OversteerMotorSports

Hey guys, im in some serious need of help. Im completely stumped. Here is the setup.

94 Civic DX
D15b7 AUTOMATIC,
Exhaust,

And today I installed my JG cam into my car, now it wont start. Its getting gas, spark. Timing is dead nut. Got a good engine ground. NOT THROWING ANY CODES.....

What else could it be? Im completely stumped. All the valves are adjusted accordingly to the cam specs. ANyone?

Thanks in advance,

Austin

Former User

Triple check that the cam and crank are perfectly synchronized at TDC.

Have you checked the compression in the cylinders?

nub

when you "triple check" your cam timming you may want to pull the dist. cap to verify you have the no.1 plug wire connected to the terminal on the cap that the rotor is pointing to and recheck your firing order, 1342

OversteerMotorSports

Im not noob status. Its all correct. Timing, firing order, valve lash, proper torque specs and torque patterns. Everything. And no codes. Im not *180 out. Its all okay. This is why im stumped.

OversteerMotorSports

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RonJ@HT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Triple check that the cam and crank are perfectly synchronized at TDC.

Have you checked the compression in the cylinders?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Triple quadruple. etc. its correct.

OversteerMotorSports

So i went out there. Let the car cycle a few times making sure i hear the fuel pump. I turn it over and it sputters. I kept trying and it started. Now it wont idle correctly. It dies. I know, all signs of incorrect timing. But I tried to correct it with the dizzy and it runs best where its at. It just wont idle. Ill do a new search now, but if someone has a quick answer for me, awesome.

Thanks in advance.

nub

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by OversteerMotorSports &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Im not noob status. </TD></TR></TABLE> i understand but sometime when problems arise frustration can cause you to overlook the obvious. as asked by Ronj have you checked compression? have you double checked valve lash? what are you actually setting lash to ("cam specs")?

builthatch

i think the actual cam timing is way out, despite what the sprocket and crank relationship is. what's the history of that particular cam you have? did you order it based on your core/engine, or did you buy it used?

compare the slots on the stock cam vs. this one, in relation to the lobes. cam to cam, everything should be the same, same angles, directions, etc, only the base circle will be smaller.

IMO, you need to do a compression test to see if/how compression builds...

OversteerMotorSports

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nub &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> i understand but sometime when problems arise frustration can cause you to overlook the obvious. as asked by Ronj have you checked compression? have you double checked valve lash? what are you actually setting lash to ("cam specs")?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Frusterating. Yes. Im calming down now that its running. I just need to get it to run better. Thank you for coping. hah.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by builthatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i think the actual cam timing is way out, despite what the sprocket and crank relationship is. what's the history of that particular cam you have? did you order it based on your core/engine, or did you buy it used?

compare the slots on the stock cam vs. this one, in relation to the lobes. everything should be the same, same angles, directions, etc, only the base circle will be smaller.

IMO, you need to do a compression test to see if/how compression builds...

</TD></TR></TABLE>

The only history of the cam that I have came up with is this. Its a JG-301x (reground? i remember someone saying something like that) It was in a d16z6, and a dual point ef. And I was told it would work in my d15b7. I am clueless when your talking about these "slots" and etc.. Compression check is next. Ill be back in just a few.

GSaura

This applies to DOHC engines so it may be the same for SOHC. I'm not sure. It's an idea at least if nothing else has changed on the setup.

On aggressive cams, you need to degree them or the car won't run properly. It may start for a sec, sound like ****, and die if the cam gears aren't set at the right position.

You can check for "quick specs" at JG's website to see where you should position your cam gear. Skunk2 has quick specs on their website. You may have to call JG if you can't find any.

builthatch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by OversteerMotorSports &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I am clueless when your talking about these "slots" and etc.. Compression check is next. Ill be back in just a few.</TD></TR></TABLE>

all sohc jg cams are regrinds; i don't think he did much hardwelding (which is adding material to a stock cam and then reshaping), and i'm sure he doesn't do fresh billet work like crower. they just made the base circle smaller to effectively make the lobes seem bigger; you get some more lift, and some more duration. the lobe seperation is never really changed all that much so regrinds have limited application.

anyway, what i mean with the slots is...the keyway for the sprocket...and the slot for the distributor. if you stand that regrind on one end, and put the stock cam on the same end, line up the slots to they are parallel to each other. now, look down the cam at the profile on each cam. the lobes should be in the exact same position, pointing in the same direction, cam to cam, with the slots parallel. then, flip the cams over and stand them on the other end(s), and compare. if the lobes are different between the two cams, pointing in different directions or a different plane, then that cam has some sort of keyway/degree issue.

OversteerMotorSports

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by builthatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

all sohc jg cams are regrinds; i don't think he did much hardwelding (which is adding material to a stock cam and then reshaping), and i'm sure he doesn't do fresh billet work like crower. they just made the base circle smaller to effectively make the lobes seem bigger; you get some more lift, and some more duration. the lobe seperation is never really changed all that much so regrinds have limited application.

anyway, what i mean with the slots is...the keyway for the sprocket...and the slot for the distributor. if you stand that regrind on one end, and put the stock cam on the same end, line up the slots to they are parallel to each other. now, look down the cam at the profile on each cam. the lobes should be in the exact same position, pointing in the same direction, cam to cam, with the slots parallel. then, flip the cams over and stand them on the other end(s), and compare. if the lobes are different between the two cams, pointing in different directions or a different plane, then that cam has some sort of keyway/degree issue.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Somewhat confusing. But pretty much it could be an all around differnt cam? And not for my applacation?

GSaura

It sounds like he's saying that if the lobes are in the same places as the original cam, but the keyway is in a different place, the cam has to be degreed to make the engine run right.

OversteerMotorSports

So with a little bit of research I found that that cam is for a d16a6. But I assure you that it worked in a d16z6 too. And the d16z6 jg cam has a completely different part number. The lift for my JG-301x is 410in/402ex and the lift duration is 274in/260ex.

The cam that JG has for the d15b7 has a lift of 985/310 and duration of 250/240.

I dont understand the numbers. But I do know that they are different. But will this much of a difference in lift and durations make a substantial effect on my idle problem?

builthatch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by OversteerMotorSports &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Somewhat confusing. But pretty much it could be an all around differnt cam? And not for my applacation?</TD></TR></TABLE>

JG lists 230165 or 185 for the b7, but ideally the 301x should work.

the process i've listed for a general comparison of the cam vs. the stocker should be able to tell you if the cam is indeed compatible. it's not that complicated, but it does require both cams to be out of the car. just stand them up side by side on the same end. one in your right hand, and one in your left hand. make sure the slot on the end facing your face is lined up in the same direction for each cam, and look down to see if the lobes are sticking out in the same direction on each cam.

but, as mentioned, since the cam is in the car, do the compression test to see if the compression stroke is somewhat timed with the valves closing. you will be able to see if it is by the way the tester builds compression, if at all.

builthatch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by OversteerMotorSports &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So with a little bit of research I found that that cam is for a d16a6. But I assure you that it worked in a d16z6 too.</TD></TR></TABLE>

sir, that is impossible. a d16z6 is a vtec engine with vtec lobes. b7/b2/a6/y7 are non-vtec engines and have cams w/o vtec lobes. you did mention this before, as i look back on it, but it is so ridiculous that i overlooked it and my mind turned the z6 into an a6.

OversteerMotorSports

I thought the same thing. Isnt there a whole other section of lobes for vtec cams? But its just what was related to me. Thank you all. My car runs just like it should, just doesnt idle. Ill figure it out later and ill update what was wrong.

Austin

MonkeyMagic

sounds like your out of time.. if the cam was meant for an a6 and you've got it in a b7 its probably gonna be off.. just like a mini me swap.

i'd check the timing. and i don't mean by marks... the only mark you can really use is the crank. your gonna have to dial in the cam by hand the real way.. and you'll probably need a cam gear to pull out ~1/2 a tooth to get the cam to be at true tdc when the crank is.

now this may not be your problem but then again i never use those crappy timing marks to set a motor unless its 100% stock. as well as i've never put an unknown cam in a random motor.

other thing i was thinking is since is it could just be too much cam for the little, low-compression motor. and at idle it has to much lobe to run. now again i have no idea how aggresive this cam is so this is just what i'd start with.

OversteerMotorSports

I was also thinking that it was maybe just too aggressive for this motor. What could I do to make this cam more "fesible"(?) for my motor? Other upgrades or tuning/timing techniques I could try?

What is the thought on LS injectors?

MonkeyMagic

larger injectors wouldn't be necessary. 1.5L motor just isn't that thirsty

not much you can do if its too much cam.. since it is a tiny motor and has really low compression. basically the chances are if it wont run with this motor as it sits, it probably is looking for atleast 12:1 compression and a head that can flow the air the cam is capable of delivering. other wise the engine is just overwhelmed. lol like taking a beer bong everytime you want a sip of drink with dinner.. eventually your gonna drown lol

but id still check the timing on it first, don't give up. i'm assuming you don't have a programmable computer running it, if you did you could set the target idle speed waay up but chances are its still going to have worse than stock performance if its over-cammed.

good luck