gots_a_sol

someone asked me today this question...im having a shop install a jdm b18c type-r engine, how can i make sure he doesnt scam me and just throw in a jdm gsr engine but charge me for a type-r?

all i could think of at the time was the pretty red valve cover, but that could be switched

so is there any 100% way to tell which is which?

Wicker Man

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I thought the intake manifold on the GSR is curved over then loops to the main body while the Type-R looks like a normal straight intake manifold. I don't have pics at the time but maybe someone else can correct me if I am wrong or show pictures to support me. That is all I can think of at this point.

Luserkid

Check the manifold, Type R and GSR are completely different.

Then if the Manifold looks like a type R and not a GSR look at the stamp, if it says B18C then its a type R

But it could be a GSR with a SI head, then you read the head (next to the header ports youll see a stamp saying P72 (GSR) or P73 (type R?)) If you see a PR3 thats a Si head, so is a P30 i think.




Not the best pic but its the first thing i have avalible, but if you could see the IM it curves down, thats a GSR.

B18C5-EH2

Tom to the rescue:

Ways to I.D an Integra Type R engine:

1.



That's an easy one to pull off though.

2.



Difficult to pull off. If someone went through the trouble to put a B16A PR3 head on a GS-R block, then again it can be faked, but unlikely.

3.



Can be faked, but again unlikely if you have the above as well.

4.



Some JDM GS-R/SiR-G /integras had an optional LSD. Again if you see this along woth 1-3 you've probably got the Type R.

5.



Also look for an LSD stamp. It probably won;t say "J4D" as well. I *think* this is a USDM ITR thing. Now if you see #4, but no stamp do not be alarmed. My old ITR tranny's stamp washed off with Simple Green and a pressure washer, but I assure you it was in fact an LSD ITR tranny.

Luserkid

So a PR3 head is also a Type R head? I thought Type R was snapped different. Like the one in the pic, because its has a 2 wouldnt that be a SI head? B16A2? Im probably wrong though, please correct me.

B18C5-EH2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Luserkid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So a PR3 head is also a Type R head? I thought Type R was snapped different. Like the one in the pic, because its has a 2 wouldnt that be a SI head? B16A2? Im probably wrong though, please correct me. </TD></TR></TABLE>

That head pictured is my 1998 USDM Integra Type R B18C5 head.

I've also got a 1999 B16A2 in the driveway - I'll look at that head code tomorrow and snap a pic and post it up too.

The Internet Tough Guy

any b16 from 89-01 will have the pr3 stamp and so will 96 and newer itr heads, because they share the same casting. the only way you can tell the difference is to look for a green marking on the back side of the head on the distributor side. if the green marking is there, it's a 96+ itr head. not a lot of people know that, but it's true.

mookie

right on the head too, it should say B18C-5.

Ricey McRicerton

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DaAznKigga &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">right on the head too, it should say B18C-5. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Not if it's from Japan. They are all stamped B18C

B18C5-EH2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DaAznKigga &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">right on the head too, it should say B18C-5. </TD></TR></TABLE>

WTF?

Where on the head will it say "B18C5" buddy? Newsflash!!! B18C5 is a BLOCK code, and since we're talking about JDM Type R engines they will only say B18C with no suffix on the BLOCK.

Here is a pic of the BLOCK code of a USDM Integra Type R engine:




<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jwn7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the only way you can tell the difference is to look for a green marking on the back side of the head on the distributor side. if the green marking is there, it's a 96+ itr head. not a lot of people know that, but it's true.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes I too read that somewhere, but I forgot about that. I'll go see if I can snap a picture of my ITR head and get the marking in a picture.

IS3Fifty

Tom you motor is so absolutely clean, it makes me want to puke.

I've heard about that green mark too, did you find it?

B18C5-EH2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TODAeg6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Tom you motor is so absolutely clean, it makes me want to puke. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks. It's covered in pollen right now because until I get my car cover, I have to park my car in the garage with my hood popped because of our ******* cats.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've heard about that green mark too, did you find it?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Mine doesn't have a definative mark as much as it does some green markings that look almost splattered somewhat.

Luserkid

What exactly is the difference between B16 and ITR heads then? Are they atleast port and polished or somethng on the ITR? Please tell me the cams are different atleast. Thanks.

B18C5-EH2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Luserkid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What exactly is the difference between B16 and ITR heads then? Are they atleast port and polished or somethng on the ITR? Please tell me the cams are different atleast. Thanks. </TD></TR></TABLE>

The actual head casting?

The Type R heads have some mild porting and polishing. Now from what I understand, the earlier heads were done by hand, but then later were actually imporved upon by using a very exact machining process that the president of Spoon said was better on a Best MotoRing video that I saw.

Aside from that the castings are the same.

The components such as valvesprings and valves are better on the ITR too, and the cams are also better.

Would I rather have a stock ITR head or a worked B16A head from the likes of Portflow or Alaniz?

I'd take the worked B16A head over my stock ITR one, thanks.

Luserkid

Ok so the only thing thats the same between the heads is the casting of it. If you take everything out of both heads (valves, cams, etc) then you have the exact same head right?

If i said that right then i understand it and thanks for clearing it up.

badblackhatch

my jdm b16a head is stamped "PR3-4"
its a 2nd gen too
thought that'd it help

kreush33

call me crazy but i thought the block was stamped b18c5 if it was a type R. Also IM's are different then GSR's but the best way to make sure hes not scamming you is to find out where he's getting the motor from. And talk to that place if possible

The Internet Tough Guy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Luserkid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok so the only thing thats the same between the heads is the casting of it. </TD></TR></TABLE>
yup.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Luserkid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you take everything out of both heads (valves, cams, etc) then you have the exact same head right? </TD></TR></TABLE>
yup.

get a b16 bare head with the cam caps, have endyn or rlz or someother head porter do a hell of a good port job, get itr cams / valvetrain (or aftermarket) and you've got a better head than the stock itr for almost the same price. they go for about 1200-1300 right?

Shawn C

iTrader: (1)

ok, time for shawn to clear this up even more:

ITR and B16 heads are exactly the same (as far as the bare piece). I've inspected both, and there is no porting/polishing at ALL, and no 3 angle valve job on a type-r head. i don't care what Mr. Spoon says (not bein a dick tom, you mah dawg). they are numbered from PR3-1 to PR3-4, and any can be on either motor. the only differences, obviously, are the valvetrain/cams. the only true way to tell a B16A head from an ITR head is, as mentioned, the green mark just behind the dizzy on the little flat plate. some have a big green mark, and some (like the one i was working on last night) just have a tiny green dab, but it is there.

As for telling a GS-R from a Type-R, thats really easy, as mentioned above. look at the head casting. P72 is GS-R, PR3-x is Type-R. (P73 is 92-93 gs-r i believe. the P73 head is very similar to a PR3-x casting, some say it flows better). you can also go by the intake manifold style, but they could've used a skunk2 manifold, which is a copy of honda's beautiful ITR piece.

If you bought something that someone put together, as in a JDM B18C gs-r (really SiR-G) block with a PR3-x head on it, you have the basis of a type-r swap, but you need the type-r internals (head and block), since a B18C block is a B18C block, and a PR3-x head is a PR3-x head
-Shawn

xsellxoutx

B18C5-EH2's usdm ITR block



my jdm gsr block w/jdm ITR tranny

i hope for some reason this helps...

beaterdriver

the only way to positively tell if your block is type-r is to take the head off and see what the pistons say....p73 type-r
p72 gsr

mario82686

Its really hard not find the "B18c5"

B_CRUZ!

B18C5 is only available in the US market.

In Japan it just says B18C for the SiR-G(GS-R equivilant) and Type-R