janarki

So I bought a jdm B18C1 from HMO a couple months back. It's delivered, and the shop starts the swap. After waiting some time on various back-order mounts and what not, the shop has run into some problems. Hopefully someone here can shed some light.

They get the engine in started but say it isnt running corretly and its the ecu causing this. They send the ecu back to HMO and Steve sends out another.

They have this ecu in, but are now telling me that the motor is obd1, where HMO has stated it is a jdm OBD2 and there should be no problems. The shop are saying this because there isn't a crank shaft sensor that would be on the obd2. Steve tells me it may look like a usdm obd1 and the sensor is in the distributor, but this is why it's so important to use the supplied ecu.

Steve told me to have the shop call him, which they are in the process of. The shop is also now telling me to get around this I'll need a new oil pan and something else and they are still claiming its obd1.

Anyone know what this is all about? Do I need the oil pan etc to make this work? Should it be working if it is obd2 and they shouldn't be having crank shaft sensor problems??
Thinking about it, the shop also made a harness for obd2 to get around a couple sensors initially, you think they may have f'd that up which is why they are running into above problems?

I feel like im getting raped by someone.
Any advice is greatly appreciated.


edit: motor is going in my 96 ej8

fastrunner

JDM motors dont have a crank sensor, I installed a obd2 b16b(jdm) in an obd2 car. You can splice into the distributor for the signal for the crank sensor...The shop should know how to do this, if they dont you should take the car somewhere
else.

Otherwise if you dont have strict emssions in your state you can use an obd2 to obd1 conversion harness along with the 1 peice engine harness from a honda civc EX coupe(97 I think). This will rule out your crank sensor problem.

But your shop sounds like they are a bunch of morons. The cheapest route is the splice to the distributor, the expensive route but the best one for future mods is the harness and adapter harness change over.

Goodluck, hope you aren't paying for these guys to stick their thumb up their ***.

janarki

Thanks for the info.
You're right about the shop, but options are few and far between around here. One recently closed down and another is owned by a pair of 50 year old lesbains and their dog.
I fear pulling the car and taking it elsewhere will be even more of a waste.

Andres-eh2

To correctly put a OBD1 motor in a OBD2 car you need:

OBD2 Injectors
OBD2 Alternator
OBD2 Dizzy
OBD2 Crank Fluctuation sensor added to the crank mounted on the outside of the oilpump
OBD2a p72 ECU

i think thats it. No oil pan or any other non sense. That shop is dumb.

Like mentioned above, if you dont have strict emmisions do this:

OBD2 Injectors
OBD2 Alternator
OBD2 Dizzy
OBD2a to OBD1 conversion harness
OBD1 p72

Remember to use your stock harness and just add or rewire the the o2 and vtec and do the iacv pinouts.

janarki

Well I'm in Florida so emissions aren't a big deal as far as I know.
I have the OBD2 motor and ecu, so from what I can tell from the last post my best bet would be to splice. - seeing that I dont have an OBD1 ecu. That is if I'm reading all this correctly.

gerryturbo

the JDM engines all have the crank sensor in the distributor buddy.....ive got a JDM integra breaking and just checked it.

fastrunner

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gerryturbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the JDM engines all have the crank sensor in the distributor buddy.....ive got a JDM integra breaking and just checked it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Obd1 distributors and obd2 are the same you can re-pin both to work with either.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by janarki &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well I'm in Florida so emissions aren't a big deal as far as I know.
I have the OBD2 motor and ecu, so from what I can tell from the last post my best bet would be to splice. - seeing that I dont have an OBD1 ecu. That is if I'm reading all this correctly.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

That is correct. Now go show that shop whats up. Oh and if you lived closer, I'd do it for 200.

janarki

OK I need some more help here.

I talked to the shop and they thought the splice was the right way to go. They just need to know which wires from the distributor to take the crank sensor signal from. Which colors/codes. I believe there are 3 wires needed to hook up to the harness.

Any advice? Thanks again

janarki

bump. anyone know which wires to splice?

Slopoke

The shop doesnt have alldata or something?
Why is it your job to figure all this out.

What exactly are you paying them for?
Tell them to pull their head out of their asses, go down to the local honda or acura dealer, and ask to look at some manuals.

robert_v

yea what they said but i thought jdm motors didn't have the number after the letter
ex:
b18c
b16b
d15b
b16a

anony95ex

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Slopoke &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The shop doesnt have alldata or something?
Why is it your job to figure all this out.

What exactly are you paying them for?
Tell them to pull their head out of their asses, go down to the local honda or acura dealer, and ask to look at some manuals.</TD></TR></TABLE>

He wants the shop to do something that's not supposed to be done. He wants a custom install...he wants to install an engine into a car that's not designed to have it.

A general repair shop will not know offhand how to rewire a camshaft sensor in the distributor to send a crankshaft signal to the PCM. They won't know offhand how to convert a US-market OBDI Honda to work with a "JDM" OBDII engine. They're being paid to do a supposed bolt-in engine swap, and they're probably losing time and money on this job because of all these BS hangups. That's why he's doing the legwork.

mwieczorek43

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by anony95ex &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">He wants the shop to do something that's not supposed to be done....

They're being paid to do a supposed bolt-in engine swap, and they're probably losing time and money on this job because of all these BS hangups. That's why he's doing the legwork.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Did they tell you they could do this job or what? Are they "being paid to do a supposed bolt-in engine swap" or did they know what engine you had comming?

Here's a better question: Are they simply a Honda shop, or is this a 'tuner' shop*??
I know around here, if you own a tuner shop and aren't capable of doing simple jobs like listed above, you won't be in the Honda game for long. If they're just a basic shop and don't normally do Honda swaps, get your car out of there and back into your own garage. You shouldn't have to tell them how to swap a motor... that's why you're paying them.

*tuner meaning.. swaps, turbo installs, custom fab work etc

Slopoke

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by anony95ex &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

He wants the shop to do something that's not supposed to be done. He wants a custom install...he wants to install an engine into a car that's not designed to have it.

A general repair shop will not know offhand how to rewire a camshaft sensor in the distributor to send a crankshaft signal to the PCM. They won't know offhand how to convert a US-market OBDI Honda to work with a "JDM" OBDII engine. They're being paid to do a supposed bolt-in engine swap, and they're probably losing time and money on this job because of all these BS hangups. That's why he's doing the legwork.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well a GSR swap(any obd) will not be a complete bolt in job in an '96 civic(wiring will always be required), so there is no way they thought they were doing a simple bolt-in engine replacement.
I bet he's paying more than a just an "engine replacement" price too.

Also, your assuming its a general repair shop.

anony95ex

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mwieczorek43 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Did they tell you they could do this job or what? Are they "being paid to do a supposed bolt-in engine swap" or did they know what engine you had comming?

Here's a better question: Are they simply a Honda shop, or is this a 'tuner' shop*??
I know around here, if you own a tuner shop and aren't capable of doing simple jobs like listed above, you won't be in the Honda game for long.

*tuner meaning.. swaps, turbo installs, custom fab work etc</TD></TR></TABLE>

It sounds like he's at a general repair shop, one that specializes in fixing cars as they come from the factory and not modifying them.

I agree that a tuner shop should know what to do, and a Honda dealer would probably not know, but have access to the jdm manuals and figure something out. I think the repair shop mistakenly thought they were getting into a straight-up engine swap (as they would in replacing a blown engine in any other car), and didn't realize that the engine was from a foreign market with different wiring and such.

Slopoke

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by anony95ex &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It sounds like he's at a general repair shop, one that specializes in fixing cars as they come from the factory and not modifying them.

I agree that a tuner shop should know what to do, and a Honda dealer would probably not know, but have access to the jdm manuals and figure something out. I think the repair shop mistakenly thought they were getting into a straight-up engine swap (as they would in replacing a blown engine in any other car), and didn't realize that the engine was from a foreign market with different wiring and such.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So your trying to argue with me based upon all of these assumptions your making? lol

janarki

As I said before the options here are weak, so yes it is a general repair shop. Yes, they are in over their heads and are getting the only real help and knowledge from a relative who works in a tuner shop in Atlanta. Speaking of, maybe I'll give him a call.

I'm doing the extra legwork to just expedite the whole process. I don't want to pull the car now and take it elsewhere b/c it'll cost me even more I'm sure.

mwieczorek43

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by janarki &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As I said before the options here are weak, so yes it is a general repair shop....
...I don't want to pull the car now and take it elsewhere b/c it'll cost me even more I'm sure.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's what I'm saying though (I went through this same type of thing on my first swap):

If they don't know any more than you do about how to fix it....
And your doing all the research to get it fixed...
Why are you paying them? Don't take it else where, take it home, fix it yourself!

i know it sounds intimidating, but we'll hold your hand if you get stuck.
This is what I did after getting dicked-around for over a month (and $800) on my first Honda. Now, i do everything myself (i use the term 'everything' loosely)

Slopoke

Well, head down to your local dealer(whether it be honda or acura).
Get copies of the wiring diagrams for obd1(same as the jdm obd2) B series distributor and obd2 B series distributor.

If they can read basic wiring diagrams, they should be able to figure it out.

fastrunner

like I said:<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fastrunner &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Otherwise if you dont have strict emssions in your state you can use an obd2 to obd1 conversion harness along with the 1 peice engine harness from a honda civc EX coupe(97 I think). This will rule out your crank sensor problem.

But your shop sounds like they are a bunch of morons. The cheapest route is the splice to the distributor, the expensive route but the best one for future mods is the harness and adapter harness change over.

Goodluck, hope you aren't paying for these guys to stick their thumb up their ***.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

fastrunner

oh and annoy95ex, GTFO! Stop trying to boost your posts with crap like that, obviously the shop sucks.

janarki

OK so the local dealer was of no help what so ever. They denied having the wiring diagrams for the distributor on either obd1 or obd2. I may call back and try to talk with someone who has a little more knowledge.

I'm going to get up with the shop soon and see what color wires they see and that might help out a bit.


Also, I just found this https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1029958&page=1
so instead should I be splicing on the ecu side... and wire C1 to C4, then C11 to C14??



Modified by janarki at 1:47 PM 1/6/2006

Boostmachines

If you're looking for in-depth wiring diagrams, I know that HondaHookup has a crap load of them. I needed one to rewire my 93 LX power windows and found a manual in .PDF format. It's worth taking a look.

9WON4

why didnt you go to rpm??