AMG

I was just wondering which one you would choose or did choose to put into your EG and why? I know that the gsr boasts more torque and horse power and i know that it is overall a better engine, but it is also more expensive. im about to swap a sir II into my eg and i have just enough to do that. I dont want to save more to get a gsr and i kinda am more fond of having a 1.6 liter engine and beating bigger displacment engines, so what i am really trying to get is positive feed back from true b16a fans on how there swap went and if any problems occured along the way.....Thanks

allmtr

i have a b16a sir2 engine in my 96 hatch and i love it. i only have itr cams, exhaust, intake and a stock header and i beat gsr hatches with bolt-ons all the time. also one with an itr tranny.
im always accused of having a gsr. then i pop my hood and the look on their face if priceless.

when you first swap it you can really feel the torque increase, but after having it a few months, you can really notice the lag in the low rpms before vtec. vtec does however make up for it. once vtec hits, theres no other feeling like passing some FMer who thinks hes faster than you. with a p&p, block work and tranny work like lsd, cluch, flywheel, and a 4.9 final drive, you will mash on almost anyone on the street. you can always change the block too if your still unsatisfied.

dont ever underestimate the b16.

AMG

Thanks man for the reply..i just have a quick question? Why is it that the torque is noticible when you first put it in than it seems to lag before vtec after you have it in a while? How much was your engine and swap or did you do it yourself? Mine is going to be abot 2500 including a new timming belt, water pump, skunk 2 intake manifold, abd a few other percautionary things?
Also.....is it just me or does vtec sound louder in a b16 than a b18??

fowler!

Well, it's gonna have more torque than your stock motor, so it's gonna feel like it has kick.

But then you get used to it...

allmtr

well the duel cam obviously feels better than the single cam, so you'll notice it right away. then youll begin hitting the vtec everywhere you go and you will get used to the engines power and the extra power after 6k. youll really notice the diffence in vtec and before. so therefor it will begin to feel slower before vtec, but havent lost any power. youll say to you self, damn, why cant it feel like vtec all the time. its all good though.

i did the swap my self so it was free. if you have the time, i say do it yourself, you really learn alot.

thats not a bad price, i got mine for 2400 but i had the whole front clip with no chassy, so mine came with axels, suspention, and so on...

it does sound louder huh, i think its because it hits higher and the engine is aleady spinning faster so it sounds louder. also the stroke is smaller so it revs better in the higher rpms. thats just what i think. the gsr also has those secondaries that open earlier and vtec hits at like 4500 or around there.

man thats alota typing

xJ.SLOTHx

w'dup ian....i finally found you on H-T.com...its about time we run into eachother on here....lol

ejprimo

i got the sir2 in my coupe. i wanted it b/c it came with a y21 tranny and a better head than the gsr. i drove a gsr before and their gear ratio seems longer than the y21.

fowler!

Actually, it's a common misconception that the b16 is better than the GSR. When in fact, the gsr head flows better.

ejprimo

sorry for the mis info.

krazy

primarily because the valves sit more vertically than the b16a right fowler? only downside i can see is the intake manifold, but that can be easily remedied with a skunk2 manifold.

krazy

advanracing62

QUOTE:

Actually, it's a common misconception that the b16 is better than the GSR. When in fact, the gsr head flows better.

Really? Then why does the B18C5 have a PNP B16 head on it? Better yet what about the B16B head? hmmm.... they are all PR3 castings, so does that mean that the ITR and CTR are crappy cause they have poor flowing heads? I'm just wondering about this.

NiiS

absolutly true(even though I run B18c...)

stockegsix

ok i have a jdm sirII b16a and sirII tranny in my 92 cx, its fast ,well it was fast but you get use to it and no torque, if you get better cams, camgears and ITR manifold, you should be okay.better yet b20 block. but if i have the change to start all over again i would go GSR all the way.

92cx
jdm b16a
sirII tranny
ITR header
erick's racing ECU
AEM CAI
custom piping w/ stock 00 SI muffler

shawnhayes

It's a matter of degrees. Stock, the B18C1 head flows a little better than the B16 head. Ported and polished from the factory, though, the ITR head flows a little better than the B18C1. They all three flow pretty well, but it's a choice of small degrees.

Shawn

B18C5-EH2

One of my good friends and ex-co workers had a Second-Gen hydro B16A swap in his DX hatch.

It dynoed 152whp and 102ft/lbs. of torque with only mods being a kenji-spec P28, DC 4-2-1 header, and 5 zigen exhaust. Stock airbox was disconnected for the runs.

I used to own a 1995 B18C1 swap in my old 1992 Si hatch befire I got the B18C5 swap.

It dynoed 150whp and 122ft/lbs. of torque with i/h/e only. Now my whp was a tad on the low side, so mine isn't the best example. You cannot underestimate the power of torque. Equally-equpiied cars? The B18C1 will be faster. I don't give a damn what anyone else says, the B18C1 will be quicker at the same strip, same time, with the exact same cars other than motors.

My fiancee' has a 1992 Si hatch with a B16A2 swap and whenever anyone else would drive my car and I drive hers my B18C1 would beat the B16A EVERY time.

The B18C1 does need some more help if you want to be an all-motor terror though. The 4500rpm VTEC, secondary buterfly intake manifold, and slightly taller gearing make it a tad harder to work with.

I have two theories on how to make good power with the B18C1:

1. Do what everyone else does and buy a Skunk2 manifold and a re-chipped P28 ECU ti ITR-type specs to run it. You'll want to probably add a B16A or B18C5 tranny to it because now that your VTEC is moved up from 4500 to 5600 or so, you run the risk of dropping out of VTEC when you shift into the next gear. Add all the other crap like cams and valvetrain and you're good to go.

2. Here's what I would have done to my B18C1 had I not sold it in favor of my B18C5 swap. I would have KEPT the dual-butterfly intake manifold. I would have added bigger cams and better valvetrain and gotten a better ECU program for the P72 that still uses the secondary butterfly controls.

Why would I keep the intake manifold and secondary butterflies? Because I like the low-end and midrange power the B18C1 has. I don't care if the Type R has the different intake manifold, the world's quickest all-motor Honda uses what kind of intake manifold? A GS-R intake manifold. Granted it's probably worked over some, it's still not the fabled ITR or Skunk2 one. I'm talking about the Erick's Racing all-motor Civic if you're not sure by the way.

Anyways, with the money saved on the manifold and the absolute need for a tranny if you go Skunk2 and ECU, you could spend it on better cams or some sort of engine management even if it's just a VTEC controller.

Oh I got off-topic didn't I?

I'd go with the B18C1

shawnhayes

How about getting a Skunk2 and a Hondata to have an adjustable VTEC point? (this would probably be cheaper than Skunk2, P28, and new tranny, especially the B18C5 tranny, and the loss of high speed MPG is nasty with the B18C5 transmission)

But, of course, you know my opinion of the best intake manifold for the B18C1 - the Jackson Racing one.


Shawn


[Modified by shawnhayes, 2:13 PM 9/22/2002]

AMG

Heres a question that has bothered me for months....im about to swap the sirII into my hatch like i said, but for now i want it to be reliable and i want to go N/A, but what happens when i feel that there isnt enough power and i crave more? Do i go turbo or supercharge? Basically what im asking is if i went all motor, then wanted to add either one, which one would be the best with the compents that i had already added to make it N/A??

TH1RTE3N

you guys read too much if your going to call an itr head head ported and polished.
pocket ports behind the valve you could do yourself.
look at all the big NA guys, they all run a gsr head. hodl both heads in your hand and youll see why. direct inlets

shawnhayes

It's ported and polished. Not much, of course, but some (and done by hand at the factory). How else do you explain the 20 hp difference between the GSR and the ITR (other than slightly higher compression)?

Shawn

RedHatch

I was just talking to my friend about getting a jdm b16a2 and then she said why don't you just get a usdm spec b16 and modify it to be faster then the b16a2. And this made me wonder. What does the b16a2 have that b16s don't? new cams? ecu? better flow?

AMG

the name jdm is always going to have an advantage over its U.S. counterpart......reason being that it simply doesnt have as many restrictions as does the USDM.....thats why the JDM engine has an extra 10 more ponnies than the US spec engine....if your going to get a b16a...go for the jdm one, plus i think they are actually a little cheaper than the us one, but correct me if im wrong!

stockegsix

i think jdm motors are cheaper and have a little bit more juice, on the other hand if you get a usdm motor just get it bar certified from the ref and its one less thing to worry about.

joeseph

Would someone care to elaborate on the question of which is the better flowing b-series head. I was kind of confused by some of the responses, and have heard alot of (?mis)information about the b16 haveing a better flowing head.
Tom, what tansimsion where you running on you b18c1? When you mentioned modifications you would make if you still had it, you didn't mention anything about a transmission.

As to the original question, The gsr engine seems to be definatly a better preforming swap, but I understand the cost issue. I am going through a simmilar dilema deciding whether to go with a b18b, or a b16, as I don't have enough money to spend on a b18c1 (right now I'm leaning towards the b18b, and torque )
good luck

kappa

im with yah there on your second comment buddy!

B16 power all the way!


[Modified by autonomous R, 7:37 AM 9/23/2002]

myhatchrips

hey man. to be honest the gsr is just a better foundation to start with. cuz it would be the ultimate all motor monster if built correctly. dude my setup:
94 hatch si heavy sucker
94 JDM GSR B18C
CTR CAMS 0,0 on the dial in no cam gears
chipped p28 5700 vtec engagement
nitto 555r drag radials
ghetto 3 inch short ram intake
no front or rear seats
dc jdm 4-1 open header=


1/4 mile=13.6 at 101 mph
60 ft=2.1

save yourself the headaches and get the JDM GSR it will be well worth it.


[Modified by myhatchrips, 11:25 AM 9/23/2002]


[Modified by myhatchrips, 6:36 PM 9/23/2002]