...Kind of dissapointed
10-14-2007, 12:11 AM
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...Kind of dissapointed
so, i just bought a 95 civic hatch with a complete 98 itr swap in it.
tried searching for some builds for the c5 motor and all i see was the same thing written over nad over about the itr motor. "overprice" ,"not enough bang for the buck", "rather go with the c1 or b1 rather the the c5"....etc
anyways, im sure they are all right, considering its not a good motor for turbo or whatever. but my car is going to be a daily driver, and occasionally take it to the night races every now and then.
what can i do to my c5 to beef it up a bit, because whenever i go to try and buy something for my car, it turns out to be pointless. for example, i was going to get a skunk2 IM but was told that it was basically the same as the stock itr one since it was engineered after it.
so, any help would be greatly appreciated.
so far, my car is a bone stock 95 civic si hatch with a complete itr swap in it except for stock gsr exhaust manifold and stock si exhaust.
tried searching for some builds for the c5 motor and all i see was the same thing written over nad over about the itr motor. "overprice" ,"not enough bang for the buck", "rather go with the c1 or b1 rather the the c5"....etc
anyways, im sure they are all right, considering its not a good motor for turbo or whatever. but my car is going to be a daily driver, and occasionally take it to the night races every now and then.
what can i do to my c5 to beef it up a bit, because whenever i go to try and buy something for my car, it turns out to be pointless. for example, i was going to get a skunk2 IM but was told that it was basically the same as the stock itr one since it was engineered after it.
so, any help would be greatly appreciated.
so far, my car is a bone stock 95 civic si hatch with a complete itr swap in it except for stock gsr exhaust manifold and stock si exhaust.
10-14-2007, 02:05 AM
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Re: ...Kind of dissapointed (mizzoEG)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mizzoEG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why is'nt the b18c5 good for boost? just curious. 
</TD></TR></TABLE>
c/r
</TD></TR></TABLE>c/r
10-14-2007, 03:06 AM
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Re: ...Kind of dissapointed (suicide_shift)
a good place to start would be some headwork ie PNP, cams, valves, etc. next would probably be a tri y header ie rage, hytech, smsp, etc. from there make sure you get a good tune. with said work you should be able to hit over 200hp which would make it a pretty quick car..
10-14-2007, 03:19 AM
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Re: ...Kind of dissapointed (slowpokecivic)
I must be crazy coz I have a JDM '98 Spec ITR motor 11.1:1 CR in my car and I stuck a JRSC with 7psi. To prevent knock, it has an LHT intercooler.
That thing is fun!
Anyway, with your setup, if you want to stay NA, get the JDM 4-1 header w/ 2.5" collector. Also, get a CAI system. Just as an example, the Mugen CAI intake can give 10whp on a dyno.
Modified by 2BFI at 7:52 AM 10/14/2007
That thing is fun!
Anyway, with your setup, if you want to stay NA, get the JDM 4-1 header w/ 2.5" collector. Also, get a CAI system. Just as an example, the Mugen CAI intake can give 10whp on a dyno.
Modified by 2BFI at 7:52 AM 10/14/2007
10-14-2007, 03:31 AM
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Re: ...Kind of dissapointed (2BFI)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2BFI »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I must be crazy coz I have a JDM '98 Spec ITR motor 11.1:1 CR in my car and I stuck a JRSC with 7psi. To prevent knock, it has an LHT intercooler.
That thing is fun!
Anyway, with your setup, if you want to stay NA, get the JDM 4-1 header w/ 2.5" collector. Also, get a CAI system. Just as an example, the Mugen CAI intake gave 10whp on a dyno.</TD></TR></TABLE>
7 psi on a jrsc is not much.........................................dumba ss.............intercoolers alone dont prevent knock. just from that comment i can tell you dont know much about forved induction.
That thing is fun!
Anyway, with your setup, if you want to stay NA, get the JDM 4-1 header w/ 2.5" collector. Also, get a CAI system. Just as an example, the Mugen CAI intake gave 10whp on a dyno.</TD></TR></TABLE>
7 psi on a jrsc is not much.........................................dumba ss.............intercoolers alone dont prevent knock. just from that comment i can tell you dont know much about forved induction.
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10-14-2007, 06:41 AM
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Re: ...Kind of dissapointed (suicide_shift)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by suicide_shift »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
7 psi on a jrsc is not much.........................................dumba ss.............intercoolers alone dont prevent knock. just from that comment i can tell you dont know much about forved induction. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Wow I'm going to go ahead and call you an idiot. You called the guy a dumbass for no reason. 7psi on a larger supercharger and a good tune will net around 250-300 whp on that setup wouldn't you say? He threw in the intercooler comment because a lot of people that run superchargers don't use intercoolers. And, in fact, they do help quite a bit with knock. So... I think its safe to say you don't know much about "forved" induction, whatever the expletive that is.
7 psi on a jrsc is not much.........................................dumba ss.............intercoolers alone dont prevent knock. just from that comment i can tell you dont know much about forved induction. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Wow I'm going to go ahead and call you an idiot. You called the guy a dumbass for no reason. 7psi on a larger supercharger and a good tune will net around 250-300 whp on that setup wouldn't you say? He threw in the intercooler comment because a lot of people that run superchargers don't use intercoolers. And, in fact, they do help quite a bit with knock. So... I think its safe to say you don't know much about "forved" induction, whatever the expletive that is.
10-14-2007, 06:47 AM
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Re: ...Kind of dissapointed (suicide_shift)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by suicide_shift »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
7 psi on a jrsc is not much.........................................dumba ss.............intercoolers alone dont prevent knock. just from that comment i can tell you dont know much about forved induction. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Maybe you assume too much. You have learn to state your ideas diplomatically instead of calling people names. Just from that comment I can tell you don't know much about human relationship.
I've been running a FI since 1999. I've done B16s & B18s, w/ JRSCs, Turbos, etc. Of course a lot of things affect detonation and IAT is one of them. You don't expect me to enumerate them all do you?
And if you really know your stuff, roots type blowers are at best 60% efficient. The boost level isn't the only gauge of needing an intercooler or not. IATs are more important. Running the engine hard raises IATs to 120C w/o an intercooler. The intercooler lowers it to 70C. Now tell me 50C on a high CR motor is not much. Do I have to convert that to farenheit for you?
You better start learning to respect other people coz your know it all attitude ain't gonna win you friends nor get you anywhere in life.
7 psi on a jrsc is not much.........................................dumba ss.............intercoolers alone dont prevent knock. just from that comment i can tell you dont know much about forved induction. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Maybe you assume too much. You have learn to state your ideas diplomatically instead of calling people names. Just from that comment I can tell you don't know much about human relationship.
I've been running a FI since 1999. I've done B16s & B18s, w/ JRSCs, Turbos, etc. Of course a lot of things affect detonation and IAT is one of them. You don't expect me to enumerate them all do you?
And if you really know your stuff, roots type blowers are at best 60% efficient. The boost level isn't the only gauge of needing an intercooler or not. IATs are more important. Running the engine hard raises IATs to 120C w/o an intercooler. The intercooler lowers it to 70C. Now tell me 50C on a high CR motor is not much. Do I have to convert that to farenheit for you?
You better start learning to respect other people coz your know it all attitude ain't gonna win you friends nor get you anywhere in life.
10-14-2007, 08:59 AM
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Re: ...Kind of dissapointed (96 EX)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by suicide_shift »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
7 psi on a jrsc is not much.........................................dumba ss.............intercoolers alone dont prevent knock. just from that comment i can tell you dont know much about forved induction. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Jsut out of curiosity, what's your budget?? That can make a big difference in what would be good for you to do w/ your car.
7 psi on a jrsc is not much.........................................dumba ss.............intercoolers alone dont prevent knock. just from that comment i can tell you dont know much about forved induction. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Jsut out of curiosity, what's your budget?? That can make a big difference in what would be good for you to do w/ your car.
10-14-2007, 09:12 AM
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maybe nitrous is whats best for you, cheap off the bat, doesnt effect gas mileage. A 75shot correctly distributed with a good header, a pair of cams like skunk pro 1's or maybe bc3's would be a nice combo.
10-14-2007, 05:20 PM
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Re: ...Kind of dissapointed (2BFI)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2BFI »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Maybe you assume too much. You have learn to state your ideas diplomatically instead of calling people names. Just from that comment I can tell you don't know much about human relationship.
I've been running a FI since 1999. I've done B16s & B18s, w/ JRSCs, Turbos, etc. Of course a lot of things affect detonation and IAT is one of them. You don't expect me to enumerate them all do you?
And if you really know your stuff, roots type blowers are at best 60% efficient. The boost level isn't the only gauge of needing an intercooler or not. IATs are more important. Running the engine hard raises IATs to 120C w/o an intercooler. The intercooler lowers it to 70C. Now tell me 50C on a high CR motor is not much. Do I have to convert that to farenheit for you?
You better start learning to respect other people coz your know it all attitude ain't gonna win you friends nor get you anywhere in life.</TD></TR></TABLE>
still saying for high boost applications a bone stock ITR motor doesnt have an ideal c/r i know everybody ignored my c/r comment. but your *** replied to it. and you're trying to play it off. oh great god of all bolt on appications built specifically for the motor. dude its like saying ya instead of firing up a mig i can just use jb weld see it says on the box its GREAT for this application!
i may be a "kid" in your eyes but atleast im not an ******* like you.
I've been running a FI since 1999. I've done B16s & B18s, w/ JRSCs, Turbos, etc. Of course a lot of things affect detonation and IAT is one of them. You don't expect me to enumerate them all do you?
And if you really know your stuff, roots type blowers are at best 60% efficient. The boost level isn't the only gauge of needing an intercooler or not. IATs are more important. Running the engine hard raises IATs to 120C w/o an intercooler. The intercooler lowers it to 70C. Now tell me 50C on a high CR motor is not much. Do I have to convert that to farenheit for you?
You better start learning to respect other people coz your know it all attitude ain't gonna win you friends nor get you anywhere in life.</TD></TR></TABLE>
still saying for high boost applications a bone stock ITR motor doesnt have an ideal c/r i know everybody ignored my c/r comment. but your *** replied to it. and you're trying to play it off. oh great god of all bolt on appications built specifically for the motor. dude its like saying ya instead of firing up a mig i can just use jb weld see it says on the box its GREAT for this application!
i may be a "kid" in your eyes but atleast im not an ******* like you.
10-14-2007, 06:12 PM
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Re: ...Kind of dissapointed (spintboy)
meh. you could boost a C5. But im not a boost guy.
OP: There's no reason why that car shouldn't run deep into the 13s. That's pretty quick for a daily driver that still gets 30+ mpg, and maintains incredible reliability and durability. I think with cams and bolt ons (and tuning, duh), the car would definitely go high 12s NA and still be very driveable.
OP: There's no reason why that car shouldn't run deep into the 13s. That's pretty quick for a daily driver that still gets 30+ mpg, and maintains incredible reliability and durability. I think with cams and bolt ons (and tuning, duh), the car would definitely go high 12s NA and still be very driveable.
10-14-2007, 07:02 PM
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Re: ...Kind of dissapointed (2BFI)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2BFI »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Anyway, with your setup, if you want to stay NA, get the JDM 4-1 header w/ 2.5" collector. Also, get a CAI system. Just as an example, the Mugen CAI intake can give 10whp on a dyno.
Modified by 2BFI at 7:52 AM 10/14/2007</TD></TR></TABLE>
I seriously doubt a Mugen intake alone will yield anywhere close to a 10whp gain.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by suicide_shift »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i may be a "kid" in your eyes but atleast im not an ******* like you. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Youre the one calling someone else a dumbass and claiming you know wtf youre talking about when you just got proved wrong. I dont think youre in the right position to be claiming that hes an ******* when youre the ******* to begin with. He didnt even give you an insult just rather a lecture and a statement that proves that youre wrong.
Give credit where it is due. We all know that lots of boost and high c/r dont go well together but if on a mild turbo or s/c setup than a higher c/r is actually more ideal. Not extremely high but not lower than stock for sure.
Modified by 2BFI at 7:52 AM 10/14/2007</TD></TR></TABLE>
I seriously doubt a Mugen intake alone will yield anywhere close to a 10whp gain.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by suicide_shift »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i may be a "kid" in your eyes but atleast im not an ******* like you. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Youre the one calling someone else a dumbass and claiming you know wtf youre talking about when you just got proved wrong. I dont think youre in the right position to be claiming that hes an ******* when youre the ******* to begin with. He didnt even give you an insult just rather a lecture and a statement that proves that youre wrong.
Give credit where it is due. We all know that lots of boost and high c/r dont go well together but if on a mild turbo or s/c setup than a higher c/r is actually more ideal. Not extremely high but not lower than stock for sure.
10-14-2007, 07:08 PM
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Re: ...Kind of dissapointed (iVteC_PoWeR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by iVteC_PoWeR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I seriously doubt a Mugen intake alone will yield anywhere close to a 10whp gain.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well, a good CAI setup should net somewhere around that number all by its lonesome. The dyno tune in..some...magazine..I dont remember....was like 7.5hp out of an AEM CAI all by it self on a B18C5. The V2 is supposed to make more power. I dont have any info or specs on the mugen intake for B18s, but for F20Cs, they make close to 10whp.
I seriously doubt a Mugen intake alone will yield anywhere close to a 10whp gain.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well, a good CAI setup should net somewhere around that number all by its lonesome. The dyno tune in..some...magazine..I dont remember....was like 7.5hp out of an AEM CAI all by it self on a B18C5. The V2 is supposed to make more power. I dont have any info or specs on the mugen intake for B18s, but for F20Cs, they make close to 10whp.
10-14-2007, 07:12 PM
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For some reason I see full bolt-ons as in i/h/e barely netting 10whp. I know the Mugen intake is supposedly of great quality, but 10whp out of just a cold air intake?
10-14-2007, 07:15 PM
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Re: (iVteC_PoWeR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by iVteC_PoWeR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For some reason I see full bolt-ons as in i/h/e barely netting 10whp. I know the Mugen intake is supposedly of great quality, but 10whp out of just a cold air intake? </TD></TR></TABLE>
happens all the time. You gotta figure, though, that all bolt ons will add power at different RPMs.
Say your intake makes 10whp at 7k.
Then you add an exhaust. It makes a peak of 5whp at 6k, but at 7k, that peak tapers off to around 2 whp.
Then you add a header. Peak whp of like 3whp at 6500, but only 1hp at 7k.
So, at peak you only gained 13hp....even though each mod claimed to have a 10hp, 5hp, and 3hp gain, respectively. So you gain 13 peak hp out of 18 more available hp.
That's an over simplified explanation, but you get the point. You have to factor when your motor's peak power is, and where all the peaks meet to make the highest number at a certain RPM. Your powerband is better spread out, but your peak #s dont go up as much as you'd expect just reading individual numbers.
This is why a well engineered and tuned setup with bolt ons might make only a few more peak #s as a badly done setup, but the well done setup will be faster.
happens all the time. You gotta figure, though, that all bolt ons will add power at different RPMs.
Say your intake makes 10whp at 7k.
Then you add an exhaust. It makes a peak of 5whp at 6k, but at 7k, that peak tapers off to around 2 whp.
Then you add a header. Peak whp of like 3whp at 6500, but only 1hp at 7k.
So, at peak you only gained 13hp....even though each mod claimed to have a 10hp, 5hp, and 3hp gain, respectively. So you gain 13 peak hp out of 18 more available hp.
That's an over simplified explanation, but you get the point. You have to factor when your motor's peak power is, and where all the peaks meet to make the highest number at a certain RPM. Your powerband is better spread out, but your peak #s dont go up as much as you'd expect just reading individual numbers.
This is why a well engineered and tuned setup with bolt ons might make only a few more peak #s as a badly done setup, but the well done setup will be faster.
10-14-2007, 07:17 PM
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Re: ...Kind of dissapointed (B serious)
Man I hate to say it but your butt dyno needs to be adjusted. You are not gonna make that power of a cai alone. But I heard if you slap a skunk2 sticker on it will net you 30+ hp. 
10-14-2007, 07:19 PM
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Re: ...Kind of dissapointed (b16a3delsol)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b16a3delsol »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Man I hate to say it but your butt dyno needs to be adjusted. You are not gonna make that power of a cai alone. But I heard if you slap a skunk2 sticker on it will net you 30+ hp. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm talking about actual dyno numbers. It's not uncommon to see 5-10whp out of an intake on a B series. Manufacturer dyno charts may lie, but 3rd party dyno charts (if set up correctly) have no motive to promote a product, so they're usually pretty reliable.
</TD></TR></TABLE>I'm talking about actual dyno numbers. It's not uncommon to see 5-10whp out of an intake on a B series. Manufacturer dyno charts may lie, but 3rd party dyno charts (if set up correctly) have no motive to promote a product, so they're usually pretty reliable.
10-14-2007, 07:31 PM
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Re: ...Kind of dissapointed (B serious)
id say a c5 is pretty quik as it is especially for a daily driver. my friend had a c5 in his 4 dr eg . the look on some peoples faces when they lost was priceless!
10-14-2007, 08:03 PM
#23
Re: ...Kind of dissapointed (spintboy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by iVteC_PoWeR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For some reason I see full bolt-ons as in i/h/e barely netting 10whp. I know the Mugen intake is supposedly of great quality, but 10whp out of just a cold air intake? </TD></TR></TABLE>
you'd be surprised what a good intake and good header and tuning can do for a b18c5. by good header i dont mean crappy dc headers. throw in decently sized cams and you're knocking on 200whp.
you'd be surprised what a good intake and good header and tuning can do for a b18c5. by good header i dont mean crappy dc headers. throw in decently sized cams and you're knocking on 200whp.
10-14-2007, 08:30 PM
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Re: (iVteC_PoWeR)
I don't have the dyno graph of my friend, but on his NA JDM ITR motor, the Mugen CAI made +10WHP on a dynapack.
We then tried it on my old motor which was a B16A w/ an 8 psi JRSC. It gained 12 whp on a dynojet. The Mugen CAI run was the last run. So if ever heat soak was present, it would be there to discredit the Mugen CAI.
Red = stock airbox w/ K&N Drop in, stock resonator box replaced w/ DIY CAI 3" hose.
Blue = Mugen CAI
In both cases, the runs were 5 minutes apart, with only the intake change. I was absolutely surprised myself.
Modified by 2BFI at 3:44 AM 10/15/2007
Modified by 2BFI at 5:12 PM 10/15/2007
We then tried it on my old motor which was a B16A w/ an 8 psi JRSC. It gained 12 whp on a dynojet. The Mugen CAI run was the last run. So if ever heat soak was present, it would be there to discredit the Mugen CAI.
Red = stock airbox w/ K&N Drop in, stock resonator box replaced w/ DIY CAI 3" hose.
Blue = Mugen CAI
In both cases, the runs were 5 minutes apart, with only the intake change. I was absolutely surprised myself.
Modified by 2BFI at 3:44 AM 10/15/2007
Modified by 2BFI at 5:12 PM 10/15/2007
