will snap like a twig if you tried to reach anywhere near 320whp..</TD></TR></TABLE>


Ok here is the link that iwas talking about earlier on in my post.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2311787
Contrary to you belief I did not pull these numbers out of thin air. I say what I know and I have personally seen a D16 put out 320whp with stock internals. Like I stated earlier this is not considered safe but the guy that is doing this has been running his car on the setup he has for a little over 8 months now. He does have mutiple tunes so he is not running 320whp constantly.

Mehofaca1

this is kind of what im in right now

Mazdaholic

iTrader: (1)

I had a turbocharged d16 in my old eg, and that thing was a lot of fun to drive, and with a good tune i had no issues as far as reliability. I can't say the same about my current b16 though, it lacks in a few departments, but i'm sure it would be different if i were to turbocharge it.

as far a suggestion for the OP, i would just spend some time and do as much research as possible, then pull the motor and rebuild the motor yourself. I'm sure you can find a couple of knowledgeable friends to help you out with the work and tools as well. It sounds like the engine has a lot of good parts already, so it probably just needs to be freshened up. Give some of the key parts to a machine shop and have them make sure they are good. In the end it will still be cheaper than another swap, and you can actually enjoy the engine that you paid a lot of money for.

but that's just my $.02

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

This thread is nearly 3 years old.